When I initially reported this problem, I thought it was emacs24 related. It's not. I had the load-path wrong in my ~/.emacs so I wasn't getting nognus, I was getting gnus 5.13 from the Emacs distro. Even with Emacs 23.2.1, if I put nognus-0.13 in my load path, I get Error in ~/.gnus: Recurisve `require' for feature `gnus-sum' during initialization. Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes: > Try putting > > (setq debug-on-error t) > > as the first thing in .emacs. That will hopefully give you a backtrace > that'll tell you what's recursing. Yep. See below. It appears to my untrained eye, that the problem is in gnus-sum and nnir: gnus-sum.el autoloads nnir and nnir requires gnus-sum. I don't think I'm trying to use nnir (it's not mentioned in my .gnus) so I'm not sure why this is only happening to me... Debugger entered--Lisp error: (error "Recursive `require' for feature `gnus-sum'") require(gnus-sum) byte-code("..!...!...!...!...!.....\"..F.B...D B...!....\"." [nnoo-definition-alist nnoo-state-alist require cl nnoo gnus-group gnus-sum gnus-util nnir mapcar #[(p) ".C." [p] 1] nil "*internal-non-initialized-backend*" nnoo-define-basics-1 gnus-declare-backend "nnir" mail] 4) #((nnir-article-rsv (mail-header-number gnus-tmp-header)) nil) macroexpand((nnir-article-rsv (mail-header-number gnus-tmp-header)) nil) macroexpand-all-1((nnir-article-rsv (mail-header-number gnus-tmp-header))) gnus-macroexpand-all((nnir-article-rsv (mail-header-number gnus-tmp-header))) byte-code("...!.BB...!.BB........!.BB...!.BB.....!.BB...!.BB.......!.BB.BB....!.BB.BB....!.BB.BB......................!D.@.BB.&." [78 macroexpand (mail-header-number gnus-tmp-header) (100) 83 (mail-header-subject gnus-tmp-header) (115) (115 gnus-tmp-subject-or-nil 115) (110 gnus-tmp-name 115) (65 (car ...) 115) (97 (or ... gnus-tmp-from) 115) (70 gnus-tmp-from 115) 120 (mail-header-xref gnus-tmp-header) (115) 68 (mail-header-date gnus-tmp-header) (115) (100 (gnus-dd-mmm ...) 115) (111 (gnus-date-iso8601 ...) 115) 77 (mail-header-id gnus-tmp-header) (115) 114 (mail-header-references gnus-tmp-header) (115) (99 (or ... 0) 100) (107 (gnus-summary-line-message-size gnus-tmp-header) 115) (76 gnus-tmp-lines 115) 90 or gnus-macroexpand-all (nnir-article-rsv (mail-header-number gnus-tmp-header)) (0) (100) 71 (nnir-article-group (mail-header-number gnus-tmp-header)) ("") (115) 103 (gnus-group-short-name (nnir-article-group ...)) ("") (115) (79 gnus-tmp-downloaded 99) (73 gnus-tmp-indentation 115) (84 (if ... "" ...) 115) (82 gnus-tmp-replied 99) (91 gnus-tmp-opening-bracket 99) (93 gnus-tmp-closing-bracket 99) (62 (make-string gnus-tmp-level 32) 115) ...] 41) (defvar gnus-summary-line-format-alist (byte-code "...!.BB...!.BB........!.BB...!.BB.....!.BB...!.BB.......!.BB.BB....!.BB.BB....!.BB.BB......................!D.@.BB.&." [78 macroexpand ... ... 83 ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 120 ... ... 68 ... ... ... ... 77 ... ... 114 ... ... ... ... ... 90 or gnus-macroexpand-all ... ... ... 71 ... ... ... 103 ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...] 41) "An alist of format specifications that can appear in summary lines.\nThese are paired with what variables they correspond with, along with\nthe type of the variable (string, integer, character, etc).") require(gnus-sum) byte-code("..!...!...!...!...!.....\"..F.B...D B...!....