Feature request: display group parameter

Feature request: display group parameter

[Wesley.Hardaker]

Background:  

`display'
     Elements that look like `(display . MODE)' says which articles to
     display on entering the group.  Legal values are:

     `all'
          Display all articles, both read and unread.

     `default'
          Display the default visible articles, which normally includes
          unread and ticked articles.

I use 'display all' in a few of my groups, like my inbox for
example...  I want to show read messages as well as new ones, for
somewhat obvious reasons...

What I *don't* want to see though is the Expired articles, because,
well, I've deleted them!  (Granted I don't want them totally gone for
2 weeks just in case..., but I don't want to see them unless I request
it).

Therefore, we need a new MODE parameter, say something like 'current'
or 'pre-expired' or (uhhh...) 'exactly-what-wes-wants' or something to
that effect...  It would of course be 'default' + 'read'...

Wes

Re: Feature request: display group parameter

[James Albert Kanze]

Wesley.Hardaker@sphys.unil.ch writes:

|>  Background:  
|>  
|>  `display'
|>       Elements that look like `(display . MODE)' says which articles to
|>       display on entering the group.  Legal values are:
|>  
|>       `all'
|>            Display all articles, both read and unread.
|>  
|>       `default'
|>            Display the default visible articles, which normally includes
|>            unread and ticked articles.

I'm new to this list: is this a new feature?  I could not find any
reference to it in the manuals, nor with a quick grep over the .el
files.  Also, I tried it, and it doesn't seem to work.  (I am supposing
that the element in question should be a group parameter.)

FWIW: I'm running GNUS 5.3.  If this is not the latest version, what is?

-- 
James Kanze         home:     kanze@gabi-soft.fr        +33 (0)3 88 14 49 00
                    office:   kanze@vx.cit.alcatel.fr   +33 (0)1 69 63 14 54
GABI Software, Sarl., 8 rue des Francs Bourgeois, F-67000 Strasbourg, France
	      -- Conseils en informatique industrielle --

Re: Feature request: display group parameter

[Kai Grossjohann]

>>>>> James Albert Kanze writes:

  James> I'm new to this list: is this a new feature? [...]

As you can infer from the subject "Feature request", it's a feature
that doesn't exist but Wes would like to have.

  James> FWIW: I'm running GNUS 5.3.  If this is not the latest
  James> version, what is?

The newest is Red Gnus, you find files rgnus-0.*.tar.gz at
ftp.ifi.uio.no:/pub/gnus.  Be aware, however, that this is alpha or
beta software and that it might eat your hard disk!  (Including your
mails!)

kai
-- 
I wonder why nobody don't like me,
or is it de fact dat I'm ugly? -- Harry Belafonte

Re: Feature request: display group parameter

[Kai Grossjohann]

>>>>> Kai Grossjohann writes:

  Kai> The newest is Red Gnus, you find files rgnus-0.*.tar.gz at
  Kai> ftp.ifi.uio.no:/pub/gnus. [...]

Argh.  /pub/emacs/gnus, not /pub/gnus.  Sorry,
kai
-- 
I wonder why nobody don't like me,
or is it de fact dat I'm ugly? -- Harry Belafonte

Re: Feature request: display group parameter

[James Albert Kanze]

Kai Grossjohann <grossjohann@charly.informatik.uni-dortmund.de> writes:

|>  >>>>> James Albert Kanze writes:
|>  
|>    James> I'm new to this list: is this a new feature? [...]
|>  
|>  As you can infer from the subject "Feature request", it's a feature
|>  that doesn't exist but Wes would like to have.

Sorry, I interpreted the "feature request" to be an extension of an
existing feature: more modes for the display option.

|>    James> FWIW: I'm running GNUS 5.3.  If this is not the latest
|>    James> version, what is?
|>  
|>  The newest is Red Gnus, you find files rgnus-0.*.tar.gz at
|>  ftp.ifi.uio.no:/pub/gnus.  Be aware, however, that this is alpha or
|>  beta software and that it might eat your hard disk!  (Including your
|>  mails!)

My elisp skills are not at a level where I would want to tackle a beta
release yet.

-- 
James Kanze         home:     kanze@gabi-soft.fr        +33 (0)3 88 14 49 00
                    office:   kanze@vx.cit.alcatel.fr   +33 (0)1 69 63 14 54
GABI Software, Sarl., 8 rue des Francs Bourgeois, F-67000 Strasbourg, France
	      -- Conseils en informatique industrielle --

Re: Feature request: display group parameter

[Colin Rafferty]

James Albert Kanze writes:
> Kai Grossjohann <grossjohann@charly.informatik.uni-dortmund.de> writes:
> |>  >>>>> James Albert Kanze writes:

> |>    James> I'm new to this list: is this a new feature? [...]
> |>  
> |>  As you can infer from the subject "Feature request", it's a feature
> |>  that doesn't exist but Wes would like to have.

