idea.. check and grab new versions..?

idea.. check and grab new versions..?

[Andy Eskilsson]

Why not step up to the big giants, and follow their good example,
symantec has something called liveupdate, a program that connects to
their site and checks for patches/updates and so on.. 

How a bout a similar feature for gnus :-) I always have to look around
a big bit to fund the correct URL.. 

It is probably no must that it installs the new version, but it would
be nice if it could fetch on demand the latest beta, or release.. 

	/Andy

-- 
 Hi I am an alien .sig, and at the moment I am having sex to your
 mind, by looking at your smile I can see that you like it.

 Unsolicited commercial email is subject to an archival fee of $400.
 See <http://www.fukt.hk-r.se/~flognat/mail/> for more info.

Re: idea.. check and grab new versions..?

[Lars Balker Rasmussen]

Andy Eskilsson <flognat@fukt.hk-r.se> writes:
> How a bout a similar feature for gnus :-) I always have to look around
> a big bit to fund the correct URL.. 

What's wrong with:

alias gr 'lynx -source http://www.ifi.uio.no/~larsi/rgnus.tar.gz > rgnus.tgz'

? ;-)

But yeah, gnus-get-newer-if-older would be cool.
-- 
Lars Balker Rasmussen                   <URL:http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~gnort/>

			     Wind the frog!

Re: idea.. check and grab new versions..?

[Mark Boyns]

Lars Balker Rasmussen <gnort@daimi.aau.dk> writes:

> Andy Eskilsson <flognat@fukt.hk-r.se> writes:
> > How a bout a similar feature for gnus :-) I always have to look around
> > a big bit to fund the correct URL.. 
> 
> What's wrong with:
> 
> alias gr 'lynx -source http://www.ifi.uio.no/~larsi/rgnus.tar.gz > rgnus.tgz'
> 
> ? ;-)
> 
> But yeah, gnus-get-newer-if-older would be cool.

wget -q --timestamping http://www.ifi.uio.no/~larsi/rgnus.tar.gz

Re: idea.. check and grab new versions..?

[visigoth]

Lars Balker Rasmussen <gnort@daimi.aau.dk> writes:

> Andy Eskilsson <flognat@fukt.hk-r.se> writes:
> > How a bout a similar feature for gnus :-) I always have to look around
> > a big bit to fund the correct URL.. 

> But yeah, gnus-get-newer-if-older would be cool.

How about something to let you know that your Gnus version is out of
date, with a switch that lets it check either the latest alpha or
latest release version?  Add some sort of "don't tell me again until
there's another new version" / "get it for me" keys you can press when
it tells you.

John.

Re: idea.. check and grab new versions..?

[Jan Vroonhof]

Mark Boyns <boyns@sdsu.edu> writes:

> > But yeah, gnus-get-newer-if-older would be cool.
> 
> wget -q --timestamping http://www.ifi.uio.no/~larsi/rgnus.tar.gz

or (I usually wait till the new version is on ding-announce)

#!/bin/sh
# usage "mknew major.minor"
cd /u/scratch/vroonhof/red
wget ftp://ftp.ifi.uio.no/pub/emacs/gnus/rgnus-$1.tar.gz
gtar xzf rgnus-$1.tar.gz
./mknew rgnus-$1
rm texi lisp GNUS-NEWS
ln -s $1/texi texi
ln -s $1/lisp lisp
ln -s $1/GNUS-NEWS GNUS-NEWS

and (is this still needed?)

#!/usr/bin/sh
# usage "mknew directory"
cd $1
make EMACS=xemacs
cd texi
makeinfo gnus.texi
makeinfo gnus-faq.texi
makeinfo message.texi
makeinfo custom.texi
makeinfo widget.texi

Three Hooray's(sp?) for wget:

Hooray! Hooray! Hooray!

Jan

Re: idea.. check and grab new versions..?

