Mutt/Gnus hybrid for mail?

Mutt/Gnus hybrid for mail?

[Peter Davis]

I hope this isn't too radical an idea for this group. For email, I like
some things about mutt, and some things about gnus, and I'm trying to
find a way to make a hybrid of these two. In particular, I think a good
start would be to run mutt in an emacs window, and have the messages
open in another window in Article mode.

I know mutt lets you set the 'pager', but I'm not sure if I can get
emacs to open the message in Article mode.

Has anyone done this? Any pitfalls I'm overlooking?

Of course, I also want to compose messages in Message mode, but that's a
solved problem.

Thanks very much!

-pd

Re: Mutt/Gnus hybrid for mail?

[Peter Münster]

On Mon, Dec 08 2014, Peter Davis wrote:

> For email, I like some things about mutt,

Hi,

What things?

-- 
           Peter

Re: Mutt/Gnus hybrid for mail?

[Peter Davis]

Peter Münster <pmlists@free.fr> writes:

> On Mon, Dec 08 2014, Peter Davis wrote:
>
>> For email, I like some things about mutt,
>
> Hi,
>
> What things?

Most significantly, since I only use mutt or gnus for email, I find mutt
more intuitive, since its commands, etc. were designed for email. "Delete"
instead of "Expire", etc. (BTW, I'm using both with Fastmail.fm IMAP.)

Also, when I delete/expire a message, mutt automatically displays the
next unread message in the folder. Gnus requires another keystroke. (Not
a big deal, but annoying.)

I have not managed to get gnus to display previously read messages in a
thread automatically, though I've messed around with 
(setq gnus-fetch-old-headers t). I gather this is inconsistent on IMAP
servers, and slow.

I realize I could customize gnus to behave exactly the way I want, but
I'm not a much of a lisper, so it would take me a fair bit of
effort. Anyway, customatizations are unlikely to improve
performance. Mutt seems faster at downloading messages, etc.

I'm certainly open to suggestions on how to improve any of these.

Thanks,
-pd

Re: Mutt/Gnus hybrid for mail?

[Peter Münster]

On Mon, Dec 08 2014, Peter Davis wrote:

> Also, when I delete/expire a message, mutt automatically displays the
> next unread message in the folder. Gnus requires another keystroke. (Not
> a big deal, but annoying.)

This sets the expire mark with the "d" key and goes to next message:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
(defun pm/alter-summary-map ()
  (local-set-key "d" [?M ?M ?e ?e down]))

(defun pm/alter-article-map ()
  (local-set-key "d" "MMeen"))

(add-hook 'gnus-summary-mode-hook       'pm/alter-summary-map)
(add-hook 'gnus-article-mode-hook       'pm/alter-article-map)
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---


> I have not managed to get gnus to display previously read messages in a
> thread automatically,

You mean, display all messages of a thread, when it has at least one new
message?  I'm sure, that this is possible and you would get a solution
here...

If you want it with a key-press: it's "A T".


> I realize I could customize gnus to behave exactly the way I want, but
> I'm not a much of a lisper, so it would take me a fair bit of
> effort.

Elisp is very useful, not only in Gnus. And you can get help here.


> Anyway, customatizations are unlikely to improve performance. Mutt
> seems faster at downloading messages, etc.

Perhaps. But the Mutt-macros are *very* limited and when you want to
display something else than plain text, Mutt needs external programs,
where the key-bindings are completely different and you can't control Mutt
anymore...
After having switched from Mutt to Gnus, I've just thought:
"Why haven't I done that earlier...?!"

I'm sure, that you'll spend more time integrating Mutt into Emacs the
way you like, than reading the Gnus manual.

-- 
           Peter

Re: Mutt/Gnus hybrid for mail?

[Peter Davis]

Peter Münster <pmlists@free.fr> writes:

> On Mon, Dec 08 2014, Peter Davis wrote:
>
>> Also, when I delete/expire a message, mutt automatically displays the
>> next unread message in the folder. Gnus requires another keystroke. (Not
>> a big deal, but annoying.)
>
> This sets the expire mark with the "d" key and goes to next message:
>

Thanks, Peter. I'll give that a try.

>
>> I have not managed to get gnus to display previously read messages in a
>> thread automatically,
>
> You mean, display all messages of a thread, when it has at least one new
> message?  I'm sure, that this is possible and you would get a solution
> here...
>
> If you want it with a key-press: it's "A T".
>

Yes the 'A T' sequence works, but it should be possible to have the
whole thread included for each new message when I open the
group/folder. The gnus-fetch-old-headers is supposed to do that, but I
have not managed to make it work. Also, mutt maintains a header cache so
that this is very fast. I'm not aware of a way to do this in gnus.

