horrid color choices in 5.4.25

horrid color choices in 5.4.25

[Karl Kleinpaste]

I haven't been watching the ding list for a few days -- too busy and
out of town -- so please take the following with salt as needed.

I upgraded 5.4.15 -> 5.4.25 this morning.  I use a black-on-white
emacs, and the new color selections are _dreadful_.

Notably, please consider:

Item			5.4.15		5.4.25

from content		midnight blue	indianred
subject content		firebrick	firebrick (no change)
header names		dark green	maroon
header content		dark green	indianred4
newsgroups content	indianred	midnight blue

Please observe in 5.4.25 that in, e.g., mail with no "Newsgroups:"
header, the _entire_ header is in some flavor of red...and even with
such a header present, it stays indianred4 unless it's a crosspost to
get the midnight blue.

Do anyone have any idea how annoying an _all-red header_ is?  And how
uninformative it is, compared to the interesting variations present in
the older version?  It all just blurs into a red blob.

What strikes me as particularly gratuitous in this change was that
"from" went from midnight blue to indianred while "newsgroups" went
from indianred to midnight blue.  What was the imagined benefit of
inverting these two?

Below is a diff -u to recover the previous color scheme in the
(background light) case.  I never use a dark background, so I didn't
address that at all.

--karl

--- gnus-5.4.25/gnus-art.el.~1~	Sat Mar  8 20:26:56 1997
+++ gnus-5.4.25/gnus-art.el	Mon Mar 10 09:30:56 1997
@@ -419,13 +419,13 @@
 (defface gnus-header-from-face
   '((((class color)
       (background dark))
      (:foreground "spring green" :bold t :italic t))
     (((class color)
       (background light))
-     (:foreground "indianred" :bold t :italic t))
+     (:foreground "MidnightBlue" :bold t :italic t))
     (t
      (:bold t :italic t)))
   "Face used for displaying from headers."
   :group 'gnus-article-headers
   :group 'gnus-article-highlight)
 
@@ -445,39 +445,39 @@
 (defface gnus-header-newsgroups-face
   '((((class color)
       (background dark))
      (:foreground "yellow" :bold t :italic t))
     (((class color)
       (background light))
-     (:foreground "MidnightBlue" :bold t :italic t))
+     (:foreground "indianred" :bold t :italic t))
     (t
      (:bold t :italic t)))
   "Face used for displaying newsgroups headers."
   :group 'gnus-article-headers
   :group 'gnus-article-highlight)
 
 (defface gnus-header-name-face
   '((((class color)
       (background dark))
      (:foreground "SeaGreen"))
     (((class color)
       (background light))
-     (:foreground "maroon"))
+     (:foreground "DarkGreen"))
     (t
      (:bold t)))
   "Face used for displaying header names."
   :group 'gnus-article-headers
   :group 'gnus-article-highlight)
 
 (defface gnus-header-content-face
   '((((class color)
       (background dark))
      (:foreground "forest green" :italic t))
     (((class color)
       (background light))
-     (:foreground "indianred4" :italic t))
+     (:foreground "DarkGreen" :italic t))
     (t
      (:italic t)))  "Face used for displaying header content."
   :group 'gnus-article-headers
   :group 'gnus-article-highlight)
 
 (defcustom gnus-header-face-alist

Re: horrid color choices in 5.4.25

[Michael Welsh Duggan]

Karl Kleinpaste <karl@jprc.com> writes:

> I haven't been watching the ding list for a few days -- too busy and
> out of town -- so please take the following with salt as needed.
> 
> I upgraded 5.4.15 -> 5.4.25 this morning.  I use a black-on-white
> emacs, and the new color selections are _dreadful_.

To add my comments to this, I hated the new color scheme as well, only
I use a white-on-black (dark) schema.  The headers were all various
shades of green.  I just spent a half-hour going through the
5.4.21-5.4.22 diff changing all of these values back (via custom, of
course).

Not trying to disparage your sense of color, Lars -- but /where/ did
you come up with these colors?  What is /your/ standard
foreground/background color?