[Scott Blachowicz]

Mark Boyns <boyns@sdsu.edu> wrote:

> wget -q --timestamping http://www.ifi.uio.no/~larsi/rgnus.tar.gz

But that's the easy part...the slightly harder part is getting it
extracted and built (e.g. using scripts as posted by Jan Vroonhof).  And,
from what I know, there even harder part is getting it done online so that
you can hit an "update gnus" button in a message online (e.g. Lars'
announcements) that will fire it all of, then "exit" your current gnus
version and fire up the new gnus version while you wait (with bonus points
for getting you back in where you left off - reading the announcement
message :-)).

Speaking of all that...does anyone else use both Emacs & XEmacs (depending
on mood, system, etc)?  For gnus builds I usually do something like this:

    mv lisp lisp-src
    rslink lisp-src lisp-e19            # rslink makes a shadow symlink tree
    rslink lisp-src lisp-xemacs
    ln -s lisp-e19 lisp
    GNU make
    rm lisp
    ln -s lisp-xemacs lisp
    GNU make EMACS=xemacs lick

then I put the appropriate lisp-e19 or lisp-xemacs directory in my
load-path.  Some questions...

1) Do I really need to byte compile them separately?  I've had problems
   using .elc from one emacs in the other in the past.  Currently we're
   using Emacs 19.31-34 (depending on platform) and XEmacs 19.13-14.

2) I don't suppose there's any easy (and unobtrusive) ways to incorporate
   something in the standard distribution to allow for this kind of setup,
   is there?

Scott Blachowicz  Ph: 206/283-8802x240   Mathsoft (Data Analysis Products Div)
                                         1700 Westlake Ave N #500
scott@statsci.com                        Seattle, WA USA   98109
Scott.Blachowicz@seaslug.org

Re: idea.. check and grab new versions..?

[Manoj Srivastava]

Hi,

	If we are into displaying my-auto-gnues-getter, here's my
 entry:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
#! /bin/bash
#                               -*- Mode: Sh -*- 
# mkgnus --- 
# Author           : Manoj Srivastava ( srivasta@tiamat.datasync.com ) 
# Created On       : Wed Nov 20 21:21:29 1996
# Created On Node  : tiamat.datasync.com
# Last Modified By : Manoj Srivastava
# Last Modified On : Wed Nov 20 21:49:03 1996
# Last Machine Used: tiamat.datasync.com
# Update Count     : 8
# Status           : Unknown, Use with caution!
# HISTORY          : 
# Description      : 
# 
# 

set -x
set -e
GETFILE=1;
FILE="/tmp/rgnus.tar.gz";

case $1 in
    -f)
	GETFILE=0;
	if [ "X$2" = "X" ]; then
	    echo The option -f needs an argument;
	    exit 1;
	fi
	FILE=$2;
	if [ ! -f $FILE ]; then
	    echo The argument "$2" for the -f option needs to be a file
	    exit 1;
	fi
	if ! echo $FILE | grep '^/' ; then
	    FILE=`pwd`/"$FILE";
	fi
	shift;
	;;
    *)
	
esac

if [ $GETFILE -gt 0 ]; then
    if [ -f $FILE ]; then
	rm -f "$FILE.sav"
	mv $FILE "$FILE.sav"
    fi
    lynx -dump 'http://www.ifi.uio.no/~larsi/rgnus.tar.gz' > $FILE
fi

cd /usr/local/lib/emacs/site-lisp/
rm -rf gnus rgnus-*
tar zvvfx $FILE
ln -s rgnus-* gnus
cd gnus
make
rm -f $FILE
----------------------------------------------------------------------

	manoj

-- 
 "May your future be limited only by your dreams." Christa McAuliffe
Manoj Srivastava               <url:mailto:srivasta@acm.org>
Mobile, Alabama USA            <url:http://www.datasync.com/%7Esrivasta/>

Re: idea.. check and grab new versions..?