>
> Elisp is very useful, not only in Gnus. And you can get help here.
>

Granted. I wish I had time to learn it.

>
>> Anyway, customatizations are unlikely to improve performance. Mutt
>> seems faster at downloading messages, etc.
>
> Perhaps. But the Mutt-macros are *very* limited and when you want to
> display something else than plain text, Mutt needs external programs,
> where the key-bindings are completely different and you can't control Mutt
> anymore...

True. I do have some mutt macros that pipe messages to perl scripts to
do what I need. But yes, displaying HTML, etc. is very limited, which
was why I started this thread. (BTW, I think gnus uses w3m for HTML, but
not with the -dump switch.)

> After having switched from Mutt to Gnus, I've just thought:
> "Why haven't I done that earlier...?!"

I've used a slew of mail clients over the years, but have yet to find
one that has it all. Probably gnus is the most customizable, and
therefore potentially the best, but it takes a fair bit of work to get
everything set. I'm always concerned that when I move to another
machine, I'll have to figure it out all over again.

> I'm sure, that you'll spend more time integrating Mutt into Emacs the
> way you like, than reading the Gnus manual.

Probably. That's why I was hoping to find an existing solution. But
maybe I should just stick with gnus and gradually figure out how to make
it work the way I want.

-pd

Re: Mutt/Gnus hybrid for mail?

[Jorge A. Alfaro-Murillo]

Peter Davis writes:

> Most significantly, since I only use mutt or gnus for email, I 
> find mutt more intuitive, since its commands, etc. were designed 
> for email.  "Delete" instead of "Expire", etc. (BTW, I'm using 
> both with Fastmail.fm IMAP.)

If you use IMAP perhaps you should move the messages to the Trash 
group instead of expiring them.

I think that expiring fits more to handling your email like news, 
meaning, you only read what it is not read, and leave everything 
in the server. You don't worry about deleting things and just for 
space issues you expire things that are very old. Of course there 
are things that require your attention later, and that you want to 
keep showing as news.  For those you use ticks (key "!").

> Also, when I delete/expire a message, mutt automatically 
> displays the next unread message in the folder. Gnus requires 
> another keystroke. (Not a big deal, but annoying.)

You could assign a key to a function like this:

#+BEGIN_SRC emacs-lisp
  (defun my-gnus-summary-delete-article ()
    (interactive)
    (gnus-summary-move-article nil "nnimap+Fastmail.fm:Trash")
    (gnus-summary-next-unread-article))
 
#+END_SRC

"nnimap+Fastmai.fml:Trash" is just a guess, you should use 
whatever your group is called.

> I have not managed to get gnus to display previously read 
> messages in a thread automatically, though I've messed around 
> with  (setq gnus-fetch-old-headers t). I gather this is 
> inconsistent on IMAP servers, and slow.

Maybe try setting

#+BEGIN_SRC emacs-lisp
  (setq gnus-refer-thread-use-nnir t)
 
#+END_SRC

And then use "A T" when you need it. With 99% of the people using 
a TOFU (Text Over, Fullquote Under) style, most of the time you do 
not need to see the whole thread since it appears in the latest 
email.
 
> Anyway, customatizations are unlikely to improve performance. 
> Mutt seems faster at downloading messages, etc.

I would also like to hear about ways to improve performance.

Best,

-- 
Jorge.

Re: Mutt/Gnus hybrid for mail?

[Peter Davis]

jorge.alfaro-murillo@yale.edu (Jorge A. Alfaro-Murillo) writes:

> Peter Davis writes:
>
>> Most significantly, since I only use mutt or gnus for email, I 
>> find mutt more intuitive, since its commands, etc. were designed 
>> for email.  "Delete" instead of "Expire", etc. (BTW, I'm using 
>> both with Fastmail.fm IMAP.)
>
> If you use IMAP perhaps you should move the messages to the Trash 
> group instead of expiring them.

I do have the expiry target set to INBOX.Trash

>
>> Also, when I delete/expire a message, mutt automatically 
>> displays the next unread message in the folder. Gnus requires 
>> another keystroke. (Not a big deal, but annoying.)
>
> You could assign a key to a function like this:
>
> #+BEGIN_SRC emacs-lisp
>   (defun my-gnus-summary-delete-article ()
>     (interactive)
>     (gnus-summary-move-article nil "nnimap+Fastmail.fm:Trash")
>     (gnus-summary-next-unread-article))
>  
> #+END_SRC
>
> "nnimap+Fastmai.fml:Trash" is just a guess, you should use 
> whatever your group is called.
>

Worth a try. Does this actually display the next unread message, or just
move the cursor to it?

