Spurious "no such group" question following `B c'

Spurious "no such group" question following `B c'

[Hrvoje Niksic]

I have two nnml groups where I archive "interesting" messages
encountered in email and Usenet.  The groups are located on a special
`save' nnml server, customized to save the files to a directory out of
the normal mail hierarchy.

The saving method is simple: I simply press `B c nnml+save:news-stuff
RET' (or :mail-stuff if it's a mail message).  Until recently, this
works flawlessly.  However, after upgrade to 5.8.6 or thereabouts,
this results in the following question:

    No such group: nnml+save:news-stuff.  Create it? (y or n)

Daunted by the question, I press C-g, go to the group buffer, find the
group, and press M-g.  The group is there all right.  I return to the
summary buffer I was in, press `B c ...' again, and everything works
right, no questions asked.

Any ideas what might be going wrong?

Re: Spurious "no such group" question following `B c'

[Simon Josefsson]

Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@iskon.hr> writes:

> I have two nnml groups where I archive "interesting" messages
> encountered in email and Usenet.  The groups are located on a special
> `save' nnml server, customized to save the files to a directory out of
> the normal mail hierarchy.
> 
> The saving method is simple: I simply press `B c nnml+save:news-stuff
> RET' (or :mail-stuff if it's a mail message).  Until recently, this
> works flawlessly.  However, after upgrade to 5.8.6 or thereabouts,
> this results in the following question:
> 
>     No such group: nnml+save:news-stuff.  Create it? (y or n)
> 
> Daunted by the question, I press C-g

Could you enable debug-on-error and mail the backtrace?

It's probably my patch from 2000-03-01 that's causing this.  You could
see if 5.8.4 work.

Hm.  I think I know what causes it, but the theory would only be
correct if your nnml+save:news-stuff group is a foreign group.  Is it?

Re: Spurious "no such group" question following `B c'

[Didier Verna]

Simon Josefsson <jas@pdc.kth.se> wrote:

> Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@iskon.hr> writes:
> 
> > I have two nnml groups where I archive "interesting" messages
> > encountered in email and Usenet.  The groups are located on a special
> > `save' nnml server, customized to save the files to a directory out of
> > the normal mail hierarchy.
> > 
> > The saving method is simple: I simply press `B c nnml+save:news-stuff
> > RET' (or :mail-stuff if it's a mail message).  Until recently, this
> > works flawlessly.  However, after upgrade to 5.8.6 or thereabouts,
> > this results in the following question:
> > 
> >     No such group: nnml+save:news-stuff.  Create it? (y or n)
> > 
> > Daunted by the question, I press C-g
> 
> Could you enable debug-on-error and mail the backtrace?
> 
> It's probably my patch from 2000-03-01 that's causing this.  You could
> see if 5.8.4 work.
> 
> Hm.  I think I know what causes it, but the theory would only be
> correct if your nnml+save:news-stuff group is a foreign group.  Is it?

        Recently, I started to get a similar behavior, but I'm not sure if
it's related. Just, it looks like something close: when I start Gnus (I use
Topic mode), I normaly get new mails, but no news for any secondary news
server. I then type `L' which forces displaying all groups, and discover that
these news groups have a star instead of the number of articles in their group
buffer line. I then type `g' again, and this time get the news.


-- 
    /     /   _   _       Didier Verna        http://www.inf.enst.fr/~verna/
 - / / - / / /_/ /        EPITA / LRDE         mailto:didier@lrde.epita.fr
/_/ / /_/ / /__ /      14-16 rue Voltaire        Tel. +33 (1) 44 08 01 77
                   94276 Kremlin-Bicêtre cedex   Fax. +33 (1) 44 08 01 99

Re: Spurious "no such group" question following `B c'

[Hrvoje Niksic]

Simon Josefsson <jas@pdc.kth.se> writes:

> Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@iskon.hr> writes:
> 
> > I have two nnml groups where I archive "interesting" messages
> > encountered in email and Usenet.  The groups are located on a special
> > `save' nnml server, customized to save the files to a directory out of
> > the normal mail hierarchy.
> > 
> > The saving method is simple: I simply press `B c nnml+save:news-stuff
> > RET' (or :mail-stuff if it's a mail message).  Until recently, this
> > works flawlessly.  However, after upgrade to 5.8.6 or thereabouts,
> > this results in the following question:
> > 
> >     No such group: nnml+save:news-stuff.  Create it? (y or n)
> > 
> > Daunted by the question, I press C-g
> 
> Could you enable debug-on-error and mail the backtrace?