[Shannon F. Stewman]

> But that's the easy part...the slightly harder part is getting it
> extracted and built (e.g. using scripts as posted by Jan Vroonhof).  And,
> from what I know, there even harder part is getting it done online so that
> you can hit an "update gnus" button in a message online (e.g. Lars'
> announcements) that will fire it all of, then "exit" your current gnus
> version and fire up the new gnus version while you wait (with bonus points
> for getting you back in where you left off - reading the announcement
> message :-)).

While I'm aware that this might hit a raw nerve on some people, and might be
considered an extreme folly, why not build some kind of scripting language into
Gnus that would allow something to this effect? Such a language (called ness)
has been used at CMU for some time, and without any serious (that I know of)
harm coming to the script runners.

While elisp does seem a good choice, I doubt it would pass the safety
inspection of the skeptics. Perhaps a small scheme interpreter or otherwise, or
am I just looking at some pie in the sky dream?

Stew
Rant on.
>From the stockade:
The meek shall inherit the earth -- they are too weak to refuse.

Re: idea.. check and grab new versions..?

[Andrew J Cosgriff]

"Scott" == Scott Blachowicz <scott@statsci.com> writes:

Scott> 1) Do I really need to byte compile them separately?  I've had
Scott> problems using .elc from one emacs in the other in the past.
Scott> Currently we're using Emacs 19.31-34 (depending on platform)
Scott> and XEmacs 19.13-14.

I used to build on XEmacs, then it worked ok on that and 19.3x - never
had any problems with it.

Enjoy,
 Andrew
-- 
 - Andrew J. Cosgriff -                  ajc@bing.wattle.id.au    (PGP/MIME ok)
  +61 3 9905 1165 (bh)                   http://www-personal.monash.edu.au/~ajc
     I've got an IDEA!!  Why don't I STARE at you so HARD, you forget your
                           SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER!!
                                        

Re: idea.. check and grab new versions..?

[Shannon F. Stewman]

> >>>>> "Stew" == Shannon F Stewman <stew@fyi.net> writes:
> 
> Stew> While elisp does seem a good choice, I doubt it would pass the
> Stew> safety inspection of the skeptics. Perhaps a small scheme
> Stew> interpreter or otherwise, or am I just looking at some pie in
> Stew> the sky dream?
> 
> huh?
> 
> Reimplement Scheme in Emacs Lisp, just to fetch new software versions?
> 
> I think I'm missing how this would be good.

It would have wider applicability. We might be able to realize the so-called
hype of software agents arriving via mail. The reimplementation part is mainly
to address the concern that any program could be created, even malicious ones,
and there's no easy way to limit the use of certain elisp functions. It's not
an ideal situation, but, then, I wasn't claiming it could be done, just
suggesting it might be an option.

Stew
Rant on.
>From the stockade:
In Christianity, a man may have only one wife.  This is called Monotony.

Re: idea.. check and grab new versions..?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Scott Blachowicz <scott@statsci.com> writes:

> 1) Do I really need to byte compile them separately?  I've had problems
>    using .elc from one emacs in the other in the past.  Currently we're
>    using Emacs 19.31-34 (depending on platform) and XEmacs 19.13-14.

Well -- XEmacs 19.14 is perfectly able to understand files compiled by
Emacs 19.34, but Emacs 19.34 didn't know this, so it puts in code in
the byte-compiled files that bombs out when used by XEmacs.  I've sent
patches to Stallman, and he's installed them.

You should be able to run files compiled with XEmacs 19.14 on Emacs
19.34, though.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen

Re: idea.. check and grab new versions..?

[Justin Sheehy]

>>>>> "Stew" == Shannon F Stewman <stew@fyi.net> writes:

Stew> While elisp does seem a good choice, I doubt it would pass the
Stew> safety inspection of the skeptics. Perhaps a small scheme
Stew> interpreter or otherwise, or am I just looking at some pie in
Stew> the sky dream?

huh?