>> I have not managed to get gnus to display previously read 
>> messages in a thread automatically, though I've messed around 
>> with  (setq gnus-fetch-old-headers t). I gather this is 
>> inconsistent on IMAP servers, and slow.
>
> Maybe try setting
>
> #+BEGIN_SRC emacs-lisp
>   (setq gnus-refer-thread-use-nnir t)
>  
> #+END_SRC
>
> And then use "A T" when you need it. With 99% of the people using 
> a TOFU (Text Over, Fullquote Under) style, most of the time you do 
> not need to see the whole thread since it appears in the latest 
> email.
>  

Using 'A T' works, but I don't want to do that. I want all messages in
any threads with unread articles to just be there when I enter the group.

>> Anyway, customatizations are unlikely to improve performance. 
>> Mutt seems faster at downloading messages, etc.
>
> I would also like to hear about ways to improve performance.

Yes, I'm always glad to learn ways to make gnus faster or more usable.

Thank you.

-pd

Re: Mutt/Gnus hybrid for mail?

[Peter Davis]

Peter Münster <pmlists@free.fr> writes:

>
> This sets the expire mark with the "d" key and goes to next message:
>
> (defun pm/alter-summary-map ()
>   (local-set-key "d" [?M ?M ?e ?e down]))
>
> (defun pm/alter-article-map ()
>   (local-set-key "d" "MMeen"))
>
> (add-hook 'gnus-summary-mode-hook       'pm/alter-summary-map)
> (add-hook 'gnus-article-mode-hook       'pm/alter-article-map)
>

This seems to make 'd' the same as 'E' ... it expires the message and
moves the cursor, but it doesn't display the next unread message.

Thank you.

-pd

Re: Mutt/Gnus hybrid for mail?

[Charles Philip Chan]

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On 8 Dec 2014, pfd@pfdstudio.com wrote:

> Also, when I delete/expire a message, mutt automatically displays the
> next unread message in the folder. Gnus requires another
> keystroke. (Not a big deal, but annoying.)

So set the groups to either auto-expire or total-expire and use the
spacebar to read your mail.

  https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Expiring-Mail.html

> I have not managed to get gnus to display previously read messages in
> a thread automatically, though I've messed around with (setq
> gnus-fetch-old-headers t). I gather this is inconsistent on IMAP
> servers, and slow.

Set the variable "gnus-build-sparse-threads"

  https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Filling-In-Threads.html

Charles

-- 
"Linux: the operating system with a CLUE...
Command Line User Environment".
(seen in a posting in comp.software.testing)

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Re: Mutt/Gnus hybrid for mail?

[Charles Philip Chan]

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On 8 Dec 2014, cpchan@bell.net wrote:

> So set the groups to either auto-expire or total-expire and use the
> spacebar to read your mail.
>
> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Expiring-Mail.html

I should you don't need to set expiry for the spacebar to work.

Charles

-- 
"If you want to travel around the world and be invited to speak at a lot
of different places, just write a Unix operating system."
(By Linus Torvalds)

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Re: Mutt/Gnus hybrid for mail?

[Peter Münster]

On Mon, Dec 08 2014, Peter Davis wrote:

>> This sets the expire mark with the "d" key and goes to next message:
>>
>> (defun pm/alter-summary-map ()
>>   (local-set-key "d" [?M ?M ?e ?e down]))
>>
>> (defun pm/alter-article-map ()
>>   (local-set-key "d" "MMeen"))
>>
>> (add-hook 'gnus-summary-mode-hook       'pm/alter-summary-map)
>> (add-hook 'gnus-article-mode-hook       'pm/alter-article-map)
>>
>
> This seems to make 'd' the same as 'E' ... it expires the message and
> moves the cursor, but it doesn't display the next unread message.

Sorry, yes, in summary mode it moves only the cursor, because with my
setup, the article is not displayed then...

-- 
           Peter

Re: Mutt/Gnus hybrid for mail?

[Eric S Fraga]

On Monday,  8 Dec 2014 at 17:47, Peter Davis wrote:

[...]

> Most significantly, since I only use mutt or gnus for email, I find mutt
> more intuitive, since its commands, etc. were designed for email. "Delete"
> instead of "Expire", etc. (BTW, I'm using both with Fastmail.fm IMAP.)