-- 
Michael Duggan
(md5i@schenley.com)

Re: horrid color choices in 5.4.25

[Hrvoje Niksic]

Karl Kleinpaste <karl@jprc.com> writes:

> Do anyone have any idea how annoying an _all-red header_ is?

HORRIBLE!  Please, <whoever-made-the-change-lars-i-guess>, we do like
you to experiment with the colors, but be this is really awful.  The
message colors are fine with me, though.  Only cited text needn't be
as red...

-- 
Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia
--------------------------------+--------------------------------
I'm a Lisp variable -- bind me!

Re: horrid color choices in 5.4.25

[Steven L Baur]

Hrvoje Niksic writes:

> Only cited text needn't be as red...

Red cited text is such a *strong* incentive to trim your quotations.
It ought to be worth bonus points in a GNKSA evaluation. :-)
-- 
steve@miranova.com baur
Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be billed at $250/message.

Re: horrid color choices in 5.4.25

[Hrvoje Niksic]

Steven L Baur <steve@miranova.com> writes:

> Red cited text is such a *strong* incentive to trim your quotations.
> It ought to be worth bonus points in a GNKSA evaluation. :-)

Speaking of which, when will Gnus be re-evaluated by GNKSA?  I wonder
what nits the reviewers will pick this time around.

-- 
Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia
--------------------------------+--------------------------------
"What is the sound of Perl?  Is it not the sound of a wall that
people have stopped banging their heads against?" -- Larry Wall

Re: horrid color choices in 5.4.25

[Stainless Steel Rat]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>>>>> "KK" == Karl Kleinpaste <karl@jprc.com> writes:

KK> I upgraded 5.4.15 -> 5.4.25 this morning.  I use a black-on-white
KK> emacs, and the new color selections are _dreadful_.

Here's my patch to cus-face.el to allow the total elimination of colors
without messing with fontification.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3
Charset: cp850

iQCVAwUBMySbqZ6VRH7BJMxHAQEu9QQAmV6KZJIbvkOedCmFtzFrZaoh4htoObbp
+fY20gVgYUgpLorKPuqhMlvxsWqYGgM/Pr7pZrQBeqt9Qua6BDdSnhGTzjJYvvjv
grb7No78A6yThwMkWmoUzf/Wv9DkNU7tkUaRSNNN8coXG1cYCwKDNJWmqUxidHSs
2ry6eaSR/fA=
=vo79
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-- 
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ 
                                    \ 
*** cus-face.el.orig	Sat Mar  8 20:26:54 1997
--- cus-face.el	Sun Mar  9 11:15:34 1997
***************
*** 139,144 ****
--- 139,148 ----
        (set-face-foreground face bg frame)
        (set-face-background face fg frame))))
  
+ (defcustom custom-no-colors nil
+   "Do not use colors.
+ If t, do not use any colors.")
+ 
  (defcustom custom-background-mode nil
    "The brightness of the background.
  Set this to the symbol dark if your background color is dark, light if
***************
*** 379,385 ****
        t
      (let* ((props (custom-get-frame-properties frame))
  	   (type (plist-get props 'type))
! 	   (class (plist-get props 'class))
  	   (background (plist-get props 'background))
  	   (match t)
  	   (entries display)
--- 383,389 ----
        t
      (let* ((props (custom-get-frame-properties frame))
  	   (type (plist-get props 'type))
! 	   (class (if custom-no-colors `mono (plist-get props 'class)))
  	   (background (plist-get props 'background))
  	   (match t)
  	   (entries display)

Re: horrid color choices in 5.4.25

[Danny Siu]

Does anyone like the new color scheme??

The header and header text in message buffer is so hard to read with
mid-tone background.  Also the all-red tone of article header is very,
arrgg, yuuuuukkkiii.

IMHO, the new color scheme is just _horrible_!!!  Please restore the default
back to the original setting (<5.4.24) which I think at least everyone is
used to.