Reimplement Scheme in Emacs Lisp, just to fetch new software versions?

I think I'm missing how this would be good.

-Justin

Re: idea.. check and grab new versions..?

[Danny Siu]

Scott Blachowicz writes:

  Scott> 1) Do I really need to byte compile them separately?  I've had
  Scott> problems using .elc from one emacs in the other in the past.
  Scott> Currently we're using Emacs 19.31-34 (depending on platform) and
  Scott> XEmacs 19.13-14.

Since I use both XEmacs-19.14 and Emacs-19.34, I byte-compile all my .el
files with XEmacs (make EMACS=xemacs) and never see incompatiability with
Emacs.

-- 
                                                                ^..^
 '/..\"                                                        ( oo )  )~
m( oo )m                                                         ,,  ,,
/=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\
|  Danny Dick-Fung Siu                http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~dsiu |
|  Reference System Group             http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/~dsiu   |
|  Adobe Systems Incorporated       E-Mail:<dsiu@alumni.eecs.berkeley.edu> |
|       "What do you expect from a         <dsiu@leland.stanford.edu>      |
|          Cal. Berkeley grad.?"           <dsiu@adobe.com>                |
\=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/

wget, was [Re: idea.. check and grab new versions..?]

[Jan Vroonhof]

Jan Vroonhof <vroonhof@math.ethz.ch> writes:

> wget ftp://ftp.ifi.uio.no/pub/emacs/gnus/rgnus-$1.tar.gz

Since I got mail from several people asking about wget:

                            Wget README

Wget [formerly known as Geturl] is a freely available network utility
to retrieve files from the World Wide Web using HTTP and FTP, the two
most widely used Internet protocols.  It works non-interactively, thus
enabling work in the background, after having logged off.

The recursive retrieval of HTML pages, as well as FTP sites is
supported -- you can use Wget to make mirrors of archives and home
pages, or traverse the web like a WWW robot (Wget understands
/robots.txt).

Wget works exceedingly well on slow or unstable connections, keeping
getting the document until it is fully retrieved. Re-getting files
from where it left off works on servers (both HTTP and FTP) that
support it. Matching of wildcards and recursive mirroring of
directories are available when retrieving via FTP. Both HTTP and FTP
retrievals can be time-stamped, thus Wget can see if the remote file
has changed since last retrieval and automatically retrieve the new
version if it has.

Wget supports proxy servers, to lighten the network load and to speed
up retrieval. If you are behind a firewall and have the socks library
installed, you can compile wget with support for socks.

Most of the features are configurable, either through command-line
options, or via initialization file .wgetrc.  Wget allows you to
install a global startup file (/usr/local/lib/wgetrc by default) for
site settings.

Wget works under almost all modern Unix variants and, unlike many
other similar utilities, is written entirely in C, thus requiring no
additional software (like perl). As Wget uses the GNU Autoconf, it is
easily built on and ported to other Unix's. Installation procedure is
described in the INSTALL file.

You can get the latest version of wget on:
<URL:ftp://gnjilux.cc.fer.hr/pub/unix/util/wget/wget.tar.gz>.

That directory is mirrored daily at SunSITE Denmark:
<URL:ftp://sunsite.auc.dk/pub/infosystems/wget/>       (ftp), and
<URL:http://sunsite.auc.dk/ftp/pub/infosystems/wget/>  (http)

Wget has its own mailing list at <wget@sunsite.auc.dk>.  To subscribe,
Mail to <wget-request@sunsite.auc.dk> with the word `subscribe' in the
subject.


AUTHOR: Hrvoje Niksic <URL:mailto:hniksic@srce.hr>

The program is being regularly tested on Solaris 2.5, Linux, Ultrix,
OSF, SunOS 4.x (by me), but also on AIX, HPUX, IRIX, FreeBSD, QNX and
others from time to time by other people.


