Need suggestions for changing agent's downloadable mark.

Need suggestions for changing agent's downloadable mark.

[Kevin Greiner]

I've noticed a problem with the agent's downloadable mark.  As gnus
currently works, a downloadable mark will persist until either a) the
user manually removes it, or b) the agent successfully downloads the
marked article.

What I've found, by reading my own newsrc file, is that I have a
number of ancient downloadable marks stored in it.  Apparently, I
marked a number of articles as downloadable then changed my mind and
ran catchup on the group.  Now, the server's active range has moved so
I can't get these articles back in the summary buffer to manually
remove the mark.

I could fix this by editing the newsrc file but I'm concerned that any
number of people may have the same unrecognized problem.  What I need
is a process, either manual or automatic, that cleans up the
downloadable marks.

Right now, my best idea is to change downloadable marks to say that
downloadable marks on READ articles will not be stored in the newsrc
file.  This is actually a very simple change to implement and, I
suspect, that it will have minimal impact on users.

Would anyone object to this change?  Better yet, does anyone wish to
propose an alternative solution?

Kevin

Re: Need suggestions for changing agent's downloadable mark.

[Simon Josefsson]

Kevin Greiner <kgreiner@xpediantsolutions.com> writes:

> I've noticed a problem with the agent's downloadable mark.  As gnus
> currently works, a downloadable mark will persist until either a) the
> user manually removes it, or b) the agent successfully downloads the
> marked article.
>
> What I've found, by reading my own newsrc file, is that I have a
> number of ancient downloadable marks stored in it.  Apparently, I
> marked a number of articles as downloadable then changed my mind and
> ran catchup on the group.  Now, the server's active range has moved so
> I can't get these articles back in the summary buffer to manually
> remove the mark.
>
> I could fix this by editing the newsrc file but I'm concerned that any
> number of people may have the same unrecognized problem.  What I need
> is a process, either manual or automatic, that cleans up the
> downloadable marks.
>
> Right now, my best idea is to change downloadable marks to say that
> downloadable marks on READ articles will not be stored in the newsrc
> file.  This is actually a very simple change to implement and, I
> suspect, that it will have minimal impact on users.
>
> Would anyone object to this change?  Better yet, does anyone wish to
> propose an alternative solution?

How about removing downloadable marks on articles that are no longer
within the active range?  IIRC, this is what happens with tick marks
etc on out-of-bounds article numbers.  I'm a bit surprised it doesn't
happen automatically for downloadable marks.  Or perhaps that
behaviour is buggy for all marks now, I'm not sure I would notice if
the flags weren't removed.

Re: Need suggestions for changing agent's downloadable mark.

[Kevin Greiner]

Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:

> Kevin Greiner <kgreiner@xpediantsolutions.com> writes:
>
>> I've noticed a problem with the agent's downloadable mark.  As gnus
>> currently works, a downloadable mark will persist until either a) the
>> user manually removes it, or b) the agent successfully downloads the
>> marked article.
>>
>> What I've found, by reading my own newsrc file, is that I have a
>> number of ancient downloadable marks stored in it.  Apparently, I
>> marked a number of articles as downloadable then changed my mind and
>> ran catchup on the group.  Now, the server's active range has moved so
>> I can't get these articles back in the summary buffer to manually
>> remove the mark.
>>
>> I could fix this by editing the newsrc file but I'm concerned that any
>> number of people may have the same unrecognized problem.  What I need
>> is a process, either manual or automatic, that cleans up the
>> downloadable marks.
>>
>> Right now, my best idea is to change downloadable marks to say that
>> downloadable marks on READ articles will not be stored in the newsrc
>> file.  This is actually a very simple change to implement and, I
>> suspect, that it will have minimal impact on users.
>>
>> Would anyone object to this change?  Better yet, does anyone wish to
>> propose an alternative solution?
>
> How about removing downloadable marks on articles that are no longer
> within the active range?  IIRC, this is what happens with tick marks
> etc on out-of-bounds article numbers.  I'm a bit surprised it doesn't
> happen automatically for downloadable marks.  Or perhaps that
> behaviour is buggy for all marks now, I'm not sure I would notice if
> the flags weren't removed.

Any idea where I could find this functionality? I thought that
gnus-update-marks (gnus-sum.el) would be appropriate as it updates the
info structure but no luck.  The same was true of
gnus-gnus-to-quic-newsrc-format (gnus-start.el).  I think that your
suggestion is reasonable, I just don't know where to start with the
implementation.

Kevin

Re: Need suggestions for changing agent's downloadable mark.