-- 
                                                                ^..^
 '/..\"                                                        ( oo )  )~
m( oo )m                                                         ,,  ,,
/=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\
|  Danny Dick-Fung Siu                http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~dsiu |
|  Reference System Group             http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/~dsiu   |
|  Adobe Systems Incorporated       E-Mail:<dsiu@alumni.eecs.berkeley.edu> |
|       "What do you expect from a         <dsiu@leland.stanford.edu>      |
|          Cal. Berkeley grad.?"           <dsiu@adobe.com>                |
\=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/

Re: horrid color choices in 5.4.25

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Danny Siu <dsiu@Adobe.COM> writes:

> IMHO, the new color scheme is just _horrible_!!!  Please restore the default
> back to the original setting (<5.4.24) which I think at least everyone is
> used to.

I think one can draw the conclusion that the new colors are an
incomplete success.  :-)

Perhaps I should explain my reasoning behind the new colors.  I
generally find that having my eyes presented with an angry fruit salad
is tiring -- especially if the things that are emphasized in this
manner isn't information of vital importance.  I use white-on-black as
my default reading mode, and the old coloring scheme used light blue,
pink, yellow and cyan on the headers.  Most of them bold.  None of
this information is information that people are expected to *read* --
one is supposed to register that it is available, and then skip to the
text.

I wanted the eyes to flow over the headers without any obstruction, so
I chose a series of different green colors.  (For the light background
I chose different red colors.)  It's all seems quite legigible to me,
and I find reading news a more calm experience.  My eyes aren't drawn
to the eye-searing cyan bold header names, but flows automatically to
the text itself.  (The exception to the coloring scheme is the
Newsgroups header whenever crossposting is used, since that is,
indeed, very important information.  It's in yellow on dark screens
and blue on light screens.)

Now, since you all hate it, perhaps it should be changed.  I don't
think reverting to a fruit salad scheme is the right thing to do.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen

Re: horrid color choices in 5.4.25

[David Lebel]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:

[...]
: Now, since you all hate it, perhaps it should be changed.  I don't
: think reverting to a fruit salad scheme is the right thing to do.

  Hey, maybe it's because I too have a black background, but I kinda
  agree with Lars on this.  I like the new message colour scheme,
  although I customized the article colours differently.

  I juste hate fruit salads...on my screen anyway. :)

  ...David

-- 
// d a v i d  l e b e l  <lebel@socom.com>       http://superdave.socom.com/
// analyst / system administrator / hacker          socom technologies, inc.
//   " I find your lack of faith...disturbing. " -- Darth Vader, _Star Wars_

Re: horrid color choices in 5.4.25

[Johan Danielsson]

David Lebel <lebel@socom.com> writes:

> : Now, since you all hate it, perhaps it should be changed.  I don't
> : think reverting to a fruit salad scheme is the right thing to do.
> 
>   Hey, maybe it's because I too have a black background, but I kinda
>   agree with Lars on this.  I like the new message colour scheme,
>   although I customized the article colours differently.

Wouldn't it be easier if everybody just went on and designed their own
colorscheme? In some sense I think it would be rather nice to not have
any colors at all by default (well, black is ok).

I usually sit by my nice 20" gray scale monitor, but when I for some
reason is forced to use a color monitor I always get a bit of a shock
when I start Gnus.

(No, I haven't bothered to turn the coloring off)

/Johan

Re: horrid color choices in 5.4.25

[Robert Bihlmeyer]

Hi,

>>>>> On 11 Mar 1997 14:06:51 +0100
>>>>> joda@pdc.kth.se (Johan Danielsson) said:

 Johan> Wouldn't it be easier if everybody just went on and designed
 Johan> their own colorscheme? In some sense I think it would be
 Johan> rather nice to not have any colors at all by default (well,
 Johan> black is ok).

I disagree. The default colors are the one a new-to-gnus user sees, so
I think they are kinda like coporate identity. And I don't want that
to be b/w.

Of course supporting a one-switch-customization to turn off colors
completely is a Good Thing. But I think the colors should still be on
by default. No need for fruit salad, though.