As others have said, you can bind keys to whatever you want.  For
instance,

#+begin_src emacs-lisp
  (defun esf/alter-summary-map ()
    (local-set-key "d" 'gnus-summary-delete-article)
    (local-set-key "e" 'gnus-summary-mark-as-expirable)
    (local-set-key "u" 'gnus-summary-put-mark-as-unread)
    (local-set-key "w" 'gnus-article-fill-long-lines)
    )
  (add-hook 'gnus-summary-mode-hook 'esf/alter-summary-map)
#+end_src

> Also, when I delete/expire a message, mutt automatically displays the
> next unread message in the folder. Gnus requires another keystroke. (Not
> a big deal, but annoying.)

Gnus displays the next article for me if I am displaying an
article and hit "n", " " or "e".  Otherwise not.  If I am not displaying
an article, "n" and " " display the next article.

> I have not managed to get gnus to display previously read messages in a
> thread automatically, though I've messed around with 
> (setq gnus-fetch-old-headers t). I gather this is inconsistent on IMAP
> servers, and slow.

I use the agent and, in combination with settings gnus-fetch-old-headers
to t, I get the ancestors of any email shown in the summary window.  I
don't know if the agent is key here but it probably helps with speed.

> I realize I could customize gnus to behave exactly the way I want, but
> I'm not a much of a lisper, so it would take me a fair bit of
> effort. Anyway, customatizations are unlikely to improve
> performance. Mutt seems faster at downloading messages, etc.

Mutt *is* faster but *I* am faster with gnus than with mutt in terms of
productivity.  YMMV, of course :)  I used mutt for years before
switching to gnus maybe 8 years ago now and haven't looked back.

HTH,
eric

-- 
: Eric S Fraga, GnuPG: 0xFFFCF67D
: in Emacs 24.4.1 + Ma Gnus v0.12 + evil-git-d432ec2
: BBDB version 3.1.2 (2014-04-27 15:05:20 -0500)

Re: Mutt/Gnus hybrid for mail?

[Peter Davis]

Thanks very much for all the excellent suggestions. However, I think
perhaps I need to clarify what I'm missing.

1) Deleting

In mutt, when I'm looking at a message with what mutt calls the "index"
at the top, and "pager" at the bottom, analagous to gnus' Summary and
Article buffers, I can, with a single keystroke

1) move to and read the next message, or
2) move to and read the next unread message, or
3) delete the current message, and move to and read the next message.

I want to be able to either save or delete (expire) a message and open
the next one automatically. Frankly, it seems weird to me that gnus
moves the cursor in the Summary buffer to the next message, but still
displays the message I just expired in the Article buffer.

If I'm on the last message in the mutt index and I delete that, mutt
simply closes the 'pager' view and just displays the index view for the
whole screen.

2) Opening a group/mailbox

In mutt, when I open a mailbox (group), I see an index of all the
messages in the mailbox, with the cursor positioned at the first unread,
if any. I like that, but I'd settle for seeing all of the threads
containing any unread messages. As I understand it,
gnus-fetch-old-headers is supposed to do that, but I haven't found a way
to make it work, at least with Fastmail.fm IMAP.

For extra credit, in mutt's index (Summar) view, I can very easily
filter the list of messages with a few keystrokes. For instance, if I
type lpfd, I'll see just a list of messages whose headers contain
"pfd". Of course, this is not especially useful in gnus since the
Summary buffer doesn't show me a long list of earlier messages, but if I
could make that happen, it would be very useful.

Thanks again!

-pd

Re: Mutt/Gnus hybrid for mail?

[Eric S Fraga]

On Tuesday,  9 Dec 2014 at 07:49, Peter Davis wrote:
> Thanks very much for all the excellent suggestions. However, I think
> perhaps I need to clarify what I'm missing.
>
> 1) Deleting
>
> In mutt, when I'm looking at a message with what mutt calls the "index"
> at the top, and "pager" at the bottom, analagous to gnus' Summary and
> Article buffers, I can, with a single keystroke
>
> 1) move to and read the next message, or

N

> 2) move to and read the next unread message, or

n

> 3) delete the current message, and move to and read the next message.

E

These commands do exactly what you want, for me, when both summary and
article windows are displayed and summary window is selected.

> If I'm on the last message in the mutt index and I delete that, mutt
> simply closes the 'pager' view and just displays the index view for the
> whole screen.

In gnus, if you hit space or n to go to the next email, and if you
happen to be at the last message, gnus will prompt to go to the next
group if you hit the same key again.

>
> 2) Opening a group/mailbox
>
> In mutt, when I open a mailbox (group), I see an index of all the
> messages in the mailbox, with the cursor positioned at the first unread,
> if any. I like that,

gnus does exactly this for me.

