From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/80267 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: smtp crap Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 17:38:00 -0400 Message-ID: References: <8739f4kzp3.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87ipo0p1bc.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <58C87CB9F44943A7BBE78F2D6B62A850@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1318282693 21928 80.91.229.12 (10 Oct 2011 21:38:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 21:38:13 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'Chong Yidong' , emacs-devel@gnu.org, ding@gnus.org, 'Miles Bader' To: "Drew Adams" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 10 23:38:09 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RDNY0-0001b7-9x for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Oct 2011 23:38:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50001 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RDNXz-000254-IG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Oct 2011 17:38:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:48848) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RDNXw-00024z-GG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Oct 2011 17:38:05 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RDNXv-0001MK-CL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Oct 2011 17:38:04 -0400 Original-Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:22136 helo=ironport2-out.pppoe.ca) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RDNXv-0001M9-8w; Mon, 10 Oct 2011 17:38:03 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EAEFlk05FxJoX/2dsb2JhbABDqCWBBoFTAQEEAVYjBQsLNBIUGA0kLodjuUmDHoQlBKEghEU X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.68,519,1312171200"; d="scan'208";a="140970529" Original-Received: from 69-196-154-23.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO ceviche.home) ([69.196.154.23]) by ironport2-out.pppoe.ca with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 10 Oct 2011 17:38:01 -0400 Original-Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 10EF966E9F; Mon, 10 Oct 2011 17:38:01 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <58C87CB9F44943A7BBE78F2D6B62A850@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 7 Oct 2011 23:17:35 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.90 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 206.248.154.181 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:144824 gmane.emacs.gnus.general:80267 Archived-At: >> > Why does emacs _keep_ asking me if I want to "Set up Emacs >> > for sending SMTP mail"?! I kept answer "n" to this question >> I can't reproduce this. The first time I answer "n", it customizes >> send-mail-function and saves that variable to the init file. This >> should prevent the question from recurring. Could you try to >> figure out what's causing that to fail? > Even if it works flawlessly, this "feature" should _not_ be the default. As long as we don't have a better solution, yes it should be the default. And for Emacs-24 we won't have a better solution so it will be the default. mailclient-send-it is not a satisfactory solution, it's a workaround. > In particular, it is ridiculous that a user trying to send a simple bug report > with `emacs -Q' has to run through the extra hurdle of this inane, possibly > confusing, and error-prone dialog ("yes"; edit the `From' line; "n"). I cannot > believe this silliness has gone on this long already. Editing the From is indeed a bug that we have to fix before the release. Maybe you could submit a patch for it? > Nowadays especially, users already have email configured on whatever devices > they use. Yes, e.g. configured on Emacs. > Why are we going backward, not forward? Why is it suddenly important for every > user to be interrogated (even once!) about configuring email for Emacs? (How > did we get by all these years without this annoyance?) We got by all these years because both SMTP and /usr/sbin/sendmail actually used to work or fail reliably. Nowadays byzantine errors are the rule for them so we need user input to figure out what to do. Stefan