Changes in Group/customize

Changes in Group/customize

[Harry Putnam]

Have there been changes in the functions of 'R' and 'F' in mail groups,
in recent releases?  Using the Group Customize to arrange what comes up
in an 'a' initiated message, 'r' initiated message is not working for
all replys in my recently established 'ding' mail group.

Doing a reply 'R' turns up the posters address instead of the groups
address, even though I have set the first two items in customize to the
address of the group.

Only way I can get the group address into the posting is with 'F' and I
only like to use 'wide-reply' very selectively.

I have set the 'broken reply-to both ways with no change in behavior
after a restart.

Going back to 5.6.2 shows the same behavior, checking further here I see
this is true in all my mail groups.

I don't believe this was always the way it worked so either I have
mucked up something recently or have been sending alot of wide replies
unknowingly.  Of course there is a the third possibility that I have
been too dead headed to notice it was always like that.

-- 

Harry Putnam  reader@newsguy.com

Re: Changes in Group/customize

[Justin Sheehy]

Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:

> Have there been changes in the functions of 'R' and 'F' in mail groups,
> in recent releases? 

Not that I know of.

> Using the Group Customize to arrange what comes up in an 'a'
> initiated message,

You haven't mentioned any of the actual parameters that you modified.
I will assume that you mean 'to-address'.

> 'r' initiated message is not working for all replys in my recently
> established 'ding' mail group.

'r' should always address mail to the author of the post, not to a
mailing list.  It should be unaffected by 'to-address'.

> Doing a reply 'R' turns up the posters address instead of the groups
> address, even though I have set the first two items in customize to the
> address of the group.

This is as it should be.  

> Only way I can get the group address into the posting is with 'F' and I
> only like to use 'wide-reply' very selectively.

Why don't you?  Is there a reason?

If you set the 'to-address' parameter to the mailing list's address,
'f' or 'F' will address your followup to the list only, and not to the
author unless you add it explicitly or with 'C-c C-t'.

> I have set the 'broken reply-to both ways with no change in behavior
> after a restart.

I think that you expect 'broken-reply-to' to behave in the opposite
manner that it does.  Or at least a very different way than it does.

Some mailing lists are set up so that all mail sent through them ends
up with a Reply-To header pointing to the list.  This is broken
behavior.  Setting 'broken-reply-to' will instruct Gnus to ignore the
Reply-To header so that replies go to the author of the message
instead of the list.

> Going back to 5.6.2 shows the same behavior, checking further here I see
> this is true in all my mail groups.

Yes.  There is no reason why this behavior would be changed in the
manner that you seem to expect.

The commands run when you press the 'r' and 'R' keys should always
send mail to only the author of the message.  Similarly, the 'f' and
'F' keys should send a message to all of the people that received the
original to which you are replying.  This is how is has always been.

> I don't believe this was always the way it worked so either I have
> mucked up something recently or have been sending alot of wide replies
> unknowingly.  Of course there is a the third possibility that I have
> been too dead headed to notice it was always like that.

I think that you are just very confused. (choice #3)

-- 
Justin Sheehy

In a cloud bones of steel.
  

Re: Changes in Group/customize

[Harry Putnam]

Justin Sheehy <justin@linus.mitre.org> writes:

> 
> > Using the Group Customize to arrange what comes up in an 'a'
> > initiated message,
> 
> You haven't mentioned any of the actual parameters that you modified.
> I will assume that you mean 'to-address'.

Well, a little further along I do say 'the first two item in customize'
which should leave little to doubt.
 
> > 'r' initiated message is not working for all replys in my recently
> > established 'ding' mail group.
> 
> 'r' should always address mail to the author of the post, not to a
> mailing list.  It should be unaffected by 'to-address'.

Oh well, could have swore this used to just bring up the group address.

> > Doing a reply 'R' turns up the posters address instead of the groups
> > address, even though I have set the first two items in customize to the
> > address of the group.
> 
> This is as it should be.  


> > Only way I can get the group address into the posting is with 'F' and I
> > only like to use 'wide-reply' very selectively.
> 
> Why don't you?  Is there a reason?