> but I'd settle for seeing all of the threads
> containing any unread messages. As I understand it,
> gnus-fetch-old-headers is supposed to do that, but I haven't found a way
> to make it work, at least with Fastmail.fm IMAP.

nothing to do with the source of emails.  have you tried enabling the
gnus agent?

>
> For extra credit, in mutt's index (Summar) view, I can very easily
> filter the list of messages with a few keystrokes. For instance, if I
> type lpfd, I'll see just a list of messages whose headers contain
> "pfd". Of course, this is not especially useful in gnus since the
> Summary buffer doesn't show me a long list of earlier messages, but if I
> could make that happen, it would be very useful.

/spfd RET should do what you want.  You  may need to /o first.  then /w
to pop back to previous view.

maybe post your .gnus.el?

-- 
: Eric S Fraga, GnuPG: 0xFFFCF67D
: in Emacs 24.4.1 + Ma Gnus v0.12 + evil-git-d432ec2
: BBDB version 3.0.50 (2013-11-16 11:30:49 -0600)

Re: Mutt/Gnus hybrid for mail?

[Peter Davis]

Thanks, Eric,

Comments below ...

Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:

> On Tuesday,  9 Dec 2014 at 07:49, Peter Davis wrote:
>>
>
>> 3) delete the current message, and move to and read the next message.
>
> E
>
> These commands do exactly what you want, for me, when both summary and
> article windows are displayed and summary window is selected.

The 'E' command does not open the next message. It merely moves the
cursor in the Summary buffer. The Article buffer still displays the
just-expired message content. I have to press the spacebar to see the
next message. This may seem like a small point, but if I'm trying to
bang through lots of messages, it's an annoyance. Mutt wins on this.

>
>> If I'm on the last message in the mutt index and I delete that, mutt
>> simply closes the 'pager' view and just displays the index view for the
>> whole screen.
>
> In gnus, if you hit space or n to go to the next email, and if you
> happen to be at the last message, gnus will prompt to go to the next
> group if you hit the same key again.
>

Yes, I'm aware of that. I mentioned this mutt behavior because, if I can
somehow get gnus to actually display the next message, then being on the
last message in the Summary would require special handling.

>>
>> 2) Opening a group/mailbox
>>
>> In mutt, when I open a mailbox (group), I see an index of all the
>> messages in the mailbox, with the cursor positioned at the first unread,
>> if any. I like that,
>
> gnus does exactly this for me.
>

For me, Summary only shows the unread messages, and not even the rest of
the threads they belong to (unless I type 'A T').

>> but I'd settle for seeing all of the threads
>> containing any unread messages. As I understand it,
>> gnus-fetch-old-headers is supposed to do that, but I haven't found a way
>> to make it work, at least with Fastmail.fm IMAP.
>
> nothing to do with the source of emails.  have you tried enabling the
> gnus agent?
>
>>
>> For extra credit, in mutt's index (Summar) view, I can very easily
>> filter the list of messages with a few keystrokes. For instance, if I
>> type lpfd, I'll see just a list of messages whose headers contain
>> "pfd". Of course, this is not especially useful in gnus since the
>> Summary buffer doesn't show me a long list of earlier messages, but if I
>> could make that happen, it would be very useful.
>
> /spfd RET should do what you want.  You  may need to /o first.  then /w
> to pop back to previous view.
>

The 'l' command in mutt is not search, it's limit ... it limits the
display to messages matching some criteria. Admittedly I haven't
searched exhaustively for gnus features to mimic this, but I didn't see
any obvious ones. Of course, as I said, since only unread messages show
up in the Summary, this is not very useful in gnus.


> maybe post your .gnus.el?

Sure. Here it is. It's cobbled together from bits and pieces I found in
various places, so I'm sure it's not optimal.

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
;; @see http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Expiring-Mail.html
;; press 'E' to expire email
(setq nnmail-expiry-target "INBOX.Trash")
(setq nnmail-expiry-wait 'immediate)
(setq user-mail-address "pfd@pfdstudio.com")
(setq user-full-name "Peter Davis")
(setq gnus-fetch-old-headers t)

(setq gnus-select-method
      '(nnimap "Fastmail" ; primary email
		(nnimap-address "mail.messagingengine.com")
		(nnimap-server-port 993)
		(nnimap-authenticator login)
		(nnimap-expunge-on-close 'never)
		(nnimap-stream ssl)
))