[Simon Josefsson]

Kevin Greiner <kgreiner@xpediantsolutions.com> writes:

> Any idea where I could find this functionality? I thought that
> gnus-update-marks (gnus-sum.el) would be appropriate as it updates the
> info structure but no luck.  The same was true of
> gnus-gnus-to-quic-newsrc-format (gnus-start.el).  I think that your
> suggestion is reasonable, I just don't know where to start with the
> implementation.

gnus-adjust-marked-articles?  I don't understand why it doesn't
already work, though.

Re: Need suggestions for changing agent's downloadable mark.

[Kevin Greiner]

Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:

> Kevin Greiner <kgreiner@xpediantsolutions.com> writes:
>
>> Any idea where I could find this functionality? I thought that
>> gnus-update-marks (gnus-sum.el) would be appropriate as it updates the
>> info structure but no luck.  The same was true of
>> gnus-gnus-to-quic-newsrc-format (gnus-start.el).  I think that your
>> suggestion is reasonable, I just don't know where to start with the
>> implementation.
>
> gnus-adjust-marked-articles?  I don't understand why it doesn't
> already work, though.

Thanks that's it.  The behavior of gnus-adjust-marked-articles is
determined by gnus-article-mark-to-type which returns the result of
looking up gnus-article-special-mark-lists.

gnus-article-special-mark-lists's value is 
((seen range)
 (killed range)
 (bookmark tuple)
 (score tuple))

So, all I need to do is add (download list) or (download range) to it.

Thanks,
Kevin

Re: Need suggestions for changing agent's downloadable mark.

[Simon Josefsson]

Kevin Greiner <kgreiner@xpediantsolutions.com> writes:

> Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:
>
>> Kevin Greiner <kgreiner@xpediantsolutions.com> writes:
>>
>>> Any idea where I could find this functionality? I thought that
>>> gnus-update-marks (gnus-sum.el) would be appropriate as it updates the
>>> info structure but no luck.  The same was true of
>>> gnus-gnus-to-quic-newsrc-format (gnus-start.el).  I think that your
>>> suggestion is reasonable, I just don't know where to start with the
>>> implementation.
>>
>> gnus-adjust-marked-articles?  I don't understand why it doesn't
>> already work, though.
>
> Thanks that's it.  The behavior of gnus-adjust-marked-articles is
> determined by gnus-article-mark-to-type which returns the result of
> looking up gnus-article-special-mark-lists.
>
> gnus-article-special-mark-lists's value is 
> ((seen range)
>  (killed range)
>  (bookmark tuple)
>  (score tuple))
>
> So, all I need to do is add (download list) or (download range) to it.

If download is a list, it shouldn't be added to
gnus-article-special-mark-lists.  Only non-list mark list types should
be added.  See the definition of gnus-article-mark-to-type.

(gnus-article-mark-to-type 'downloadable)
 => list

Re: Need suggestions for changing agent's downloadable mark.

[Kevin Greiner]

Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:

> Kevin Greiner <kgreiner@xpediantsolutions.com> writes:
>
>> Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:
>>
>>> Kevin Greiner <kgreiner@xpediantsolutions.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Any idea where I could find this functionality? I thought that
>>>> gnus-update-marks (gnus-sum.el) would be appropriate as it updates the
>>>> info structure but no luck.  The same was true of
>>>> gnus-gnus-to-quic-newsrc-format (gnus-start.el).  I think that your
>>>> suggestion is reasonable, I just don't know where to start with the
>>>> implementation.
>>>
>>> gnus-adjust-marked-articles?  I don't understand why it doesn't
>>> already work, though.
>>
>> Thanks that's it.  The behavior of gnus-adjust-marked-articles is
>> determined by gnus-article-mark-to-type which returns the result of
>> looking up gnus-article-special-mark-lists.
>>
>> gnus-article-special-mark-lists's value is 
>> ((seen range)
>>  (killed range)
>>  (bookmark tuple)
>>  (score tuple))
>>
>> So, all I need to do is add (download list) or (download range) to it.
>
> If download is a list, it shouldn't be added to
> gnus-article-special-mark-lists.  Only non-list mark list types should
> be added.  See the definition of gnus-article-mark-to-type.
>
> (gnus-article-mark-to-type 'downloadable)
>  => list

Hmmm.  Are lists unsorted or, at least, not sorted by ascending numeric value?

I think that range is better but someone wrapped ALL of the range
logic in a cond block that is only true for the mark seen.  Was that
correct?  Shouldn't we trim killed and bookmark marks as they go outside
of the active range?

Kevin

Re: Need suggestions for changing agent's downloadable mark.