\"." [nnoo-definition-alist nnoo-state-alist require cl nnoo gnus-group gnus-sum gnus-util nnir mapcar #[(p) ".C." [p] 1] nil "*internal-non-initialized-backend*" nnoo-define-basics-1 gnus-declare-backend "nnir" mail] 4) #((nnir-article-rsv (mail-header-number gnus-tmp-header)) nil) macroexpand((nnir-article-rsv (mail-header-number gnus-tmp-header)) nil) macroexpand-all-1((nnir-article-rsv (mail-header-number gnus-tmp-header))) gnus-macroexpand-all((nnir-article-rsv (mail-header-number gnus-tmp-header))) byte-code("...!.BB...!.BB........!.BB...!.BB.....!.BB...!.BB.......!.BB.BB....!.BB.BB....!.BB.BB......................!D.@.BB.&." [78 macroexpand (mail-header-number gnus-tmp-header) (100) 83 (mail-header-subject gnus-tmp-header) (115) (115 gnus-tmp-subject-or-nil 115) (110 gnus-tmp-name 115) (65 (car ...) 115) (97 (or ... gnus-tmp-from) 115) (70 gnus-tmp-from 115) 120 (mail-header-xref gnus-tmp-header) (115) 68 (mail-header-date gnus-tmp-header) (115) (100 (gnus-dd-mmm ...) 115) (111 (gnus-date-iso8601 ...) 115) 77 (mail-header-id gnus-tmp-header) (115) 114 (mail-header-references gnus-tmp-header) (115) (99 (or ... 0) 100) (107 (gnus-summary-line-message-size gnus-tmp-header) 115) (76 gnus-tmp-lines 115) 90 or gnus-macroexpand-all (nnir-article-rsv (mail-header-number gnus-tmp-header)) (0) (100) 71 (nnir-article-group (mail-header-number gnus-tmp-header)) ("") (115) 103 (gnus-group-short-name (nnir-article-group ...)) ("") (115) (79 gnus-tmp-downloaded 99) (73 gnus-tmp-indentation 115) (84 (if ... "" ...) 115) (82 gnus-tmp-replied 99) (91 gnus-tmp-opening-bracket 99) (93 gnus-tmp-closing-bracket 99) (62 (make-string gnus-tmp-level 32) 115) ...] 41) (defvar gnus-summary-line-format-alist (byte-code "...!.BB...!.BB........!.BB...!.BB.....!.BB...!.BB.......!.BB.BB....!.BB.BB....!.BB.BB......................!D.@.BB.&." [78 macroexpand ... ... 83 ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 120 ... ... 68 ... ... ... ... 77 ... ... 114 ... ... ... ... ... 90 or gnus-macroexpand-all ... ... ... 71 ... ... ... 103 ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...] 41) "An alist of format specifications that can appear in summary lines.\nThese are paired with what variables they correspond with, along with\nthe type of the variable (string, integer, character, etc).") require(gnus-sum) byte-code("..!...!...!...!...!.....\"..F.B...D B...!....\"." [nnoo-definition-alist nnoo-state-alist require cl nnoo gnus-group gnus-sum gnus-util nnir mapcar #[(p) ".C." [p] 1] nil "*internal-non-initialized-backend*" nnoo-define-basics-1 gnus-declare-backend "nnir" mail] 4) #((nnir-article-rsv (mail-header-number gnus-tmp-header)) nil) macroexpand((nnir-article-rsv (mail-header-number gnus-tmp-header)) nil) macroexpand-all-1((nnir-article-rsv (mail-header-number gnus-tmp-header))) gnus-macroexpand-all((nnir-article-rsv (mail-header-number gnus-tmp-header))) byte-code("...!.BB...!.BB........!.BB...!.BB.....!.BB...!.BB.......!.BB.BB....!.BB.BB....!.BB.BB......................!D.@.BB.&." [78 macroexpand (mail-header-number gnus-tmp-header) (100) 83 (mail-header-subject gnus-tmp-header) (115) (115 gnus-tmp-subject-or-nil 115) (110 gnus-tmp-name 115) (65 (car ...) 115) (97 (or ... gnus-tmp-from) 115) (70 gnus-tmp-from 115) 120 (mail-header-xref gnus-tmp-header) (115) 68 (mail-header-date gnus-tmp-header) (115) (100 (gnus-dd-mmm ...) 115) (111 (gnus-date-iso8601 ...) 115) 77 (mail-header-id gnus-tmp-header) (115) 114 (mail-header-references gnus-tmp-header) (115) (99 (or ... 0) 100) (107 (gnus-summary-line-message-size gnus-tmp-header) 115) (76 gnus-tmp-lines 115) 90 or gnus-macroexpand-all (nnir-article-rsv (mail-header-number gnus-tmp-header)) (0) (100) 71 (nnir-article-group (mail-header-number gnus-tmp-header)) ("") (115) 103 (gnus-group-short-name (nnir-article-group ...)) ("") (115) (79 gnus-tmp-downloaded 99) (73 gnus-tmp-indentation 115) (84 (if ... "" ...) 