(setq gnus-article-browse-delete-temp t)
(setq gnus-fetch-old-headers t)
(setq message-sendmail-envelope-from 'header)
(setq send-mail-function 'smtpmail-send-it
      message-send-mail-function 'smtpmail-send-it)
(setq smtpmail-default-smtp-server "smtps-proxy.messagingengine.com"
      smtpmail-smtp-server "smtps-proxy.messagingengine.com"
      smtpmail-smtp-service 80
      smtpmail-starttls-credentials '(("smtps-proxy.messagingengine.com" 80 nil nil)))
(setq smtpmail-stream-type 'tls)

(setq fill-flowed-display-column nil)

(add-hook 'gnus-article-mode-hook
  (lambda ()
    (setq
     truncate-lines nil
     word-wrap t)))

(setq gnus-posting-styles
      '((".*"
         (name "Peter Davis")
         (address "pfd@pfdstudio.com")
         (BCC "pfd@pfdstudio.com"))))

(setq gnus-html-frame-width 180)
(defun my-message-mode-setup ()
  (setq fill-column 72)
  (turn-on-auto-fill))
(add-hook 'message-mode-hook 'my-message-mode-setup)

;;switch to gnus group buffer or start gnus
(defun my-switch-to-gnus-group-buffer ()
  "Switch to gnus group buffer if it exists, otherwise start gnus"
  (interactive)
  (if (or (not (fboundp 'gnus-alive-p))
          (not (gnus-alive-p)))
      (gnus)
    (switch-to-buffer "*Group*")))
(global-set-key (kbd "C-c n") 'my-switch-to-gnus-group-buffer)

(setq-default
     gnus-summary-line-format "%U%R%z %(%&user-date;  %-15,15f  %B%s%)\n"
     gnus-user-date-format-alist '((t . "%Y-%m-%d %H:%M"))
     gnus-summary-thread-gathering-function 'gnus-gather-threads-by-references
     gnus-thread-sort-functions '(gnus-thread-sort-by-date)
     gnus-sum-thread-tree-false-root ""
     gnus-sum-thread-tree-indent " "
     gnus-sum-thread-tree-leaf-with-other "├► "
     gnus-sum-thread-tree-root ""
     gnus-sum-thread-tree-single-leaf "└► "
     gnus-sum-thread-tree-vertical "│")
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Re: Mutt/Gnus hybrid for mail?

[Eric S Fraga]

On Tuesday,  9 Dec 2014 at 09:34, Peter Davis wrote:

[...]

>> E
>>
>> These commands do exactly what you want, for me, when both summary and
>> article windows are displayed and summary window is selected.
>
> The 'E' command does not open the next message. It merely moves the
> cursor in the Summary buffer. The Article buffer still displays the

True.  Sorry about that.  I don't often type E as I have total expire
set and all my read messages automatically expire...

> Yes, I'm aware of that. I mentioned this mutt behavior because, if I can
> somehow get gnus to actually display the next message, then being on the
> last message in the Summary would require special handling.

Does it not display the next message with n or space?  Is it only when
you type E that you don't get the behaviour you want?  Maybe do as
others have suggested and look at automatic expiration of emails.

> For me, Summary only shows the unread messages, and not even the rest of
> the threads they belong to (unless I type 'A T').

Again, have you tried the agent?

[...]

>> /spfd RET should do what you want.  You  may need to /o first.  then /w
>> to pop back to previous view.
>>
>
> The 'l' command in mutt is not search, it's limit ... it limits the

From C-h c / s:

  / s runs the command gnus-summary-limit-to-subject

i.e. not search but limit so the same as mutt.  There are a whole set of
/ options.  Type / C-h in the summary window and you'll see them
all.  Unlike mutt (IIRC), these are cumulative but you can pop back out
of each one.

> ;; @see http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Expiring-Mail.html
> ;; press 'E' to expire email
> (setq nnmail-expiry-target "INBOX.Trash")
> (setq nnmail-expiry-wait 'immediate)

You can set individual configurations for groups in the Group buffer by
typing "G c" to bring up a configuration window.

> (setq-default
>      gnus-summary-line-format "%U%R%z %(%&user-date;  %-15,15f  %B%s%)\n"
>      gnus-user-date-format-alist '((t . "%Y-%m-%d %H:%M"))
>      gnus-summary-thread-gathering-function 'gnus-gather-threads-by-references

I use 'gnus-gather-threads-by-subject.  Maybe try this to see if the
threads get built up for you?

Are you actually in threaded mode, by the way?  What happens if you type
T T?


-- 
: Eric S Fraga, GnuPG: 0xFFFCF67D
: in Emacs 25.0.50.1 + Ma Gnus v0.12 + evil-git-d432ec2
: BBDB version 3.1.2 (2014-05-06 11:45:08 -0500)

Re: Mutt/Gnus hybrid for mail?

