IMAP desired delete / expiry behavior: achievable?

IMAP desired delete / expiry behavior: achievable?

[Dave Abrahams]

I know what I want to happen, but I'm not sure how to get from here to
there, or even whether it's possible.

IMAP has two deletion states, deleted and "expunged," where only the
latter truly removes the message.  In my IMAP groups I would like:

* To be able to mark messages deleted.  

  - Note that "deleted" and "expirable" don't necessarily mean the same
    thing, because non-Gnus mail clients (horrors!) should see them
    marked deleted also

  - I'd like to be able to render such messages differently in the
    summary buffer (e.g. with strikethrough)

* To have deleted messages expunged upon gnus-summary-rescan-group and
  gnus-summary-exit

I don't think I want the expiry mechanism to take effect except inasmuch
as it may be used to accomplish expunging.

Is there a way?

Thanks in advance,

-- 
Dave Abrahams
BoostPro Computing
http://www.boostpro.com

Re: IMAP desired delete / expiry behavior: achievable?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Dave Abrahams <dave@boostpro.com> writes:

> I know what I want to happen, but I'm not sure how to get from here to
> there, or even whether it's possible.
>
> IMAP has two deletion states, deleted and "expunged," where only the
> latter truly removes the message.

Well, \Deleted is a mark as any other marks, and doesn't really do,
like, anything much.  (On modern IMAP servers.)

The EXPUNGE command, of course, deletes the article.  :-)

> In my IMAP groups I would like:
>
> * To be able to mark messages deleted.  
>
>   - Note that "deleted" and "expirable" don't necessarily mean the same
>     thing, because non-Gnus mail clients (horrors!) should see them
>     marked deleted also
>
>   - I'd like to be able to render such messages differently in the
>     summary buffer (e.g. with strikethrough)

I guess Gnus could render the \Deleted mark.  That seems vaguely
useful.  But as Gnus doesn't set the \Deleted mark on articles itself,
it would only be useful for people who use other IMAP clients that do do
that, so I'm not really feeling it.

> * To have deleted messages expunged upon gnus-summary-rescan-group and
>   gnus-summary-exit

And this neither for the same reason.  But you should be able to just
add `(nnimap-send-command "EXPUNGE")' to your `gnus-summary-exit-hook'
if you want this.  More or less.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

Re: IMAP desired delete / expiry behavior: achievable?

[Dave Abrahams]

on Sun Jun 10 2012, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi-AT-gnus.org> wrote:

> Dave Abrahams <dave@boostpro.com> writes:
>
>> I know what I want to happen, but I'm not sure how to get from here to
>> there, or even whether it's possible.
>>
>> IMAP has two deletion states, deleted and "expunged," where only the
>> latter truly removes the message.
>
> Well, \Deleted is a mark as any other marks, and doesn't really do,
> like, anything much.  (On modern IMAP servers.)

Yep, that's right.  Can I manipulate and view that mark through Gnus?

> The EXPUNGE command, of course, deletes the article.  :-)
>
>> In my IMAP groups I would like:
>>
>> * To be able to mark messages deleted.  
>>
>>   - Note that "deleted" and "expirable" don't necessarily mean the same
>>     thing, because non-Gnus mail clients (horrors!) should see them
>>     marked deleted also
>>
>>   - I'd like to be able to render such messages differently in the
>>     summary buffer (e.g. with strikethrough)
>
> I guess Gnus could render the \Deleted mark.  That seems vaguely
> useful.  But as Gnus doesn't set the \Deleted mark on articles itself,
> it would only be useful for people who use other IMAP clients that do do
> that, so I'm not really feeling it.

...but I personally would like to be able to set the \Deleted mark
through Gnus.  I'm getting a similar effect right now with E(xpirable)
but of course it doesn't show up on my other mail clients.

>> * To have deleted messages expunged upon gnus-summary-rescan-group and
>>   gnus-summary-exit
>
> And this neither for the same reason.  But you should be able to just
> add `(nnimap-send-command "EXPUNGE")' to your `gnus-summary-exit-hook'
> if you want this.  More or less.

Thanks; I'll look into that.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
BoostPro Computing
http://www.boostpro.com

Re: IMAP desired delete / expiry behavior: achievable?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Dave Abrahams <dave@boostpro.com> writes:

>> Well, \Deleted is a mark as any other marks, and doesn't really do,
>> like, anything much.  (On modern IMAP servers.)
>
> Yep, that's right.  Can I manipulate and view that mark through Gnus?

Gnus doesn't use \Deleted for anything (sort of), so, no, that's not an
exposed command.

> ...but I personally would like to be able to set the \Deleted mark
> through Gnus.  I'm getting a similar effect right now with E(xpirable)
> but of course it doesn't show up on my other mail clients.

I'm not sure why you'd want to mark a message as \Deleted without
deleting it.  `B DEL' deletes the message.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

Re: IMAP desired delete / expiry behavior: achievable?

[Dave Abrahams]

on Sun Jun 10 2012, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi-AT-gnus.org> wrote:

> Dave Abrahams <dave@boostpro.com> writes:
>
>>> Well, \Deleted is a mark as any other marks, and doesn't really do,
>>> like, anything much.  (On modern IMAP servers.)
>>
>> Yep, that's right.  Can I manipulate and view that mark through Gnus?
>
> Gnus doesn't use \Deleted for anything (sort of), so, no, that's not an
> exposed command.
>
>> ...but I personally would like to be able to set the \Deleted mark
>> through Gnus.  I'm getting a similar effect right now with E(xpirable)
>> but of course it doesn't show up on my other mail clients.
>
> I'm not sure why you'd want to mark a message as \Deleted without
> deleting it.  

For the same reasons people mark a message Expirable without expiring
it... except that I'd like this state to show up in other mail clients.

> `B DEL' deletes the message.

I know.  `B DEL' is too aggressive for my needs.  I might change my
mind before I leave the group.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
BoostPro Computing
http://www.boostpro.com

\Deleted IMAP flag (was: IMAP desired delete / expiry behavior: achievable?)

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 21:43:42 +0200 Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote: 

LMI> I guess Gnus could render the \Deleted mark.  That seems vaguely
LMI> useful.  But as Gnus doesn't set the \Deleted mark on articles itself,
LMI> it would only be useful for people who use other IMAP clients that do do
LMI> that, so I'm not really feeling it.

I always thought \Deleted was the E mark and just yesterday gave advice
on how to hide \Deleted articles by using `expired'.

IMHO Gnus should and must render the \Deleted mark, and make it easy to
treat like all the other first-class marks.  Would that be hard to accomplish?

Ted

Re: \Deleted IMAP flag

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> I always thought \Deleted was the E mark and just yesterday gave advice
> on how to hide \Deleted articles by using `expired'.

I think nnimap translates "E" into "gnus-expire" on the server?  Let's
see...  yup.

> IMHO Gnus should and must render the \Deleted mark, and make it easy
> to treat like all the other first-class marks.  Would that be hard to
> accomplish?

Not really, but I'm not sure I see the use case for it...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no  *  Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen