From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/52127 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Harry Putnam Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: Overbearing undownloaded face Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 22:37:41 -0700 Organization: Still searching... Sender: ding-owner@lists.math.uh.edu Message-ID: References: <87wuha9kpf.fsf@enberg.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1051853878 714 80.91.224.249 (2 May 2003 05:37:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 05:37:58 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: ding-owner+M670@lists.math.uh.edu Fri May 02 07:37:54 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from malifon.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.13]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19BTF4-0000BC-00 for ; Fri, 02 May 2003 07:37:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.math.uh.edu) by malifon.math.uh.edu with smtp (Exim 3.20 #1) id 19BTFZ-0004la-00; Fri, 02 May 2003 00:38:25 -0500 Original-Received: from sclp3.sclp.com ([64.157.176.121]) by malifon.math.uh.edu with smtp (Exim 3.20 #1) id 19BTEw-0004lR-00 for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Fri, 02 May 2003 00:37:46 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 11925 invoked by alias); 2 May 2003 05:37:45 -0000 Original-Received: (qmail 11920 invoked from network); 2 May 2003 05:37:44 -0000 Original-Received: from main.gmane.org (80.91.224.249) by sclp3.sclp.com with SMTP; 2 May 2003 05:37:44 -0000 Original-Received: from list by main.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19BTDg-00007V-00 for ; Fri, 02 May 2003 07:36:28 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-To: ding@gnus.org Original-Received: from news by main.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19BTDf-00007L-00 for ; Fri, 02 May 2003 07:36:27 +0200 Original-Lines: 70 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org User-Agent: Gnus/5.09002 (Oort Gnus v0.20) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:DCtSsNBokKtA7r40jX5gIGBRW0k= Precedence: bulk Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:52127 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general:52127 Kevin Greiner writes: > Well, it's all in the eye of the beholder. Several colors were tried > before the group tired of seeing it changed or decided that they liked > the green. To be honest, I'm not sure which. The actual color was never my complaint [...] >> Just at a quick thought, it seems the undownloaded face is more a >> pain in the butt than a help. > > The agent isn't much use if you haven't downloaded an article. If you > use gnus-agent-fetch-session (J s) then the undownloaded face may not > be much of a help. However, if you like to pick and choose the > articles to download, it helps with keeping track of your decisions. I see the idea of the undownloaded face. But it seems to be intruding in an area where agent qualities are not called for. Its over-riding long time functionality developed before there was an agent. Nulling out options designed for news reading without the agent. Like different faces for read, dormant etc. Those options (or at least their faces) shouldn't disappear because the server is agentized. > That will change the color. If you want to completely remove the > undownloaded face (and thereby restore the behavior that you're > comfortable with), do the following. > > Customize gnus-summary-highlight. Remove the three cons cells that > reference the undownloaded faces. Ok, now were talking. > If you would prefer a text indicator, you can add the %O specification to > gnus-summary-format-spec. I'm thinking using format-spec should be the default. It wouldn't over-ride existing faces or options for other styles of reading > The agent was largely designed from the perspective of the nntp > backend. Since the retention times on many servers is fairly low, it > really not safe to mark an article then expect it to still be > available later. However, if you fetch it into the agent, you can > then mark it knowing that it will always be available. Those very marks, and their faces were invented for precisely the usage you say is unsafe. Tick, dormant, read all were available long before the agent came into being ..(around quassia-18 or so, I think). The whole business of tieing tick to cache was around before the agent. But it wasn't felt necessary to force all other faces into submission if a message was not cached. [...] > No, everything is customizable to the point that you can get back the > exact non-agentized appearance. Thats the beauty of gnus eh? But still, it seems that undownloaded face thing makes it hard to use the agent as it was designed to be used. That is, to allow both styles of reading in one tool. Plugged and unplugged. In the current setup, features that are, strickly speaking, only relevant to agentized messages are getting into the way of `plugged' usage by overriding marks and their faces - in fact, rendering them useless for Plugged reading. Thanks for the info and aiming me at those three cons-cells.