115) (82 gnus-tmp-replied 99) (91 gnus-tmp-opening-bracket 99) (93 gnus-tmp-closing-bracket 99) (62 (make-string gnus-tmp-level 32) 115) ...] 41) (defvar gnus-summary-line-format-alist (byte-code "...!.BB...!.BB........!.BB...!.BB.....!.BB...!.BB.......!.BB.BB....!.BB.BB....!.BB.BB......................!D.@.BB.&." [78 macroexpand ... ... 83 ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 120 ... ... 68 ... ... ... ... 77 ... ... 114 ... ... ... ... ... 90 or gnus-macroexpand-all ... ... ... 71 ... ... ... 103 ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...] 41) "An alist of format specifications that can appear in summary lines.\nThese are paired with what variables they correspond with, along with\nthe type of the variable (string, integer, character, etc).") require(gnus-sum) byte-code("..!...!...!...!...!.....\"..F.B...D B...!....\"." [nnoo-definition-alist nnoo-state-alist require cl nnoo gnus-group gnus-sum gnus-util nnir mapcar #[(p) ".C." [p] 1] nil "*internal-non-initialized-backend*" nnoo-define-basics-1 gnus-declare-backend "nnir" mail] 4) #((nnir-article-rsv (mail-header-number gnus-tmp-header)) nil) macroexpand((nnir-article-rsv (mail-header-number gnus-tmp-header)) nil) macroexpand-all-1((nnir-article-rsv (mail-header-number gnus-tmp-header))) gnus-macroexpand-all((nnir-article-rsv (mail-header-number gnus-tmp-header))) byte-code("...!.BB...!.BB........!.BB...!.BB.....!.BB...!.BB.......!.BB.BB....!.BB.BB....!.BB.BB......................!D.@.BB.&." [78 macroexpand (mail-header-number gnus-tmp-header) (100) 83 (mail-header-subject gnus-tmp-header) (115) (115 gnus-tmp-subject-or-nil 115) (110 gnus-tmp-name 115) (65 (car ...) 115) (97 (or ... gnus-tmp-from) 115) (70 gnus-tmp-from 115) 120 (mail-header-xref gnus-tmp-header) (115) 68 (mail-header-date gnus-tmp-header) (115) (100 (gnus-dd-mmm ...) 115) (111 (gnus-date-iso8601 ...) 115) 77 (mail-header-id gnus-tmp-header) (115) 114 (mail-header-references gnus-tmp-header) (115) (99 (or ... 0) 100) (107 (gnus-summary-line-message-size gnus-tmp-header) 115) (76 gnus-tmp-lines 115) 90 or gnus-macroexpand-all (nnir-article-rsv (mail-header-number gnus-tmp-header)) (0) (100) 71 (nnir-article-group (mail-header-number gnus-tmp-header)) ("") (115) 103 (gnus-group-short-name (nnir-article-group ...)) ("") (115) (79 gnus-tmp-downloaded 99) (73 gnus-tmp-indentation 115) (84 (if ... "" ...) 115) (82 gnus-tmp-replied 99) (91 gnus-tmp-opening-bracket 99) (93 gnus-tmp-closing-bracket 99) (62 (make-string gnus-tmp-level 32) 115) ...] 41) (defvar gnus-summary-line-format-alist (byte-code "...!.BB...!.BB........!.BB...!.BB.....!.BB...!.BB.......!.BB.BB....!.BB.BB....!.BB.BB......................!D.@.BB.&." [78 macroexpand ... ... 83 ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 120 ... ... 68 ... ... ... ... 77 ... ... 114 ... ... ... ... ... 90 or gnus-macroexpand-all ... ... ... 71 ... ... ... 103 ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...] 41) ("/share/emacs/site-lisp/nognus-0.13/lisp/gnus-sum.elc" . 50944)) require(gnus-sum) byte-code("..!...!...!...!...!...!." [require gnus gnus-int gnus-sum gnus-util nnmail easymenu] 2) require(gnus-registry) eval-buffer(# nil "/Users/ndw/.gnus" nil t) ; Reading at buffer position 412 load-with-code-conversion("/Users/ndw/.gnus" "/Users/ndw/.gnus" nil t) load("~/.gnus" nil t) gnus-read-init-file() gnus-1(nil nil nil) gnus(nil) call-interactively(gnus t nil) execute-extended-command(nil) call-interactively(execute-extended-command nil nil) Be seeing you, norm -- Norman Walsh | Don't despair, not even over the fact http://nwalsh.com/ | that you don't despair.-- Kafka