message.el patch

message.el patch

[Jan Rychter]

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I'd like to propose this small change to message.el, useful for those of
us who do not use a signature separator or who use one that is a little
different.

--J.

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--- lisp/message.el	8 Mar 2004 06:54:23 -0000	7.14
+++ lisp/message.el	1 Apr 2004 18:12:54 -0000
@@ -404,6 +404,13 @@ for `message-cross-post-insert-note'."
   :link '(custom-manual "(message)Various Message Variables")
   :group 'message-various)
 
+(defcustom message-signature-inserted-separator "-- \n" 
+  "The string that is inserted before the signature to separate it from
+the message body."
+  :type 'string
+  :link '(custom-manual "(message)Various Message Variables")
+  :group 'message-various)
+
 (defcustom message-elide-ellipsis "\n[...]\n\n"
   "*The string which is inserted for elided text."
   :type 'string
@@ -2920,8 +2927,8 @@ Prefix arg means justify as well."
 	(insert "\n"))
       (when message-signature-insert-empty-line
 	(insert "\n"))
-      (insert "-- \n")
+      (insert message-signature-inserted-separator)
       (if (eq signature t)
 	  (insert-file-contents message-signature-file)
 	(insert signature))

--- texi/message.texi	5 Mar 2004 11:24:27 -0000	7.3
+++ texi/message.texi	1 Apr 2004 18:13:18 -0000
@@ -1876,6 +1876,15 @@ the @sc{mule}-to-@acronym{MIME} translat
 Regexp matching the signature separator.  It is @samp{^-- *$} by
 default.
 
+@item message-signature-inserted-separator
+@vindex message-signature-inserted-separator
+The string that separates the inserted signature from the message
+text. It is @samp{-- \n} by default.
+
+Please note that this is different from
+@code{message-signature-separator}, which is a regexp that helps in
+finding when the signature begins.
+
 @item mail-header-separator
 @vindex mail-header-separator
 String used to separate the headers from the body.  It is @samp{--text

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Re: message.el patch

[Jesper Harder]

Jan Rychter <jan@rychter.com> writes:

> I'd like to propose this small change to message.el, useful for
> those of us who do not use a signature separator or who use one that
> is a little different.
>
> +(defcustom message-signature-inserted-separator "-- \n" 
> +  "The string that is inserted before the signature to separate it from
> +the message body."

Auch!  I think this is evil, to be honest.  Some things are not meant
to be customized ... such as "Re:" or "-- ".

-- 
Jesper Harder                                <http://purl.org/harder/>

Re: message.el patch

[Simon Josefsson]

Jesper Harder <harder@ifa.au.dk> writes:

> Jan Rychter <jan@rychter.com> writes:
>
>> I'd like to propose this small change to message.el, useful for
>> those of us who do not use a signature separator or who use one that
>> is a little different.
>>
>> +(defcustom message-signature-inserted-separator "-- \n" 
>> +  "The string that is inserted before the signature to separate it from
>> +the message body."
>
> Auch!  I think this is evil, to be honest.  Some things are not meant
> to be customized ... such as "Re:" or "-- ".

FWIW, I agree.  The signature separator is '-- \n', so it can be
recognized reliably.  Users can finish their messages in other ways,
and they can use 'Sv:' instead of 'Re:' in Subject:, but that doesn't
make it the right thing.  I think it is simple enough to add
non-standard signatures ("body" posting styles? hooks?), so that we
don't need to make the real signature delimiter customizable.

Hm.  However, it would have been kind of seasonable appropriate to
make both '-- \n' and 'Re:' customizable yesterday.

Re: message.el patch

[Kai Grossjohann]

Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:

> Hm.  However, it would have been kind of seasonable appropriate to
> make both '-- \n' and 'Re:' customizable yesterday.

In that vein, I propose to add i18n to smtpmail.el.  I mean, isn't it
obvious that a German rather sees NACHRICHT VON than MAIL FROM?

(Siemes produced a Unix called Sinix ages ago, and it supported
different "universes".  Rumor has it that in the Siemens universe, the
SMTP daemon was saying NACHRICHT VON...  Can people confirm/deny?)

Kai

Re: message.el patch

[Jochen Küpper]

On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 08:18:09 +0200 Kai Grossjohann wrote:

Kai> In that vein,

Sorry Kai, but you are day late;)

Greetings,
Jochen
-- 
Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit                http://www.Jochen-Kuepper.de
    Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité                GnuPG key: CC1B0B4D
        (Part 3 you find in my messages before fall 2003.)

Re: message.el patch

[Steve Youngs]

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* Jan Rychter <jan@rychter.com> writes:

  > I'd like to propose this small change to message.el, useful for those of
  > us who do not use a signature separator or who use one that is a little
  > different.

I'm against this change.  A signature separator should be:

   dash dash space newline

and nothing else.



-- 
|---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: A94B3003>---|
|              Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.               |
|      The proof of the pudding, is under the crust.       |
|------------------------------<sryoungs@bigpond.net.au>---|

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Re: message.el patch

[Jan Rychter]

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>>>>> "SY" == Steve Youngs <sryoungs@bigpond.net.au> writes:
 SY> * Jan Rychter <jan@rychter.com> writes:
 >> I'd like to propose this small change to message.el, useful for
 >> those of us who do not use a signature separator or who use one that
 >> is a little different.

 SY> I'm against this change.  A signature separator should be:

 SY> dash dash space newline

 SY> and nothing else.

Well, I sort of expected this kind of discussion... I guess I should
have known better to post explanations in advance.

