From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/53968 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Simon Josefsson Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: Entering passphrase twice when sending PGP signed message Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:18:53 +0200 Sender: ding-owner@lists.math.uh.edu Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1063624820 24220 80.91.224.253 (15 Sep 2003 11:20:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:20:20 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Hrvoje Niksic Original-X-From: ding-owner+M2508@lists.math.uh.edu Mon Sep 15 13:20:18 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from malifon.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.13]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19yrP0-0002Uh-00 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:20:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.math.uh.edu) by malifon.math.uh.edu with smtp (Exim 3.20 #1) id 19yrNr-00067b-00; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 06:19:07 -0500 Original-Received: from sclp3.sclp.com ([64.157.176.121]) by malifon.math.uh.edu with smtp (Exim 3.20 #1) id 19yrNi-00067T-00 for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Mon, 15 Sep 2003 06:18:58 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 61663 invoked by alias); 15 Sep 2003 11:18:58 -0000 Original-Received: (qmail 61658 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2003 11:18:57 -0000 Original-Received: from 178.230.13.217.in-addr.dgcsystems.net (HELO yxa.extundo.com) (217.13.230.178) by sclp3.sclp.com with SMTP; 15 Sep 2003 11:18:57 -0000 Original-Received: from latte.josefsson.org (yxa.extundo.com [217.13.230.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by yxa.extundo.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8FBIrdk014854 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL); Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:18:54 +0200 Original-To: ding@gnus.org Mail-Copies-To: nobody X-Payment: hashcash 1.2 0:030915:ding@gnus.org:708c0a07a23850c9 X-Hashcash: 0:030915:ding@gnus.org:708c0a07a23850c9 X-Payment: hashcash 1.2 0:030915:hniksic@xemacs.org:30e9b6ce660d9d4c X-Hashcash: 0:030915:hniksic@xemacs.org:30e9b6ce660d9d4c In-Reply-To: (Jesper Harder's message of "Mon, 15 Sep 2003 02:52:55 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.1003 (Gnus v5.10.3) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) Precedence: bulk Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:53968 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general:53968 Jesper Harder writes: > Simon Josefsson writes: > >> Jesper Harder writes: >> >>> Do it like forwarding, i.e. make an option for the default signing >>> method. Without a prefix `C-c C-m s' will use that, otherwise the >>> numeric prefix selects which method to use. >> >> Ah, I like it. I guess the default should be PGP/MIME, and the rest >> perhaps C-u 0 C-c C-m ? for PGP and C-u 1 C-c C-m ? for S/MIME? >> >> OTOH, this is backward incompatible with a released version. > > Yeah, but you could argue that it's better to change it now before > Oort Gnus has been bundled with a released version of Emacs. Yes. And it is not like hitting the old combination would exit emacs, so people would notice and recover. >> OTTH, how do this interact with the menu? IIRC, you can't have the >> menu item contain a key binding if it uses prefixes. > > I don't think we necessarily need menu items for the prefixes -- a > sub-menu which let's you change the default with radio buttons would > be better, IMHO. > > I think it's a great opportunity to simplify and clean up the > crypto-related menu items. We could arrange it like this (which would > make the Attachments menu much less crowded): > > +---------------------------------+ > | Sign (C-c RET s) | > | Encrypt (C-c RET c) | > | Sign Part (C-c RET S) | > | Encrypt Part (C-c RET C) | > | Encrypt/Sign Off (C-c RET C-n) | > | Change Security Method +-----------------------+ > +----------------------------| [x] PGP/MIME | > | [ ] Traditional PGP | > | [ ] S/MIME | > +-----------------------+ While it looks simpler and better, I'm not so sure. A look at my own signed/encrypted communication patterns gives roughly: 50 % PGP 40 % PGP/MIME 10 % S/MIME So I would have a hard time choosing PGP/MIME or PGP as the default, and I would have to change it frequently. And I do use the menubar, since the keybindings are obscure, and entering the MML tag manually is boring. I suspect this is not a corner situation, traditional PGP is still the norm if you want to talk with non-technical savvy people. Although, I could use PGP/MIME as the default and manully change 'pgpmime' to 'pgp' in the MML tag. Hm. Speaking generally: The Gnus menubar are rather long and unfriendly. One almost get the impression that they were designed by putting everything that has a key binding into the menu. Perhaps we could have simplified and user friendly menus (like what you propose) in the top-level menu by default, and an Advanced sub-menu that contains all possible commands. OTOH moving things around is also bad, and placing lots of entries in a submenu can look weird. O well, just an idea.