	Robbe

-- 
Robert Bihlmeyer	reads: Deutsch, English, MIME, Latin-1, NO SPAM!
<robbe@orcus.priv.at>	<http://stud2.tuwien.ac.at/~e9426626/sig.html>

Re: horrid color choices in 5.4.25

[Per Abrahamsen]

My design criteria for the original colors was to maximize the
angriness of the fruit salad, while still being useful.  This should
give the best "catch a newbie" effect.

I think Lars' new colors (on a light background) are much more
tasteful, and I especially like the artistic way the message buffer
parallels the article buffer ;-).

I personally believe the default colors are more important than the
ability to change them.  Maybe the new defaults will attract a
different class of users.  

At some point, it could be fun to support desktop themes in customize.
That is, each face could have many different values depending on which
desktop theme the user had chosen.  This would allow the user to
choose between the old `Angry Fruit Salad' theme and the new `Shades
of Purity' theme.  More themes could be added when the artist among us
feel inspired.

Technically, i.e. from my point of view, it isn't significantly more
complicated than the current situation, where you can define faces
according to color model, background intensity, and font support.  It
would just be one extra parameter.  The hard work would be for the
people designing the themes.

Re: horrid color choices in 5.4.25

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk> writes:

> At some point, it could be fun to support desktop themes in customize.
> That is, each face could have many different values depending on which
> desktop theme the user had chosen.  This would allow the user to
> choose between the old `Angry Fruit Salad' theme and the new `Shades
> of Purity' theme.  More themes could be added when the artist among us
> feel inspired.

Yes, that would be nice.  Luis came up with a number of color
combinations for the Gnus splash logo (under XEmacs), and the user can
choose between these by changing `gnus-xmas-logo-color-style'.  (The
default is `flame'.)  Fiddling with specific colors is much too much
work, while just setting a "style" is quite fun.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen

Re: horrid color choices in 5.4.25

[David Moore]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:

> Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk> writes:
> 
> > At some point, it could be fun to support desktop themes in customize.
> > That is, each face could have many different values depending on which
> > desktop theme the user had chosen.  This would allow the user to
> > choose between the old `Angry Fruit Salad' theme and the new `Shades
> > of Purity' theme.  More themes could be added when the artist among us
> > feel inspired.
> 
> Yes, that would be nice.  Luis came up with a number of color
> combinations for the Gnus splash logo (under XEmacs), and the user can
> choose between these by changing `gnus-xmas-logo-color-style'.  (The
> default is `flame'.)  Fiddling with specific colors is much too much
> work, while just setting a "style" is quite fun.

Just in case anyone here is interested, I've been collecting color
settings from people on the xemacs-beta list.  The settings are being
provided on a web page along with some views of those colorings in
different modes.  The thought here is to let people see different setups
in action and then be able to try them.  I'm hoping this will provide a
potential starting place for collections of consistent color settings,
as mentioned above.

SO, if you have customized your face coloring, fonts, backgrounds,
anything in XEmacs and/or Gnus generally, please send me a copy of your
.Xdefaults, .emacs-options, etc files.  And I'll try to incorporate them
once I get my script working again.

Also, I'd _really_ like full screen captures of people using XEmacs (and
Gnus!), so people can get a feel for things other than Gnus colors.
It's interesting to see how other people layout windows, sizes, screen
background colors, etc.  I'd prefer a URL for gifs, but you can send
mime if you have no web server capability.

-- 
David Moore <dmoore@ucsd.edu>       | Computer Systems Lab      __o
UCSD Dept. Computer Science - 0114  | Work: (619) 534-8604    _ \<,_
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114             | Fax:  (619) 534-1445   (_)/ (_)
<URL:http://oj.egbt.org/dmoore/>    | In a cloud bones of steel.