[Peter Davis]

Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:

> On Tuesday,  9 Dec 2014 at 09:34, Peter Davis wrote:
>
>> Yes, I'm aware of that. I mentioned this mutt behavior because, if I can
>> somehow get gnus to actually display the next message, then being on the
>> last message in the Summary would require special handling.
>
> Does it not display the next message with n or space?  Is it only when
> you type E that you don't get the behaviour you want?  Maybe do as
> others have suggested and look at automatic expiration of emails.

Assuming that I can find some way to program a key to expire a message
and open the next one (ie, display it in the Article buffer)
automatically, it would need to be aware that if I expire the last
message in the summary, there's no next message to display, so it should
just do nothing in that case. That's what I was trying to convey.

I'm not interested in auto expiry. I want to look at each message and
choose to either save or delete it and move on to the next.  That's all
I'm trying to do. In mutt, this is easy.

>
>> For me, Summary only shows the unread messages, and not even the rest of
>> the threads they belong to (unless I type 'A T').
>
> Again, have you tried the agent?

No, I have not tried agent. I'm not really looking for unplugged use,
but perhaps that's the workaround for getting gnus to display the
already read messages.


>
> From C-h c / s:
>
>   / s runs the command gnus-summary-limit-to-subject
>
> i.e. not search but limit so the same as mutt.  There are a whole set of
> / options.  Type / C-h in the summary window and you'll see them
> all.  Unlike mutt (IIRC), these are cumulative but you can pop back out
> of each one.

Nice. Thanks! If I ever get gnus to display more in the Summary buffer,
this will be useful.

>
>> ;; @see http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Expiring-Mail.html
>> ;; press 'E' to expire email
>> (setq nnmail-expiry-target "INBOX.Trash")
>> (setq nnmail-expiry-wait 'immediate)
>
> You can set individual configurations for groups in the Group buffer by
> typing "G c" to bring up a configuration window.
>
>> (setq-default
>>      gnus-summary-line-format "%U%R%z %(%&user-date;  %-15,15f  %B%s%)\n"
>>      gnus-user-date-format-alist '((t . "%Y-%m-%d %H:%M"))
>>      gnus-summary-thread-gathering-function 'gnus-gather-threads-by-references
>
> I use 'gnus-gather-threads-by-subject.  Maybe try this to see if the
> threads get built up for you?
>
> Are you actually in threaded mode, by the way?  What happens if you type
> T T?

I think I've tried most of these combinations, but I'll keep at it.

Thanks,
-pd

Re: Mutt/Gnus hybrid for mail?

[Adam Sjøgren]

Peter writes:

> Assuming that I can find some way to program a key to expire a message
> and open the next one (ie, display it in the Article buffer)
> automatically, it would need to be aware that if I expire the last
> message in the summary, there's no next message to display, so it
> should just do nothing in that case. That's what I was trying to
> convey.

You can do this with a little configation and an "advice".

First, set gnus-summary-goto-unread to t, which makes 'E' jump to the
next unread article, rather than just the next article:

  (setq gnus-summary-goto-unread t)

(I assume this is what you mean by "the next one", otherwise, you can
simply leave this out.)

Then tell Gnus that when you press 'E', which jumps to the next (unread)
article, you also want to automatically do the same as pressing 'g'
(i.e. display the article you are on in the summary):

  (defadvice gnus-summary-mark-as-expirable (after show-article last activate)
    (gnus-summary-show-article))


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "Smilies are extremely moist."                               Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: Mutt/Gnus hybrid for mail?

[Peter Davis]

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

> Peter writes:
> Then tell Gnus that when you press 'E', which jumps to the next (unread)
> article, you also want to automatically do the same as pressing 'g'
> (i.e. display the article you are on in the summary):

Aha! Adding this to Peter Münster's suggested code, I get:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
(defun pm/alter-summary-map ()
  (local-set-key "d" [?M ?M ?e ?e down ?g]))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---


which works!

Thank you!

-pd

Re: Mutt/Gnus hybrid for mail?

[Adam Sjøgren]

Peter writes:

> asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

>> Peter writes:
>> Then tell Gnus that when you press 'E', which jumps to the next (unread)
>> article, you also want to automatically do the same as pressing 'g'
>> (i.e. display the article you are on in the summary):

> Aha! Adding this to Peter Münster's suggested code, I get:

> (defun pm/alter-summary-map ()
>   (local-set-key "d" [?M ?M ?e ?e down ?g]))

> which works!

Using 'd' as 'E' seems weird to me, but whatever floats your boat.


