vote on key strokes for spam.el

vote on key strokes for spam.el

[Ted Zlatanov]

Right now, spam.el uses M-d to mark an article as spam.  Lars
mentioned he would like something even shorter.  He suggested 'y' or
TAB.  I would like to suggest '$' or '-' as well, as those are not
used currently AFAIK.  '$' is nicely mnemonic but requires chording
for the Shift keystroke.  Feel free to make your own suggestions as
well.

Thanks
Ted

Re: vote on key strokes for spam.el

[Jesper Harder]

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> Right now, spam.el uses M-d to mark an article as spam.  Lars
> mentioned he would like something even shorter.  He suggested 'y' or
> TAB.  I would like to suggest '$' or '-' as well, as those are not
> used currently AFAIK.

'-' is used.  Try e.g. `- g' in the summary buffer -- it's easier to
type than `C-u g'.  

'$' might not me easily typeable on international keyboards.

Re: vote on key strokes for spam.el

[Derrell.Lipman]

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> Right now, spam.el uses M-d to mark an article as spam.  Lars
> mentioned he would like something even shorter.  He suggested 'y' or
> TAB.  I would like to suggest '$' or '-' as well, as those are not
> used currently AFAIK.  '$' is nicely mnemonic but requires chording
> for the Shift keystroke.  Feel free to make your own suggestions as
> well.

'\' is currently unused.  It appears to "cross out" the spam, so has some
mnemonic value.

Derrell

Re: vote on key strokes for spam.el

[Jonas Steverud]

Derrell.Lipman@UnwiredUniverse.com writes:

[...]
> '\' is currently unused.

\ can be "hard" to hit on a non-us keyboard, on Swedish Powerbooks
it's Alt-Shift-7 and on all other Swedish keyboards it's Alt Gr-+.

According to the information I have, it is only on american, italian,
icelandic, hebrew and portuguece (spelling?) keyboards that \ is
available as a single keystroke. All other 33 keyboard layouts, which
I have in my booklet from IBM, requires some modifier (usually Alt Gr).
You usually need both hands to hit the combination.


I fully agree with François Pinard.

-- 
(          www.dtek.chalmers.se/~d4jonas/         !     Wei Wu Wei     )
(        Meaning of U2 Lyrics, Roleplaying        !  To Do Without Do  )

Re: vote on key strokes for spam.el

[Martin Thornquist]

[ Jonas Steverud ]

> According to the information I have, it is only on american, italian,
> icelandic, hebrew and portuguece (spelling?) keyboards that \ is
> available as a single keystroke. All other 33 keyboard layouts, which
> I have in my booklet from IBM, requires some modifier (usually Alt Gr).
> You usually need both hands to hit the combination.

On Norwegian keyboards it is a single keystroke, the key between + and
backspace.


Martin
-- 
"An ideal world is left as an exercise to the reader."
                                                 -Paul Graham, On Lisp

Re: vote on key strokes for spam.el

[François Pinard]

[Ted Zlatanov]

> Right now, spam.el uses M-d to mark an article as spam.  Lars mentioned
> he would like something even shorter.  He suggested 'y' or TAB.
> I would like to suggest '$' or '-' as well, as those are not used
> currently AFAIK.  '$' is nicely mnemonic but requires chording for the
> Shift keystroke.  Feel free to make your own suggestions as well.

I still think `M-d' is a better choice, for a few reasons.  The main one
is that `d' (for usual delete) and `M-d' (for delete-as-spam) are quite
related to one another as implying `d'elete.  Another one is that other
tools, and the Graham paper, suggest `d' and `M-d' with similar semantics.

One sure thing is that Gnus evolution is far from complete, and who knows
which Grand New Feature will not pop into existence, into some future,
that would be worth a new simple key or new key prefix.  We should not
let ourselves go into attributing the few precious remaining simple keys
to the last thing we just wrote, however enthusiastic we may be about it.
Still available keys in Gnus Summary keymap should be allocated with much
reluctance.  A feature has to be really, really, I mean really important
and central, before we give it a simple key.

P.S. - A special word about TAB.  This key (like a few others) has a
kind of pre-determined meaning, and should not be randomly attributed to
features, however important they are.  Here, TAB is often associated to
navigation or completion.  Unless an important command at least suggests
such concepts, we should refrain from attributing TAB to it.

One usage for TAB in Gnus Summary, which I installed locally and which is
much and often useful for me, is moving the cursor from the Summary into
the first clickable reference within the article (Gnus already binds TAB
within the Article buffer for cycling over all references in turn, RET
being usable for activating that reference).  However, I do not remember
having suggested it for inclusion in Gnus: as the TAB key is very precious,
I am not so sure that my suggestion would be appropriate.

-- 
François Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard

Using TAB to move to first clickable reference (Was: Re: vote on key strokes for spam.el)

[Niklas Morberg]

pinard@iro.umontreal.ca (François Pinard) writes:

> One usage for TAB in Gnus Summary, which I installed locally
> and which is much and often useful for me, is moving the
> cursor from the Summary into the first clickable reference
> within the article

Would you mind sharing the code you have for this? I just
can't seem to get it right...