> Sorry, I interpreted the "feature request" to be an extension of an
> existing feature: more modes for the display option.

Actually, the `display' parameter is implemented in Red Gnus.  The only
valid values are `all' and `default'.  The value `exactly-what-wes-wants'
is an unimplemented request.

> |>    James> FWIW: I'm running GNUS 5.3.  If this is not the latest
> |>    James> version, what is?

> |>  The newest is Red Gnus, you find files rgnus-0.*.tar.gz at
> |>  ftp.ifi.uio.no:/pub/gnus.  Be aware, however, that this is alpha or
> |>  beta software and that it might eat your hard disk!  (Including your
> |>  mails!)

> My elisp skills are not at a level where I would want to tackle a beta
> release yet.

You could just do what I do: wait a couple of days before you download
the latest version.  That way, you can be pretty certain that your are
getting a beta version rather than an alpha one.

Also, just leave `nnmail-delete-incoming' set to nil, and you probably
won't lose any mail ever.

-- Colin

ps. You will be amazed at how well adaptive scoring helps keep out the
    clutter on comp.lang.c++.

Re: Feature request: display group parameter

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Wesley.Hardaker@sphys.unil.ch writes:

> What I *don't* want to see though is the Expired articles, because,
> well, I've deleted them!  (Granted I don't want them totally gone for
> 2 weeks just in case..., but I don't want to see them unless I request
> it).

You could limit the summaries to articles that don't have the "E" mark
in some summary hook?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen

Re: Feature request: display group parameter

[Wesley.Hardaker]

>>>>> "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:

Wes> Wesley.Hardaker@sphys.unil.ch writes: 
Wes> What I *don't* want to see
Wes> though is the Expired articles, because, well, I've deleted them!
Wes> (Granted I don't want them totally gone for 2 weeks just in
Wes> case..., but I don't want to see them unless I request it).

Lars> You could limit the summaries to articles that don't have the
Lars> "E" mark in some summary hook?

So, how would you go about this in the group params:

((dummy (progn (make-buffer-local gnus-summary-display-hook)
               (add-hook 'gnus-summary-display-hook 'limit-me-damn-it))))

Or is there a better way...  Possibly:

((gnus-summary-display-hook (progn 
		(add-hook 'gnus-summary-display-hook 'limit-me-damn-it)
                gnus-summary-display-hook)))

[ add-hook doesn't specify a return value? (docs don't mentiond it) ]

Hmmm...

Wes

Re: Feature request: display group parameter

[Per Abrahamsen]

>>>>> "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:

Lars> You could limit the summaries to articles that don't have the
Lars> "E" mark in some summary hook?

>>>>> "WH" == Wesley Hardaker <Wesley.Hardaker@sphys.unil.ch> writes:

WH> So, how would you go about this in the group params:

I guess the idea was that you did a string-match in
gnus-newsgroup-name inside the hook function, instead of playing with
the group parameters.

Re: Feature request: display group parameter

[Wesley.Hardaker]

>>>>> "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:

Lars> You could limit the summaries to articles that don't have the
Lars> "E" mark in some summary hook?

>>>>> "Per" == Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk> writes:

Per> I guess the idea was that you did a string-match in
Per> gnus-newsgroup-name inside the hook function, instead of playing
Per> with the group parameters.

Bzzz....  Ack...  Bad...  Noo...  That defeats the purpose of the
group params!  I think it should be modified in the group param
buffer.  That way, you can add other hooks as well on a group
dependent basis.  Its also not inheriantly clear when a user enters
the group params buffer that it has this special case as well.  I
think thats one of the nicest aspects of it.  (actually, it would be
really cool if the comments at the top of the buffer also showed the
topic params you're inheriting as well!)

Am I making any sense?  I really shouldn't read news after drinking my
10:15 coffee...

Wes

Re: Feature request: display group parameter

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Wesley.Hardaker@sphys.unil.ch writes:

> Lars> You could limit the summaries to articles that don't have the
> Lars> "E" mark in some summary hook?
> 
> So, how would you go about this in the group params:
> 
> ((dummy (progn (make-buffer-local gnus-summary-display-hook)
>                (add-hook 'gnus-summary-display-hook 'limit-me-damn-it))))
> 
> Or is there a better way...  Possibly:
> 
> ((gnus-summary-display-hook (progn 
> 		(add-hook 'gnus-summary-display-hook 'limit-me-damn-it)
>                 gnus-summary-display-hook)))

This will modify the global versin of the hook, so that's not good.