[Simon Josefsson]

Kevin Greiner <kgreiner@xpediantsolutions.com> writes:

> Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:
>
>> Kevin Greiner <kgreiner@xpediantsolutions.com> writes:
>>
>>> Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Kevin Greiner <kgreiner@xpediantsolutions.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Any idea where I could find this functionality? I thought that
>>>>> gnus-update-marks (gnus-sum.el) would be appropriate as it updates the
>>>>> info structure but no luck.  The same was true of
>>>>> gnus-gnus-to-quic-newsrc-format (gnus-start.el).  I think that your
>>>>> suggestion is reasonable, I just don't know where to start with the
>>>>> implementation.
>>>>
>>>> gnus-adjust-marked-articles?  I don't understand why it doesn't
>>>> already work, though.
>>>
>>> Thanks that's it.  The behavior of gnus-adjust-marked-articles is
>>> determined by gnus-article-mark-to-type which returns the result of
>>> looking up gnus-article-special-mark-lists.
>>>
>>> gnus-article-special-mark-lists's value is 
>>> ((seen range)
>>>  (killed range)
>>>  (bookmark tuple)
>>>  (score tuple))
>>>
>>> So, all I need to do is add (download list) or (download range) to it.
>>
>> If download is a list, it shouldn't be added to
>> gnus-article-special-mark-lists.  Only non-list mark list types should
>> be added.  See the definition of gnus-article-mark-to-type.
>>
>> (gnus-article-mark-to-type 'downloadable)
>>  => list
>
> Hmmm.  Are lists unsorted or, at least, not sorted by ascending
> numeric value?

Hm, I'm not sure.  The docstring for the gnus-newsgroup-* variables
does not mention anything about sorting, though.

> I think that range is better but someone wrapped ALL of the range
> logic in a cond block that is only true for the mark seen.  Was that
> correct?  Shouldn't we trim killed and bookmark marks as they go outside
> of the active range?

I'm not sure.  Maybe add another cond case?

Re: Need suggestions for changing agent's downloadable mark.

[Harry Putnam]

Kevin Greiner <kgreiner@xpediantsolutions.com> writes:

> Any idea where I could find this functionality? I thought that
> gnus-update-marks (gnus-sum.el) would be appropriate as it updates the
> info structure but no luck.  The same was true of
> gnus-gnus-to-quic-newsrc-format (gnus-start.el).  I think that your
> suggestion is reasonable, I just don't know where to start with the
> implementation.

Preface:
I hope this might be usefull, but I'm not conversant enough with cvs
to get or know if its even available.

There was a time during `quassia' gnus when messages that had been
expunged off the server would remain under News/agent but the agent
wouldn't know about it.  One might have hundreds of such articles.

The problem was posted and discussed for some time.  Several versions
I think.  But at some point, maybe near the end of quassia gnus.
Lars (and others) fixed that.  I'm pretty sure the code involved
checking the server active list against what was actually in the
directories.  Then recompiling the active list or something similar.

Maybe that situation was enough similar to have some tips for this
one.  My best guess it that it happened after quassia 21 or so.

Re: Need suggestions for changing agent's downloadable mark.

[Kai Grossjohann]

Kevin Greiner <kgreiner@xpediantsolutions.com> writes:

> I could fix this by editing the newsrc file but I'm concerned that any
> number of people may have the same unrecognized problem.  What I need
> is a process, either manual or automatic, that cleans up the
> downloadable marks.

Doesn't the agent already have a feature where it does things with
articles that aren't on the server anymore?  Maybe it deletes NOV
lines for those articles?  It could also remove the downloadable mark
for them.

While it is possible to download read articles, and users *might* wish
to do that, we can be pretty sure that articles that aren't on the
server any more are really not downloadable anymore ;-)

Kai

Re: Need suggestions for changing agent's downloadable mark.

[Kevin Greiner]

Kai Grossjohann <kai@emptydomain.de> writes:

> Kevin Greiner <kgreiner@xpediantsolutions.com> writes:
>
>> I could fix this by editing the newsrc file but I'm concerned that any
>> number of people may have the same unrecognized problem.  What I need
>> is a process, either manual or automatic, that cleans up the
>> downloadable marks.
>
> Doesn't the agent already have a feature where it does things with
> articles that aren't on the server anymore?  Maybe it deletes NOV
> lines for those articles?  It could also remove the downloadable mark
> for them.

I believe that you're thinking of gnus-agent-expire.  It's a
possibility.  I was hoping for something more automatic.

> While it is possible to download read articles, and users *might* wish
> to do that, we can be pretty sure that articles that aren't on the
> server any more are really not downloadable anymore ;-)

Well, I wasn't planning to forbid marking read articles.  Especially
as the agent has a flag for marked newly fetched articles as unread
(that does seem to imply that some people fetch read articles).  What
I was thinking of was a good deal more subtle.  That is, you could
mark a read article in the current gnus session and fetch it, but you
could not mark that read article in this gnus session and then fetch
it in a future gnus session. Hmmm... That's probably sufficiently
subtle that people encountering it would call it a bug.

Kevin