Re: group and method variables still a deep mystery to me

[Simon Josefsson <jas@pdc.kth.se>]

Matt Swift <swift@alum.mit.edu> writes:

>     S> Latest pGnus doesn't store the select method in groups [when
>     S> creating new groups, old groups not affected], it simply store
>     S> a string, such as "nnfolder:archive", which is derefenced to
>     S> the actual select method (from `gnus-secondary-select-methods'
>     S> or similar) when needed.
> 
> I am using today's CVS of pgnus.  I manually expunged all mention of
> all nnmh servers and groups from my .newsrc.eld and restarted gnus.
> `gnus-secondary-select-methods' is nil.  `gnus-select-method' is an
> nntp server. I entered the server buffer and added a server nnmh
> called "mhmail".  i edited it to give it an nnmh-directory.  I entered
> it (from the server buffer still).  I subscribed one of the groups.  I
> quit to the Groups buffer and entered the group to see if it all
> worked OK, which it did.  I quit gnus.  I examined .newsrc.eld:
> 
> gnus-newsrc-alist has a new item:
> ("nnmh+mhmail:acevedo" 3 nil nil (nnmh "mhmail" (nnmh-directory "~/MHMail")))
> 
> gnus-server-alist now has a new item:
> ("mhmail" nnmh "mhmail" (nnmh-directory "~/MHMail"))
> 
> You imply above that a major change has been introduced in the way
> group data is stored, but the behavior I describe seems identical to
> the old behavior, so I don't understand what it is that you say has
> changed.  Can you describe the change in more detail?

My (not very major) change only handle the case where the server is
primary or secondary (ie the "from gnus-secondary-select-methods or
similar" part above), this is not the case for you, and the old
behaviour is still used -- and the old bug which my patch try to solve
is still around.

> When I notice that even you have to resort to `hope' when addressing
> current problems with these complex data structures, it seems to me
> that time spent in preparing an overview at at this level might help
> more than just me.

Oh yes, a document describing all this would be immensely useful.

OTOH perhaps this can also be simplified by removing the low-level
distinction between primary, secondary, foreign etc servers and let
thoose be user-interface selections -- I don't see the need for it to
be anything else. Then there probably wouldn't be a great need for
such a document. Doing that wouldn't be easy though.

> What, for example, are the 5 elements of each item in
> `gnus-newsrc-alist'

>From "Group Info" subsection of the manual:

***
     ("nnml:my.mail" 3 ((1 . 5) 9 (20 . 55))
                     ((tick (15 . 19)) (replied 3 6 (19 . 3)))
                     (nnml "")
                     ((auto-expire . t) (to-address . "ding@gnus.org")))

   The first element is the "group name"--as Gnus knows the group,
anyway.  The second element is the "subscription level", which normally
is a small integer.  (It can also be the "rank", which is a cons cell
where the `car' is the level and the `cdr' is the score.)  The third
element is a list of ranges of read articles.  The fourth element is a
list of lists of article marks of various kinds.  The fifth element is
the select method (or virtual server, if you like).  The sixth element
is a list of "group parameters", which is what this section is about.
***

>  and the 4 elements in `gnus-server-alist'?

If you `cdr' each element in that list you get a select method, so
it's the select method's parameters.