From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/65862 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: syncing from Emacs to Gnus Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 13:59:44 -0500 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1196708420 14085 80.91.229.12 (3 Dec 2007 19:00:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:00:20 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rgm@gnu.org, ding@gnus.org, Reiner.Steib@gmx.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: ding-owner+M14357@lists.math.uh.edu Mon Dec 03 20:00:28 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ding-account@gmane.org Original-Received: from util0.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.18]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IzGWp-00077f-B9 for ding-account@gmane.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 20:00:27 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.math.uh.edu) by util0.math.uh.edu with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1IzGWO-0000bJ-FH; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 13:00:00 -0600 Original-Received: from mx1.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.32]) by util0.math.uh.edu with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1IzGWN-0000b6-Ab for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 12:59:59 -0600 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]) by mx1.math.uh.edu with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IzGWH-0005ha-3i for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 12:59:59 -0600 Original-Received: from mercure.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.24.67]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1IzGWD-00076V-00 for ; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:59:50 +0100 Original-Received: from hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca (hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.50]) by mercure.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E54E2CF701; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 13:59:50 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from faina.iro.umontreal.ca (faina.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.26.177]) by hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id A92AF3FE2; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 13:59:44 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: by faina.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 8F4196C7F9; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 13:59:44 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Mon, 03 Dec 2007 13:43:11 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-DIRO-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-DIRO-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-DIRO-MailScanner-SpamCheck: n'est pas un polluriel, SpamAssassin (score=-2.82, requis 5, autolearn=not spam, ALL_TRUSTED -2.82) X-DIRO-MailScanner-From: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) List-ID: Precedence: bulk Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:65862 gmane.emacs.devel:84588 Archived-At: >> Gnus depends on lots of files in Emacs. These are just like the >> others -- general purpose facilities (we moved them BECAUSE they are >> general purpose) which Gnus happens to use. They should NEVER have >> been included in Gnus. > In many/most cases they were written specifically for Gnus, so I cannot > agree with the above. > Perhaps a few of them seemed to be special-purpose for Gnus when first > installed. But some of them were clearly always general-purpose > facilities. Those should be installed in Emacs as ordinary parts of > Emacs, after a suitable discussion here. We should discuss the > right design for them, just as we would if some other part of Emacs > had been the motive for writing them. As I said, many/most of those packages were written specifically for Gnus. I.e. if it weren't for Gnus they wouldn't exist. The fact that the author was careful to try and make it generic, expecting potential uses in other packages, doesn't change anything to it. If we force those packages to first be put into acceptable shape for Gnus, then people may prefer to just make those packages Gnus-specific (even artificially so, if needed), so they don't have to satisfy the Emacs community but only the Gnus maintainers. Over time, those packages may/will find uses in other packages and will start to take a life or their own, and separate from Gnus, but we should let this process take its time, rather than force it. Stefan