I assume you mean `debug-on-quit' here.  Sure, I can do that, but the
result is not very useful:

Signaling: (quit)
  signal(quit nil)
  y-or-n-p-minibuf("No such group: nnml+save:news-stuff.  Create it? ")
  y-or-n-p("No such group: nnml+save:news-stuff.  Create it? ")
  gnus-y-or-n-p("No such group: nnml+save:news-stuff.  Create it? ")
  gnus-read-move-group-name("Copy" nil (21610) "nnml:")
  gnus-summary-move-article(nil nil nil copy)
  gnus-summary-copy-article(nil)
  call-interactively(gnus-summary-copy-article)

It gets a bit less lame if I load the `gnus-sum' source uncompiled:

Signaling: (quit)
  signal(quit nil)
  y-or-n-p-minibuf("No such group: nnml+save:news-stuff.  Create it? ")
  y-or-n-p("No such group: nnml+save:news-stuff.  Create it? ")
  gnus-y-or-n-p("No such group: nnml+save:news-stuff.  Create it? ")
  (if (gnus-y-or-n-p (format "No such group: %s.  Create it? " to-newsgroup)) (or (and ... ... ...) (error "Couldn't create group %s" to-newsgroup)))
  (or (gnus-active to-newsgroup) (gnus-activate-group to-newsgroup nil nil to-method) (if (gnus-y-or-n-p ...) (or ... ...)) (error "No such group: %s" to-newsgroup))
  (progn (if (or ... ...) (setq to-newsgroup default)) (unless to-newsgroup (error "No group name entered")) (or (gnus-active to-newsgroup) (gnus-activate-group to-newsgroup nil nil to-method) (if ... ...) (error "No such group: %s" to-newsgroup)))
  (if to-newsgroup (progn (if ... ...) (unless to-newsgroup ...) (or ... ... ... ...)))
  (when to-newsgroup (if (or ... ...) (setq to-newsgroup default)) (unless to-newsgroup (error "No group name entered")) (or (gnus-active to-newsgroup) (gnus-activate-group to-newsgroup nil nil to-method) (if ... ...) (error "No such group: %s" to-newsgroup)))
  (let* ((split-name ...) (minibuffer-confirm-incomplete nil) (prom ...) (to-newsgroup ...) (to-method ...)) (when to-newsgroup (if ... ...) (unless to-newsgroup ...) (or ... ... ... ...)) to-newsgroup)
  gnus-read-move-group-name("Copy" nil (21610) "nnml:")
  (setq to-newsgroup (gnus-read-move-group-name (cadr ...) (symbol-value ...) articles prefix))
  (progn (setq to-newsgroup (gnus-read-move-group-name ... ... articles prefix)) (set (intern ...) to-newsgroup))
  (if (and (not to-newsgroup) (not select-method)) (progn (setq to-newsgroup ...) (set ... to-newsgroup)))
  (when (and (not to-newsgroup) (not select-method)) (setq to-newsgroup (gnus-read-move-group-name ... ... articles prefix)) (set (intern ...) to-newsgroup))
  (let ((articles ...) (prefix ...) (names ...) (copy-buf ...) art-group to-method new-xref article to-groups) (unless (assq action names) (error "Unknown action %s" action)) (when (and ... ...) (setq to-newsgroup ...) (set ... to-newsgroup)) (setq to-method (or select-method ...)) (unless (gnus-check-backend-function ... ...) (error "%s does not support article copying" ...)) (unless (gnus-check-server to-method) (error "Can't open server %s" ...)) (gnus-message 6 "%s to %s: %s..." (caddr ...) (or ... to-newsgroup) articles) (while articles (setq article ...) (setq art-group ...) (cond ... ... ...) (gnus-summary-remove-process-mark article)) (while to-groups (save-excursion ... ... ...)) (gnus-kill-buffer copy-buf) (gnus-summary-position-point) (gnus-set-mode-line (quote summary)))
  gnus-summary-move-article(nil nil nil copy)
  gnus-summary-copy-article(nil)
  call-interactively(gnus-summary-copy-article)

The really interesting part would be knowing why Gnus data structures
consider the foreign group non-existent until you try to reach it.
This used to not be the case.

> Hm.  I think I know what causes it, but the theory would only be
> correct if your nnml+save:news-stuff group is a foreign group.  Is
> it?

I think it is.  What's the definition of a "foreign" group?  The
`save' thing is obviously not my `gnus-select-method'.

Re: Spurious "no such group" question following `B c'

[Kai Großjohann]

Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@iskon.hr> writes:

> I think it is.  What's the definition of a "foreign" group?  The
> `save' thing is obviously not my `gnus-select-method'.

If it's in gnus-select-method, it's native.
If it's in gnus-secondary-select-methods, it's secondary.
If it's nndraft or something, it's internal.
Else, it's foreign.

kai
-- 
I like BOTH kinds of music.

Re: Spurious "no such group" question following `B c'

[Hrvoje Niksic]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@iskon.hr> writes:
> 
> > I think it is.  What's the definition of a "foreign" group?  The
> > `save' thing is obviously not my `gnus-select-method'.
> 
> If it's in gnus-select-method, it's native.

It's not.

> If it's in gnus-secondary-select-methods, it's secondary.

It's not.

> If it's nndraft or something, it's internal.

It's not.

> Else, it's foreign.

So it's foreign.  QED.  :-)

(Thanks!)

Re: Spurious "no such group" question following `B c'

[Shenghuo ZHU]

Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@iskon.hr> writes:

> I think it is.  What's the definition of a "foreign" group?  The
> `save' thing is obviously not my `gnus-select-method'.

I recall something about foreign groups.  Maybe it helps.

If the info of the group (`G e') looks like 

    ("nnml+save:news-stuff" 3
     nil nil "nnml:save") ,

it could be the reason of weird behavior.

You'd better change it to

    ("nnml+save:news-stuff" 3
     nil nil (nnml "save")) .

If changing helps solve the problem, this is a bug.

Shenghuo

Re: Spurious "no such group" question following `B c'

[Hrvoje Niksic]

Shenghuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes:

> Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@iskon.hr> writes:
> 
> > I think it is.  What's the definition of a "foreign" group?  The
> > `save' thing is obviously not my `gnus-select-method'.
> 
> I recall something about foreign groups.  Maybe it helps.
> 
> If the info of the group (`G e') looks like 
> 
>     ("nnml+save:news-stuff" 3
>      nil nil "nnml:save") ,

You mean `G E', not `G e', right?  (`G e' just gives "save".)  If so,
the info looks like this:

("nnml+save:news-stuff" 5
 ((1 . 447))
 ((save 101 107 110 164 275 399)
  (reply 37 63 65 90 101 130 147 161 165 180 210 221 328 342 368 384 399 418 425))
 "save")

What should I change it to?

Re: Spurious "no such group" question following `B c'

[Shenghuo ZHU]

Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@iskon.hr> writes:

> You mean `G E', not `G e', right?  (`G e' just gives "save".)  If so,
> the info looks like this:

Sorry. A typo.

> ("nnml+save:news-stuff" 5
>  ((1 . 447))
>  ((save 101 107 110 164 275 399)
>   (reply 37 63 65 90 101 130 147 161 165 180 210 221 328 342 368 384 399 418 425))
>  "save")
> 
> What should I change it to?

Put on your asbestos longjohns and change "save" to (nnml "save").

Shenghuo

Re: Spurious "no such group" question following `B c'

[Hrvoje Niksic]

Shenghuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes:

> > ("nnml+save:news-stuff" 5
> >  ((1 . 447))
> >  ((save 101 107 110 164 275 399)
> >   (reply 37 63 65 90 101 130 147 161 165 180 210 221 328 342 368 384 399 418 425))
> >  "save")
> > 
> > What should I change it to?
> 
> Put on your asbestos longjohns and change "save" to (nnml "save").

Didn't help.  The message persisted, and -- even worse -- the group
was inaccessible.  I changed (nnml "save") back to "save", restarted
Gnus, and the group is accessible again.  The old problem persists.

Re: Spurious "no such group" question following `B c'

[Shenghuo ZHU]

Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@iskon.hr> writes:

> Shenghuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes:
> 
> > > ("nnml+save:news-stuff" 5
> > >  ((1 . 447))
> > >  ((save 101 107 110 164 275 399)
> > >   (reply 37 63 65 90 101 130 147 161 165 180 210 221 328 342 368 384 399 418 425))
> > >  "save")
> > > 
> > > What should I change it to?
> > 
> > Put on your asbestos longjohns and change "save" to (nnml "save").
> 
> Didn't help.  The message persisted, and -- even worse -- the group
> was inaccessible.  I changed (nnml "save") back to "save", restarted
> Gnus, and the group is accessible again.  The old problem persists.

What if you put (nnml "save") into gnus-secondary-select-methods.

Shenghuo

Re: Spurious "no such group" question following `B c'

[Hrvoje Niksic]

Shenghuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes:

> What if you put (nnml "save") into gnus-secondary-select-methods.

Bad things happen -- I get a bunch of new groups, actually my normal
nnml mail groups.  I assume that Gnus scans the secondary server for
"new mail" and finds the wrong groups.

Re: Spurious "no such group" question following `B c'

[Shenghuo ZHU]

Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@iskon.hr> writes:

> Shenghuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes:
> 
> > What if you put (nnml "save") into gnus-secondary-select-methods.
> 
> Bad things happen -- I get a bunch of new groups, actually my normal
> nnml mail groups.  I assume that Gnus scans the secondary server for
> "new mail" and finds the wrong groups.

Use (nnml "save" (nnml-get-new-mail nil)).

Shenghuo

Re: Spurious "no such group" question following `B c'

[Simon Josefsson]

Didier Verna <didier@lrde.epita.fr> writes:

> > Hm.  I think I know what causes it, but the theory would only be
> > correct if your nnml+save:news-stuff group is a foreign group.  Is it?
> 
>         Recently, I started to get a similar behavior, but I'm not
> sure if it's related. Just, it looks like something close: when I
> start Gnus (I use Topic mode), I normaly get new mails, but no news
> for any secondary news server. I then type `L' which forces
> displaying all groups, and discover that these news groups have a
> star instead of the number of articles in their group buffer line. I
> then type `g' again, and this time get the news.

I don't think it's related -- the bug I introduced is only triggered
when you try to move, copy, or crosspost articles into groups on
foreign servers.

Re: Spurious "no such group" question following `B c'

[Kai Großjohann]

Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@iskon.hr> writes:

> Shenghuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes:
> 
> > > ("nnml+save:news-stuff" 5
> > >  ((1 . 447))
> > >  ((save 101 107 110 164 275 399)
> > >   (reply 37 63 65 90 101 130 147 161 165 180 210 221 328 342 368 384 399 418 425))
> > >  "save")
> > > 
> > > What should I change it to?
> > 
> > Put on your asbestos longjohns and change "save" to (nnml "save").
> 
> Didn't help.  The message persisted, and -- even worse -- the group
> was inaccessible.  I changed (nnml "save") back to "save", restarted
> Gnus, and the group is accessible again.  The old problem persists.

Change "save" to "nnml:save" (after putting on asbestos longjohns).
What happens?

kai
-- 
I like BOTH kinds of music.

Re: Spurious "no such group" question following `B c'

[François Pinard]

Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@iskon.hr> écrit:
> Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> > If it's nndraft or something, it's internal.

> It's not.

Are you really, _really_ sure it's not "something"? :-)

-- 
François Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard

guessing To's

[Simon Josefsson]

Interesting, when I do a "followup" on Didier's article with headers

From: Didier Verna <didier@lrde.epita.fr>
To: Simon Josefsson <jas@pdc.kth.se>
Cc: Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@iskon.hr>, ding@gnus.org
Mail-Copies-To: never

Gnus insert

To: Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@iskon.hr>
Cc: ding@gnus.org

in the mail buffer, which is sort of confusing (I wasn't addressing
Hrvoje in that article).  Was there a rfc (or something) on the
mail-copies-to field?  Does it say anything about how to handle this
situation?

IMHO it would be less non-intuitive to put the complete Cc content in
the To field, in this case.

Re: guessing To's

[Didier Verna]

Simon Josefsson <jas@pdc.kth.se> wrote:

> Interesting, when I do a "followup" on Didier's article with headers
> 
> From: Didier Verna <didier@lrde.epita.fr>
> To: Simon Josefsson <jas@pdc.kth.se>
> Cc: Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@iskon.hr>, ding@gnus.org
> Mail-Copies-To: never
> 
> Gnus insert
> 
> To: Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@iskon.hr>
> Cc: ding@gnus.org

        That's weird. I should be the only one affected by the Mail-Copies-To
header.


-- 
    /     /   _   _       Didier Verna        http://www.inf.enst.fr/~verna/
 - / / - / / /_/ /        EPITA / LRDE         mailto:didier@lrde.epita.fr
/_/ / /_/ / /__ /      14-16 rue Voltaire        Tel. +33 (1) 44 08 01 77
                   94276 Kremlin-Bicêtre cedex   Fax. +33 (1) 44 08 01 99