Special thanks to beta testers and other contributors:

- Mark Boyns <boyns@sdsu.edu>
- Darko Budor <dbudor@zems.fer.hr>
- Zlatko Calusic <maverick@fly.cc.fer.hr>
- Kristijan Conkas <chonky@fly.cc.fer.hr>
- Andrew Davison <andrewd@dvp.com.au>
- Aleksandar Erkalovic <aerkalov@student.math.hr>
- Richard Huveneers <richard.huveneers@hacom.nl>
- Marijo Juric <majuric@public.srce.hr>
- Drazen Kacar <dave@fly.cc.fer.hr>
- Goran Kezunovic <kenzo@diana.zems.fer.hr>
- Shawn McHorse <riffraff@txdirect.net>
- Tage Stabell-Kulo <tage@acm.org>
- Hrvoje Lacko <hlacko@fly.cc.fer.hr>
- Mario Mikocevic <mozgy@zems.fer.hr>
- Tomislav Petrovic <tpetrov@fly.cc.fer.hr>
- Andrew Pollock <apollock@bit.net.au>
- Antonio Rosella <Antonio.Rosella@rupia.agip.it>
- Karsten Thygesen <karthy@kom.auc.dk>
- Russell Vincent <vincent@ucthpx.uct.ac.za>
- Bojan Zdrnja <ld@fly.cc.fer.hr>
- Kristijan Zimmer <kzimmer@open.hr>

...and all the others I've forgotten to place on the list!


Copyright (C) 1995,96  Hrvoje Niksic

This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
(at your option) any later version.

This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
GNU General Public License for more details.

You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
Foundation, Inc., 675 Mass Ave, Cambridge, MA 02139, USA.

Re: idea.. check and grab new versions..?

[William M. Perry]

Shannon F. Stewman writes:

>> But that's the easy part...the slightly harder part is getting it
>> extracted and built (e.g. using scripts as posted by Jan Vroonhof).
>> And, from what I know, there even harder part is getting it done online
>> so that you can hit an "update gnus" button in a message online
>> (e.g. Lars' announcements) that will fire it all of, then "exit" your
>> current gnus version and fire up the new gnus version while you wait
>> (with bonus points for getting you back in where you left off - reading
>> the announcement message :-)).
>
>While I'm aware that this might hit a raw nerve on some people, and might
>be considered an extreme folly, why not build some kind of scripting
>language into Gnus that would allow something to this effect? Such a
>language (called ness) has been used at CMU for some time, and without any
>serious (that I know of) harm coming to the script runners.
>
>While elisp does seem a good choice, I doubt it would pass the safety
>inspection of the skeptics. Perhaps a small scheme interpreter or
>otherwise, or am I just looking at some pie in the sky dream?

  This should really be in the raw lisp interpreter.  It should be able to
have a 'safe' mode, similar to the Safe module in Perl, or the restricted
VM in java, etc.

  You take too much of a performance penalty when trying to implement
something like this in lisp.  Ask me, I tried. :)

  I've done something similar for the DSSSL parser I have for Emacs-W3.
Basically, parsing is a snap, but then when you get down to the nitty
gritty of evaluation, things bog down.  I keep the variables and function
defs in a big hashtable thats passed around in the interpreter.  Code
basically looks like:

(defun dsssl-eval (form)
  ;; We expect to have a 'defines' and 'units' hashtable floating around
  ;; from higher up the call stack.
  (declare (special defines units))
  (cond
   ((consp form)			; A function call
    (let ((func (car form))
	  (args (cdr form)))
      (case func
	(cons
	 (dsssl-check-args args 2)
	 (cons (dsssl-eval (pop args)) (dsssl-eval (pop args))))
	(cdr
.
.
.

  Which goes on for about 300 lines.  And its not even half finished, for a
limited implementation of a scheme-like language.  Function calls and let
bindings are a bitch.  But I think I'll be able to do lexical scoping and
closures.  Ohhhhhh yeah.

-Bill P.