Niklas

Re: vote on key strokes for spam.el

[Kai Großjohann]

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> Right now, spam.el uses M-d to mark an article as spam.  Lars
> mentioned he would like something even shorter.  He suggested 'y' or
> TAB.  I would like to suggest '$' or '-' as well, as those are not
> used currently AFAIK.  '$' is nicely mnemonic but requires chording
> for the Shift keystroke.  Feel free to make your own suggestions as
> well.

Please make all the spam functionality available on longer keys,
too.  That way, people don't need to be afraid to override the short
keys.  Maybe the `M s' map is still available.  Then you could add
entries to the `M M' map, following the other entries there.

(For example, I have rebound C-d to do delete rather than to enter a
digest; `A d' will still enter a digest.)

kai
-- 
~/.signature is: umop ap!sdn    (Frank Nobis)

Re: vote on key strokes for spam.el

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Sat, 09 Nov 2002, kai.grossjohann@uni-duisburg.de wrote:
> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
> 
>> Right now, spam.el uses M-d to mark an article as spam.  Lars
>> mentioned he would like something even shorter.  He suggested 'y'
>> or TAB.  I would like to suggest '$' or '-' as well, as those are
>> not used currently AFAIK.  '$' is nicely mnemonic but requires
>> chording for the Shift keystroke.  Feel free to make your own
>> suggestions as well.
> 
> Please make all the spam functionality available on longer keys,
> too.  That way, people don't need to be afraid to override the short
> keys.  Maybe the `M s' map is still available.  Then you could add
> entries to the `M M' map, following the other entries there.

Currently we have:

(gnus-define-keys gnus-summary-mode-map
  "St" spam-bogofilter-score
  "Sx" gnus-summary-mark-as-spam
  "\M-d" gnus-summary-mark-as-spam)

`S t' actually overwrites the normal score trace command, so moving
the long commands to another space would make sense.  I think "M s t"
and "M s x" are a little long, but I'll let people decide it.  I'm OK
either way, since I'll bind them to shorter keys :)

> (For example, I have rebound C-d to do delete rather than to enter a
> digest; `A d' will still enter a digest.)

Me too, I delete more often than I get digests, yet a single-key
delete is dangerous.

Ted

Re: vote on key strokes for spam.el

[Reiner Steib]

On Tue, Nov 12 2002, Ted Zlatanov wrote:

> (gnus-define-keys gnus-summary-mode-map
>   "St" spam-bogofilter-score
>   "Sx" gnus-summary-mark-as-spam
>   "\M-d" gnus-summary-mark-as-spam)
>
> `S t' actually overwrites the normal score trace command, 

`S t'?

,----[ C-h k V t ]
| V t runs the command gnus-score-find-trace
|    which is an interactive compiled Lisp function in `gnus-score'.
| It is bound to V t, <menu-bar> <score> <trace score>.
| (gnus-score-find-trace)
`----

> so moving the long commands to another space would make sense. I
> think "M s t" and "M s x" are a little long, but I'll let people
> decide it. I'm OK either way, since I'll bind them to shorter keys
> :)

Although "M s t" and "M s x" are a little bit long, they are quite
easy to remember. And the user can always define shorter keys when
needed.

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- PGP key available via WWW   http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: vote on key strokes for spam.el

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, 4uce.02.r.steib@gmx.net wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 12 2002, Ted Zlatanov wrote:
> 
>> (gnus-define-keys gnus-summary-mode-map
>>   "St" spam-bogofilter-score
>>   "Sx" gnus-summary-mark-as-spam
>>   "\M-d" gnus-summary-mark-as-spam)
>>
>> `S t' actually overwrites the normal score trace command, 
> 
> `S t'?
> 
> ,----[ C-h k V t ]
> | V t runs the command gnus-score-find-trace
> |    which is an interactive compiled Lisp function in `gnus-score'.
> | It is bound to V t, <menu-bar> <score> <trace score>.
> | (gnus-score-find-trace)
> `----

Oops, I set those up for myself a long time ago, and forgot they were
not the default.

>> so moving the long commands to another space would make sense. I
>> think "M s t" and "M s x" are a little long, but I'll let people
>> decide it. I'm OK either way, since I'll bind them to shorter keys
>> :)
> 
> Although "M s t" and "M s x" are a little bit long, they are quite
> easy to remember. And the user can always define shorter keys when
> needed.

`M s t' and `M s x' were just added to the CVS spam.el

I left `S t' and `S x' in for now.

The manual has been updated with the new commands.

Ted

Re: vote on key strokes for spam.el

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Fri, 08 Nov 2002, tzz@lifelogs.com wrote:
> Right now, spam.el uses M-d to mark an article as spam.  Lars
> mentioned he would like something even shorter.  He suggested 'y' or
> TAB.  I would like to suggest '$' or '-' as well, as those are not
> used currently AFAIK.  '$' is nicely mnemonic but requires chording
> for the Shift keystroke.  Feel free to make your own suggestions as
> well.

Based on feedback, we'll leave the command as M-d, and let users bind
it to something else if they like.

See my other message regarding the longer key commands in spam.el.

Ted