  :-),

   Adam

-- 
 "I'm a dreamer - a loser                                     Adam Sjøgren
  I'm going 'till the going is gone"                     asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: Mutt/Gnus hybrid for mail?

[Charles Philip Chan]

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On 9 Dec 2014, pfd@pfdstudio.com wrote:

> For me, Summary only shows the unread messages, and not even the rest
> of the threads they belong to (unless I type 'A T').

For me, I have Gnus set to see unread/ticked article and threads that
have unread and ticked articles. I have

   1. "gnus-fetch-old-headers" set to "some".
   2. "gnus-build-sparse-threads" set to "some".
   
It is much cleaner this way, since it is not cluttered with articles of
no interest. If I want to see old read one, I just use "/o".

>>> but I'd settle for seeing all of the threads containing any unread
>>> messages. As I understand it, gnus-fetch-old-headers is supposed to
>>> do that, but I haven't found a way to make it work, at least with
>>> Fastmail.fm IMAP.

I do use imap- a local Dovecot server.

> The 'l' command in mutt is not search, it's limit ... it limits the
> display to messages matching some criteria. Admittedly I haven't
> searched exhaustively for gnus features to mimic this, but I didn't
> see any obvious ones. Of course, as I said, since only unread messages
> show up in the Summary, this is not very useful in gnus.

In Gnus "/" is "limited to". It is very powerful:

   https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Limiting.html



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Re: Mutt/Gnus hybrid for mail?

[Peter Münster]

On Tue, Dec 09 2014, Adam Sjøgren wrote:

> Peter writes:

>> Aha! Adding this to Peter Münster's suggested code, I get:
>
>> (defun pm/alter-summary-map ()
>>   (local-set-key "d" [?M ?M ?e ?e down ?g]))
>
>> which works!

You're on the right track! ;)


> Using 'd' as 'E' seems weird to me, but whatever floats your boat.

Old habits from mutt/alpine: d = delete...

-- 
           Peter

Re: Mutt/Gnus hybrid for mail?

[Peter Davis]

Charles Philip Chan <cpchan@bell.net> writes:

> On 9 Dec 2014, pfd@pfdstudio.com wrote:
>
>> For me, Summary only shows the unread messages, and not even the rest
>> of the threads they belong to (unless I type 'A T').
>
> For me, I have Gnus set to see unread/ticked article and threads that
> have unread and ticked articles. I have
>
>    1. "gnus-fetch-old-headers" set to "some".
>    2. "gnus-build-sparse-threads" set to "some".
>    
> It is much cleaner this way, since it is not cluttered with articles of
> no interest. If I want to see old read one, I just use "/o".

I just tried this, but it it's not doing anything for me. I'm still only
seeing individual unread messages and not the threads they belong to.

Thanks,
-pd

Re: Mutt/Gnus hybrid for mail?

[Charles Philip Chan]

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On 9 Dec 2014, pfd@pfdstudio.com wrote:

> I just tried this, but it it's not doing anything for me. I'm still
> only seeing individual unread messages and not the threads they belong
> to.

Did you forget to set "gnus-show-threads" to "t"?

Charles

-- 
"It's God.  No, not Richard Stallman, or Linus Torvalds, but God."
(By Matt Welsh)

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Re: Mutt/Gnus hybrid for mail?

[Peter Davis]

Charles Philip Chan <cpchan@bell.net> writes:

> On 9 Dec 2014, pfd@pfdstudio.com wrote:
>
>> I just tried this, but it it's not doing anything for me. I'm still
>> only seeing individual unread messages and not the threads they belong
>> to.
>
> Did you forget to set "gnus-show-threads" to "t"?

It is set to t.

Thanks,
-pd

Re: Mutt/Gnus hybrid for mail?

[Charles Philip Chan]

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On 9 Dec 2014, pfd@pfdstudio.com wrote:

>> Did you forget to set "gnus-show-threads" to "t"?
>
> It is set to t.

Hum, what happens when you press

     C-M-t

?

Charles

-- 
We are MicroSoft.  You will be assimilated.  Resistance is futile.
(Attributed to B.G., Gill Bates)

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Re: Mutt/Gnus hybrid for mail?

[Peter Davis]

Charles Philip Chan <cpchan@bell.net> writes:

> On 9 Dec 2014, pfd@pfdstudio.com wrote:
>
>>> Did you forget to set "gnus-show-threads" to "t"?
>>
>> It is set to t.
>
> Hum, what happens when you press
>
>      C-M-t
>
> ?

I did check it with C-h v gnus-show-threads, but typing C-M-t toggles
threading first off, and then on, as does 'T T'.

-pd