...
(gnus-summary-display-hook (limit-me-damn-it))
...

would be ok if you have nothing else in that hook.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen

Re: Feature request: display group parameter

[David Moore]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:

> Wesley.Hardaker@sphys.unil.ch writes:
> 
> > Lars> You could limit the summaries to articles that don't have the
> > Lars> "E" mark in some summary hook?
> > 
> > Or is there a better way...  Possibly:
> > 
> > ((gnus-summary-display-hook (progn 
> > 		(add-hook 'gnus-summary-display-hook 'limit-me-damn-it)
> >                 gnus-summary-display-hook)))
> 
> This will modify the global versin of the hook, so that's not good.
> 
> ...
> (gnus-summary-display-hook (limit-me-damn-it))
> ...

How about:
((gnus-summary-display-hook (cons 'limit-me-damn-it
				  gnus-summary-display-hook)))

Which avoids the side-affect operations of add-hook, or:
((gnus-summary-display-hook gnus-summary-display-hook)
 (dummy (add-hook 'gnus-summary-display-hook 'limit-me-damn-it)))

if you really want to call add-hook.

-- 
David Moore <dmoore@ucsd.edu>       | Computer Systems Lab      __o
UCSD Dept. Computer Science - 0114  | Work: (619) 534-8604    _ \<,_
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114             | Fax:  (619) 534-1445   (_)/ (_)
<URL:http://oj.egbt.org/dmoore/>    | Solo Furnace Creek 508 -- 1996!

Re: Feature request: display group parameter

[David S. Goldberg]

I've never tried it for anything (though this might get me started),
but isn't this sort of thing what make-local-hook is supposed to be
used for?

--
Dave Goldberg
Post: The Mitre Corporation\MS B305\202 Burlington Rd.\Bedford, MA 01730
Phone: 617-271-3887
Email: dsg@mitre.org

Re: Feature request: display group parameter

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

dsg@linus.mitre.org (David S. Goldberg) writes:

> I've never tried it for anything (though this might get me started),
> but isn't this sort of thing what make-local-hook is supposed to be
> used for?

Yes, that could also be used here.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen

Re: Feature request: display group parameter

[Wesley.Hardaker]

>>>>> "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:

Wes> ((gnus-summary-display-hook (progn (add-hook
Wes> 'gnus-summary-display-hook 'limit-me-damn-it)
Wes> gnus-summary-display-hook)))

Lars> This will modify the global versin of the hook, so that's not
Lars> good.

Lars> ... (gnus-summary-display-hook (limit-me-damn-it)) ...

Lars> would be ok if you have nothing else in that hook.

Sigh...  Maybe I'll actually look into implementing something like
(display . (list of marks)) which would be the coolest.  Or even
better (display . (nil list of hidden marks))...  

This would be the best way to go and would be a useful new feature!
For instance, people could do:

(display . (unread *))

to have their display include cached articles if they wanted (I
know...  Why when you have !)

Are we in a feature freeze?  I'm done with a few other projects,
so.......  I have a few, uh, ideas...

Wes

Re: Feature request: display group parameter

[Wesley.Hardaker]

So I just tried this randomly:

(dummy
 (progn
   (make-local-hook 'gnus-summary-prepare-hook)
   (add-hook 'gnus-summary-prepare-hook '(lambda nil
		    (gnus-summary-limit-exclude-marks "E"))))))

Which didn't work...  First off, I think make-local-hook also needs a
call to make-local-variable as well, but I'm not positive...

Anyway, the worse problem is that as far as I can figure this is the
right hook to use, as the others are too early in the summary
generation process and gnus-summary-limit-exclude-marks is expected to
be run after the generation, not before...

What happens is that gnus-summary-limit-exclude-marks gets run and
then the summary buffer gets re-generated and
gnus-summary-prepare-hook gets run once again!  (ie, inf loop).

Wheee...

Wes

Re: Feature request: display group parameter

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Wesley.Hardaker@sphys.unil.ch writes:

> This would be the best way to go and would be a useful new feature!
> For instance, people could do:
> 
> (display . (unread *))

That might be nice.

> Are we in a feature freeze?

Yup.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen

Re: Feature request: display group parameter

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Wesley.Hardaker@sphys.unil.ch writes:

> Which didn't work...  First off, I think make-local-hook also needs a
> call to make-local-variable as well, but I'm not positive...

No, that's not necessary.

> What happens is that gnus-summary-limit-exclude-marks gets run and
> then the summary buffer gets re-generated and
> gnus-summary-prepare-hook gets run once again!  (ie, inf loop).

Uhm, ah.  Yes.  Uhm...  You could remove the expirable articles from
the `gnus-newsgroup-limit' list "by hand".

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen