Feature Freeze/Red Gnus

Feature Freeze/Red Gnus

[Steven L Baur]

Since September Gnus has an incompatible newsrc format with Gnus
5.1/5.0.13, upgrading is one-way.  Since we already have that hit,
I would suggest that you get the newsrc format the way you want it for
September.  I find it fairly annoying right now that I cannot run Gnus
5 out of my own account, and definitely an inhibition to going in and
tracing down bugs in it ...  Either that, or build
forwards-compatibility in -- which could involve nothing more than
doing something useful with the gnus-newsrc-file-version parameter.

Given how functional/outstanding Gnus' e-mail support is, I'd really
like to see the group information about non-nntp groups moved to a
separate file.  I'd also like to see nntp group information divided
into server-specific and server-independent portions.

-- 
steve@miranova.com baur
Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be proofread for $250/hour.

Re: Feature Freeze/Red Gnus

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Steven L Baur <steve@miranova.com> writes:

> Since September Gnus has an incompatible newsrc format with Gnus
> 5.1/5.0.13, upgrading is one-way.  Since we already have that hit,
> I would suggest that you get the newsrc format the way you want it for
> September. 

That change I did was stupid, in a way.  I'll be applying a tiny patch
to Gnus 5.1 to be compatible with the September Gnus newsrc format.
(It's trivial -- it now removes ticked articles that aren't subsets of
the unread articles.  I just have to remove that check from Gnus 5.1.)
Emacs 19.31 will be released soonish, so that should make life easier
for us all...  (I'll also be releasing Gnus 5.0.14 with the same
change.) 

> Given how functional/outstanding Gnus' e-mail support is, I'd really
> like to see the group information about non-nntp groups moved to a
> separate file. 

I'm not sure how much you'd win by doing that.  It'll make it easier
to pack up and move to a different system, but it should be possible
to do that with the nntp groups as well, I think.  (In Red Gnus, I
hope, with some article number->message-id translation thingie to
produce a "portable newsrc file".)

But you can have several .newsrc files.  For instance, my primary
select method at the moment is nnsoup, and the newsrc file it uses is
".newsrc-soup".  When I test nntp, I use ".newsrc-nntp".  (Of course,
the reason I use several newsrc files is so that I can have one "real"
one and several I can mess up all I want while testing.)

> I'd also like to see nntp group information divided into
> server-specific and server-independent portions.

The server-specific information being the article numbers and article
marks, and the server-independent being, well, all the rest?  Levels,
scores, names, and group parameters?

-- 
  "Yes.  The journey through the human heart 
     would have to wait until some other time."

Re: Feature Freeze/Red Gnus

[Steven L Baur]

>>>>> "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:

Lars> Steven L Baur <steve@miranova.com> writes:
>> Given how functional/outstanding Gnus' e-mail support is, I'd really
>> like to see the group information about non-nntp groups moved to a
>> separate file. 

Lars> I'm not sure how much you'd win by doing that.  It'll make it easier
Lars> to pack up and move to a different system, but it should be possible
Lars> to do that with the nntp groups as well, I think.  (In Red Gnus, I
Lars> hope, with some article number->message-id translation thingie to
Lars> produce a "portable newsrc file".)

One thing that's always bothered me about the current format is what
happens if your NNTP server changes its domain name
(ie. clue.callamer.com becomes twizzler.callamer.com)?

Can I just rename .gnusrc-clue.callamer.com* to
.gnusrc-twizzler.callamer.com?  Or better still, can I make a symbolic
link so the two are one and the same?

Lars> But you can have several .newsrc files.  For instance, my primary
Lars> select method at the moment is nnsoup, and the newsrc file it uses is
Lars> ".newsrc-soup".  When I test nntp, I use ".newsrc-nntp".  (Of course,
Lars> the reason I use several newsrc files is so that I can have one "real"
Lars> one and several I can mess up all I want while testing.)

Would it be possible for you to make (and distribute) a developer's
kit with something like this for testing?

>> I'd also like to see nntp group information divided into
>> server-specific and server-independent portions.

Lars> The server-specific information being the article numbers and article
Lars> marks, and the server-independent being, well, all the rest?  Levels,
Lars> scores, names, and group parameters?

Exactly.  Given how expiration times have gone way down, it is far
less important in moving to a new server knowing what articles you've
already seen, than having all the group setup information preprepared.

-- 
steve@miranova.com baur
Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be proofread for $250/hour.

Re: Feature Freeze/Red Gnus

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Steven L Baur <steve@miranova.com> writes:

> One thing that's always bothered me about the current format is what
> happens if your NNTP server changes its domain name
> (ie. clue.callamer.com becomes twizzler.callamer.com)?
> 
> Can I just rename .gnusrc-clue.callamer.com* to
> .gnusrc-twizzler.callamer.com?  Or better still, can I make a symbolic
> link so the two are one and the same?

Yes, I think doing either would be unproblematic.  (But I think you
mean ".newsrc-*" and not ".gnusrc-*" :-)

> Would it be possible for you to make (and distribute) a developer's
> kit with something like this for testing?

Yes.  But it's too much work.  So, no.  :-(

> Lars> The server-specific information being the article numbers and article
> Lars> marks, and the server-independent being, well, all the rest?  Levels,
> Lars> scores, names, and group parameters?
> 
> Exactly.  Given how expiration times have gone way down, it is far
> less important in moving to a new server knowing what articles you've
> already seen, than having all the group setup information preprepared.

Yes.  I'd hate to have to recreate all my to-address params, virtual
server definitions, etc, if I had to move.  Perhaps there should be a
command for generating a "clean" .newsrc?  Remove all the article
number stuff and just have the server-independent things remain?  I've
added that to the Red Gnus todo list.

-- 
  "Yes.  The journey through the human heart 
     would have to wait until some other time."