Well, in my delerium I was under the impression that 'F'sent a message
to both group and author.  I thought a wide reply meant it went to both.
And I see the term wide reply in the messages buffer when I use 'F'.
I feel that in most cases one message is enough and two could be down
right annoying. 

> If you set the 'to-address' parameter to the mailing list's address,
> 'f' or 'F' will address your followup to the list only, and not to the
> author unless you add it explicitly or with 'C-c C-t'.

I thought that only applied to newsgroups, not nnml or other mail
groups.  I thought I recalled seeing this very subject (C-c C-t)
discussed in gnu.emacs.gnus with you as one of the participants
This reply was done with 'F', so lets see if it comes to you and the
group both.

> > I have set the 'broken reply-to both ways with no change in behavior
> > after a restart.
> 
> I think that you expect 'broken-reply-to' to behave in the opposite
> manner that it does.  Or at least a very different way than it does.

Whoa hoss, give a little slack here.  I thought it does just as you
describe but in case I was reading it wrong I tried it both ways, to see
if it would make a difference.  Us illiterate types have to use
hillbilly techniques when they don't understand fully.
 
> Some mailing lists are set up so that all mail sent through them ends
> up with a Reply-To header pointing to the list.  This is broken
> behavior.  Setting 'broken-reply-to' will instruct Gnus to ignore the
> Reply-To header so that replies go to the author of the message
> instead of the list.

I actually prefer the above method but I see your point that "reply-to'
should in fact be able to do what its name says. 
> 
> > I don't believe this was always the way it worked so either I have
> > mucked up something recently or have been sending alot of wide replies
> > unknowingly.  Of course there is a the third possibility that I have
> > been too dead headed to notice it was always like that.

> I think that you are just very confused. (choice #3)
Ok, So 'R' has never been able to bring up the mail group address eh?
Know any good neuro-surgeons that can correct unexpectedly early onset
senility?

> Justin Sheehy
> 
> In a cloud bones of steel.
Justin ^^ what does this mean?  Sounds like it might be describing the
John Hancock building in Chicago on a foggy day.

-- 

Harry Putnam  reader@newsguy.com

Re: Changes in Group/customize

[Aaron M. Ucko]

Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:

> > In a cloud bones of steel.
> Justin ^^ what does this mean?  Sounds like it might be describing the
> John Hancock building in Chicago on a foggy day.

It's the complete text of a poem called "The Bridge."  (I don't
remember the author's name.)

It's also the Gnus motto; see (gnus)Compatibility.

-- 
Aaron M. Ucko, KB1CJC <amu@mit.edu> (finger amu@monk.mit.edu)

Re: Changes in Group/customize

[Justin Sheehy]

Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:

> Well, in my delerium I was under the impression that 'F'sent a message
> to both group and author.  I thought a wide reply meant it went to both.
> And I see the term wide reply in the messages buffer when I use 'F'.
> I feel that in most cases one message is enough and two could be down
> right annoying. 

So do I, and so do many other people.

However, the term 'wide reply' means a reply to all of the people that
read the message.  There is a difference between people and addresses,
so a wide reply does not have to go to all addresses.

> > If you set the 'to-address' parameter to the mailing list's address,
> > 'f' or 'F' will address your followup to the list only, and not to the
> > author unless you add it explicitly or with 'C-c C-t'.
> 
> I thought that only applied to newsgroups, not nnml or other mail
> groups.  I thought I recalled seeing this very subject (C-c C-t)
> discussed in gnu.emacs.gnus with you as one of the participants
> This reply was done with 'F', so lets see if it comes to you and the
> group both.

I will reiterate, with emphasis.

IF YOU SET the 'to-address' parameter, .... to the list only.

If you do not set the 'to-address' parameter, then Gnus does not know
what the list address is, so it will send the message to all addresses
that received the mail.

Since you have set the 'to-address' parameter, Gnus knows the address
and thus just sends to that but not also to my personal address.

If you had pressed 'C-c C-t' while composing the message, my address
would have been added to the To: line.

> > In a cloud bones of steel.

> Justin ^^ what does this mean?  Sounds like it might be describing the
> John Hancock building in Chicago on a foggy day.

It is a poem, "Bridge", by Charles Reznikoff.  It is also the Gnus motto.

-- 
Justin Sheehy

In a cloud bones of steel.