Please consider that some people do not use "signatures" as per the
usual usenettish understanding goes, but still want to append a piece of
text at the end of each E-mail, text that depends on posting styles,
etc. -- for all practical reasons: a signature.

Please consider:

a) how I have signed this E-mail,

b) what happens if I want to append something of this kind:

   best regards,
   --Jan

None of these things is possible with the current Gnus. Since I am tired
of manually deleting the extra "-- \n" that Gnus chooses to insert
before my "signatures" (in a loose sense of the word), I propose this
change.

Religious issues aside, I believe there are legitimate reasons to change
the signature separator, especially if you accept that the definition of
a "signature" isn't very clear cut at all.

--J.

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Re: message.el patch

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:23:36 -0800, Jan wrote:

> Please consider that some people do not use "signatures" as per the
> usual usenettish understanding goes, but still want to append a
> piece of text at the end of each E-mail, text that depends on
> posting styles, etc. -- for all practical reasons: a signature.

Perhaps it would be easier to swallow if you seperated the two
semantically different things "adding some text at the end of the body
of the email" and "adding a .signature to the email", even though
functionally they are similar?

It makes sense to want to have no .signature and have something
automatically inserted at the end of an email, as you show (both
things at the same time make sense as well). Just don't call it a
.signature (because it isn't). What do you think?

> a) how I have signed this E-mail,

> b) what happens if I want to append something of this kind:

>    best regards, --Jan

> None of these things is possible with the current Gnus.

(I think that's stretching it a bit :-))

> Religious issues aside, I believe there are legitimate reasons to
> change the signature separator, especially if you accept that the
> definition of a "signature" isn't very clear cut at all.

What's the point in undermining the definition of a .signature even
further?


  Best regards,

-- 
 "Mr. Cotton's... parrot. Same question."                     Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: message.el patch

[Reiner Steib]

On Fri, Apr 02 2004, Jan Rychter wrote:

> a) how I have signed this E-mail,
>
> b) what happens if I want to append something of this kind:
>
>    best regards,
>    --Jan
>
> None of these things is possible with the current Gnus. 

Huh?  I've been using the `body' form in `gnus-posting-styles' for
years, see (info "(gnus)Posting Styles"):

  (body "\nbest regards,\n--Jan")

[ FWIW, I'm against making the (outgoing) signature delimiter or "Re: "
customizable. ]

Bye, Reiner.

PS: Your date is in the future.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- PGP key available via WWW   http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: message.el patch

[Jan Rychter]

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>>>>> "Reiner" == Reiner Steib <4.uce.03.r.s@nurfuerspam.de> writes:
 Reiner> On Fri, Apr 02 2004, Jan Rychter wrote:
 >> a) how I have signed this E-mail,
 >>
 >> b) what happens if I want to append something of this kind:
 >>
 >> best regards, --Jan
 >>
 >> None of these things is possible with the current Gnus.

 Reiner> Huh?  I've been using the `body' form in `gnus-posting-styles'
 Reiner> for years, see (info "(gnus)Posting Styles"):

 Reiner> (body "\nbest regards,\n--Jan")

That is indeed true -- I didn't know about the "body" option. Sorry
about the noise, then.

OTOH, I believe that part of the manual needs clarifying, as I could
only guess the meaning of the "body" option by trying it out.

 Reiner> [ FWIW, I'm against making the (outgoing) signature delimiter
 Reiner> or "Re: " customizable. ]

It seems it isn't really necessary after all :-)

(BTW, I wasn't setting it to an evil Microsoft ad, I was actually
setting it to "", so that I can insert text without the signature
separator)

 Reiner> PS: Your date is in the future.

Fixed, thanks.

--J.

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Re: message.el patch

[Reiner Steib]

On Fri, Apr 02 2004, Jan Rychter wrote:

>>>>>> "Reiner" == Reiner Steib <4.uce.03.r.s@nurfuerspam.de> writes:
[...]
>  Reiner> Huh?  I've been using the `body' form in `gnus-posting-styles'
>  Reiner> for years, see (info "(gnus)Posting Styles"):
>
>  Reiner> (body "\nbest regards,\n--Jan")
>
> That is indeed true -- I didn't know about the "body" option. Sorry
> about the noise, then.
>
> OTOH, I believe that part of the manual needs clarifying, as I could
> only guess the meaning of the "body" option by trying it out.

... or by figuring it out from the example:

,----[ (info "(gnus)Posting Styles") ]
|              ((posting-from-work-p) ;; A user defined function
|               (signature-file "~/.work-signature")
|               (address "user@bar.foo")
|               (body "You are fired.\n\nSincerely, your boss.")
|               (organization "Important Work, Inc"))
`----

But I agree, that the manual could be improved at this point.  Do you
have a suggestion?

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- PGP key available via WWW   http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: message.el patch

[Patrice Neff]

Jan Rychter <jan@rychter.com> writes:

> Please consider:
>
> a) how I have signed this E-mail,
>
> b) what happens if I want to append something of this kind:
>
>    best regards,
>    --Jan
>
> None of these things is possible with the current Gnus. Since I am tired
> of manually deleting the extra "-- \n" that Gnus chooses to insert
> before my "signatures" (in a loose sense of the word), I propose this
> change.

This is already possible. Have a look at my gnus-posting-styles
setup. Only the relevant parts are included.

(setq gnus-posting-styles
      '((".*"
	 (body "\n\nRegards\nPatrice\n"))))

Regards
Patrice

-- 
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes
to the Father except through me."               (The Bible, John 14:6)