From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/6820 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Sudish Joseph Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: Red GNUS suggestion: pseudo Xref: handling w/o NOV support. Date: 19 Jun 1996 19:30:44 -0400 Sender: sj@mindspring.com Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: coloc-standby.netfonds.no X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1035147220 4849 80.91.224.250 (20 Oct 2002 20:53:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 20:53:40 +0000 (UTC) Cc: ding@ifi.uio.no Return-Path: ding-request@ifi.uio.no Original-Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by deanna.miranova.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA12324 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 1996 16:57:42 -0700 Original-Received: from atreides.erehwon.org (sj@user-168-121-167-78.dialup.mindspring.com [168.121.167.78]) by ifi.uio.no with ESMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id ; Thu, 20 Jun 1996 01:27:17 +0200 Original-Received: (from sj@localhost) by atreides.erehwon.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA00248; Wed, 19 Jun 1996 19:30:44 -0400 Original-To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen's message of 19 Jun 1996 08:31:35 +0200 Original-Lines: 67 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.2.12/Emacs 19.31 Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:6820 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general:6820 Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes: > Sudish Joseph writes: > > My news admin pointed out a good reason for not having Xref: full in > > their overview.fmt. The vast majority of their clients use PC-based > > readers and none of those readers support xref handling.=20 > > That might be a good reason if not for a slight niggle: It's > bullshit. Most modern newsreaders that run under MicroSloth > "operating systems" use the Xref header. (At least that's what I've > been told.) I did a dejanews search on 'xref add' (using "performance" as a keyword was a lose) over news.software.* before I accepted that statement (remember, I was the one wanting xref :-). Most hits fit one of 3 classes: a) INN/NOV faq :-) b) Suggestions that xref be added w/o any performance analysis c) Statements to the effect that no PC readers support xref, so why should J. Random Sysop add it. > Even if it were true -- so what? Adding Xref to the NOV databases > doesn't hurt newsreaders that don't make use of the information. So > not adding Xref to the databases is rather, uhm. Let me stop there > before I get nailed by CDA=B2 (coming soon to an Internet near you). This was more or less my argument. The newsdmin pointed out that there will be a hit in download time due to the extra size of the xover data. The comment about "most PC readers" was in response to me pointing out that an xref-capable reader will download less headers and thus save space, which blew away my argument. He put it rather well: from the pov of an ISP, one of the more important selling points is "headers download faster". Hey, I fought the good fight, stop making me feel guilty. :) > > Hmm, it just struck me. We already have all the message-id's for > > articles that we haven't read. All we have to do is generate a > > transient scorefile that lowered on those msg-ids. This wouldn't be > > slow for even large groups, scoring is very fast in GNUS. > > This is a very good idea. Actually, we don't even have to use > scoring. We just add the Message-IDs to the NoCeM hashtable, which > will efficiently censor all articles that we have already read. Maybe move the hashtb funcs into nnoo or something? A new user might well not enable NoCeM support (or those suckers who, like me, cannot use a free US-released PGP in the US w/o residency, and cannot import a non-US version into the US--has this changed, anyone?) Not a big deal, though. Also, what do you think about adding a adding a test of overview.fmt to nntp-server-opened-hook? I think there's a good idea there. Why not have a probe function that sent XOVER, etc., to the server and determined the optimal config for nntp reading? Running this every time seems bogus...maybe a nntp-suggest-kewl-config command? There aren't very many critical variables to setup here and it might reduce the size of the oh-so-neat-FAQ that Steve Baur has blessed us with. This would let people who have no wish to ever know the meaning of the word XOVER have a decent shot of acheiving their goal. :-) > The drawback here is (of course) that such an approach wouldn't work > if you read one article in one session and the other copy of the > article in another session. We could write the list of Message-IDs > already seen to a file, but that file would grow rather big... Yeah, writing that out to a file seems yucky. How about running that scorefile/hashtb over all groups when quitting GNUS? -Sudish