From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/43291 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Harry Putnam Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: What is happening in agentized groups? Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 16:41:22 -0800 Sender: owner-ding@hpc.uh.edu Message-ID: References: <2nsn7pnzy6.fsf@zsh.cs.rochester.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: coloc-standby.netfonds.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1035178408 16839 80.91.224.250 (21 Oct 2002 05:33:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 05:33:28 +0000 (UTC) Return-Path: Original-Received: (qmail 3824 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2002 00:45:24 -0000 Original-Received: from malifon.math.uh.edu (mail@129.7.128.13) by mastaler.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2002 00:45:24 -0000 Original-Received: from sina.hpc.uh.edu ([129.7.128.10] ident=lists) by malifon.math.uh.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.20 #1) id 16fVhq-0006TV-00; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:42:58 -0600 Original-Received: by sina.hpc.uh.edu (TLB v0.09a (1.20 tibbs 1996/10/09 22:03:07)); Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:42:57 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: from sclp3.sclp.com (qmailr@sclp3.sclp.com [209.196.61.66]) by sina.hpc.uh.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA17137 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:42:46 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: (qmail 3735 invoked by alias); 26 Feb 2002 00:42:41 -0000 Original-Received: (qmail 3730 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2002 00:42:39 -0000 Original-Received: from smtp.newsguy.com (HELO newsguy.com) (209.155.56.71) by gnus.org with SMTP; 26 Feb 2002 00:42:39 -0000 Original-Received: from reader.local.lan (adsl-66.51.210.228.dslextreme.com [66.51.210.228]) by newsguy.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA54124 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 16:42:09 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: (from reader@localhost) by reader.local.lan (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1Q0g9925947; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 16:42:09 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: reader.local.lan: reader set sender to reader@newsguy.com using -f Original-To: ding@gnus.org In-Reply-To: (Simon Josefsson's message of "Tue, 26 Feb 2002 00:10:57 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.090006 (Oort Gnus v0.06) Emacs/21.1.80 (i586-pc-linux-gnu) Original-Lines: 66 Precedence: list X-Majordomo: 1.94.jlt7 Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:43291 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general:43291 Simon Josefsson writes: > Harry Putnam writes: > >>> The Agent has a hard coded behaviour not to download read articles. >>> There was a patch that added a new predicate `read' and changed the >>> default predicate from short into (and (not read) short) but I >>> couldn't find a way to make it backwards compatible so I hesitated >>> about commiting it. But I'm not sure if readedness is causing your >>> problem though. >>> >> How can I find out? > > Do you read anything before downloading it into the Agent? Then the > read articles shouldn't be downloaded. Maybe this has changed, but I > don't think so (but I haven't really used the agent much for a while). Oh, yes. I see. Read a few plugged, and see if they get downloaded. My normal routine is to never read when plugged, and almost never go plugged at all. I have the downloads run in batch mode by cron. I don't think reading plugged would be what caused me to have thousands of those summary marker things. Only time I read plugged is by accident, like if I go plugged for some other reason and forget to go back unplugged. >> About that readedness thing; shouldn't the agent just download >> according to predicate and score, not mindfull of readedness. >> One might read a message in plugged mode but still want it >> downloaded. In fact, I would think that would be pretty much the >> norm. I'd prefer the agent not pay attention to what I do when plugged. >> >> At the very least, a predicate of `true' should download everthing, >> regardless. I would think. > > Yes, I think I agree. But that intuition might be counter-obvious if > you consider nntp, where you usually begin by catching up thoose > 50,000+ message before starting to follow a newsgroup. You don't want > the agent to download all the old junk then. My usage wouldn't go like that, but it may not be representative. If I decide to agentize a group, its usally because I want it on disc for searching or the like so in most cases, I'd want all the old junk too. Are there really nntp groups where there could be 50,000 actually on a server? The most I've seen was just under 5,000 on comp.os.linux.misc. At any rate, it couldn't be that hard to have some command that did a onetime only catchup for the agent. But back to this business of the undownloaded entries in summary buffer: I'm not sure I see what the value of that is. In my case it just gives me a huge summary buffer to process if I should happen to enter the group with C-u. ShengHuo says its because they are not in .overview, but I wonder why not. Should they be? It would seem they should with a predicate of true and complete turnover on the nntp server. I'm assuming these `undownloaded' entries are refering to messages actually on the server. Or do they just stay around forever? If they don't actually refer to available messages then I really don't see what the value is with them. How can I diagnose where they are comming from? I keep thinking with a predicate of `true', I shoulld never see them. At least not after a month or so when there will have been a turnover on the nntp server.