Re: horrid color choices in 5.4.25

[Jason R. Mastaler]

David Moore <dmoore@UCSD.EDU> writes:

> Just in case anyone here is interested, I've been collecting color
> settings from people on the xemacs-beta list.  The settings are being
> provided on a web page along with some views of those colorings in
> different modes.  The thought here is to let people see different setups
> in action and then be able to try them.  I'm hoping this will provide a
> potential starting place for collections of consistent color settings,
> as mentioned above.
> 
> SO, if you have customized your face coloring, fonts, backgrounds,
> anything in XEmacs and/or Gnus generally, please send me a copy of your
> .Xdefaults, .emacs-options, etc files.  And I'll try to incorporate them
> once I get my script working again.
> 
> Also, I'd _really_ like full screen captures of people using XEmacs (and
> Gnus!), so people can get a feel for things other than Gnus colors.
> It's interesting to see how other people layout windows, sizes, screen
> background colors, etc.  I'd prefer a URL for gifs, but you can send
> mime if you have no web server capability.

Where can we find these web pages to view the collected color
settings and screen captures?

-- 
Jason R. Mastaler                                 jason@mastaler.com

Re: horrid color choices in 5.4.25

[David Moore]

jason@mastaler.com (Jason R. Mastaler) writes:

> David Moore <dmoore@UCSD.EDU> writes:
> 
> > Just in case anyone here is interested, I've been collecting color
> > settings from people on the xemacs-beta list.  The settings are being
> > provided on a web page along with some views of those colorings in
> > different modes.  The thought here is to let people see different setups
> > in action and then be able to try them.  I'm hoping this will provide a
> > potential starting place for collections of consistent color settings,
> > as mentioned above.

> Where can we find these web pages to view the collected color
> settings and screen captures?

They are at <URL:http://oj.egbt.org/xemacs/displays/>.  At the moment
only mailed in screen captures are available.  I'm reworking the scripts
to handle the config files and individualized views.


-- 
David Moore <dmoore@ucsd.edu>       | Computer Systems Lab      __o
UCSD Dept. Computer Science - 0114  | Work: (619) 534-8604    _ \<,_
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114             | Fax:  (619) 534-1445   (_)/ (_)
<URL:http://oj.egbt.org/dmoore/>    | In a cloud bones of steel.

Re: horrid color choices in 5.4.25

[Dan Schmidt]

Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk> writes:

| At some point, it could be fun to support desktop themes in customize.
| That is, each face could have many different values depending on which
| desktop theme the user had chosen.  This would allow the user to
| choose between the old `Angry Fruit Salad' theme and the new `Shades
| of Purity' theme.

Really, must the next version be called Quassia Gnus?  I will not rest
until it is renamed to Shades of Purity Gnus.

I haven't seen the new colors yet, but I like the shades of purity
concept, and use it in general.  Here are my gnus-cite faces as an
example, give them a whirl if you like:

(set-face-foreground 'gnus-cite-face-1 "DarkSlateBlue")
(set-face-foreground 'gnus-cite-face-2 "SlateBlue")
(set-face-foreground 'gnus-cite-face-3 "SteelBlue")
(set-face-foreground 'gnus-cite-face-4 "MediumBlue")
(set-face-foreground 'gnus-cite-face-5 "Navy")

--
     Dan Schmidt        People who are more than casually interested in
Harmonix Music Systems  computers should have at least some idea of what the
dfan@harmonixmusic.com  underlying hardware is like.  Otherwise the programs
                        they write will be pretty weird.  -- Don Knuth

Re: horrid color choices in 5.4.25

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Dan Schmidt <dfan@harmonixmusic.com> writes:

> I haven't seen the new colors yet, but I like the shades of purity
> concept, and use it in general.  Here are my gnus-cite faces as an
> example, give them a whirl if you like:
> 
> (set-face-foreground 'gnus-cite-face-1 "DarkSlateBlue")
> (set-face-foreground 'gnus-cite-face-2 "SlateBlue")
> (set-face-foreground 'gnus-cite-face-3 "SteelBlue")
> (set-face-foreground 'gnus-cite-face-4 "MediumBlue")
> (set-face-foreground 'gnus-cite-face-5 "Navy")

That looked very pretty, but it was somewhat hard to read.  I think
the furious fruit salad approach to citation coloration may be
appropriate -- one (more often than not) needs to read all the text,
and it's important to "feel" who wrote what.  So doing a Shades Of
Purity thing (by default) with the citation colors might be the wrong
thing to do.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen

Re: horrid color choices in 5.4.25

[Robert Bihlmeyer]

Hi,

>>>>> On 12 Mar 1997 17:04:18 +0100
>>>>> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> said:

 Lars> That looked very pretty, but it was somewhat hard to read. I
 Lars> think the furious fruit salad approach to citation coloration
 Lars> may be appropriate -- one (more often than not) needs to read
 Lars> all the text, and it's important to "feel" who wrote what. So
 Lars> doing a Shades Of Purity thing (by default) with the citation
 Lars> colors might be the wrong thing to do.

Perhaps having SOP with different blues is not appropriate. But I
think Fading Into Oblivion would be a good choice for citations: Fruit-
salady hues which get more pale as citation levels rise. This mimics
normall communications, where statements from the distant past are only
vaguely(sp?) remembered. Who said what could be distinguished easily
for recent citations, while the past blurs. 
 
	Robbe

-- 
Robert Bihlmeyer	reads: Deutsch, English, MIME, Latin-1, NO SPAM!
<robbe@orcus.priv.at>	<http://stud2.tuwien.ac.at/~e9426626/sig.html>

Re: horrid color choices in 5.4.25

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Robert Bihlmeyer <e9426626@student.tuwien.ac.at> writes:

> Perhaps having SOP with different blues is not appropriate. But I
> think Fading Into Oblivion would be a good choice for citations: Fruit-
> salady hues which get more pale as citation levels rise. This mimics
> normall communications, where statements from the distant past are only
> vaguely(sp?) remembered. Who said what could be distinguished easily
> for recent citations, while the past blurs. 

That might be an idea, but you seldom see more than (say) four levels
of cited text, which doesn't give you that much to play with.  Only
the cascade-type articles have really many different colors, and who
cares what they look like?  (Well, I do, but...)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen

Re: horrid color choices in 5.4.25

[Robert Bihlmeyer]

Hi,

>>>>> On 14 Mar 1997 20:47:55 +0100
>>>>> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> said:

[Fade Into Oblivion color scheme for citations]

 Lars> That might be an idea, but you seldom see more than (say) four
 Lars> levels of cited text, which doesn't give you that much to play
 Lars> with. Only the cascade-type articles have really many different
 Lars> colors, and who cares what they look like? (Well, I do, but...)

Well, aren't there, like, 8 to 10 faces defined for citation?

In a different track, I think it would be nice to extend the turorial
with some kind of feature-show-off, i.e. one or more articles
presenting the more salient features (citation fruit salad, smilies,
emphasis, etc., etc.) This way, we would have new users drooling more
quickly ("when will Quassia be released, *when*?")

	Robbe

-- 
Robert Bihlmeyer	reads: Deutsch, English, MIME, Latin-1, NO SPAM!
<robbe@orcus.priv.at>	<http://stud2.tuwien.ac.at/~e9426626/sig.html>

Re: horrid color choices in 5.4.25

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Robert Bihlmeyer <e9426626@student.tuwien.ac.at> writes:

> In a different track, I think it would be nice to extend the turorial
> with some kind of feature-show-off, i.e. one or more articles
> presenting the more salient features (citation fruit salad, smilies,
> emphasis, etc., etc.) This way, we would have new users drooling more
> quickly ("when will Quassia be released, *when*?")

Although I'm kinda opposed to it, perhaps it might be a good idea to
include a "sample .gnus.el" file -- one that switches on
*everything*.  With ample comments, of course.  Anybody want to
write such a thing?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen

Re: horrid color choices in 5.4.25

[David Lebel]

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Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:

| Although I'm kinda opposed to it, perhaps it might be a good idea to
| include a "sample .gnus.el" file -- one that switches on
| *everything*.  With ample comments, of course.  Anybody want to
| write such a thing?

  Then, send it to me, so I can include it in my .gnus repository
  page! :) (ref: http://superdave.socom.com/gnus/).

  ...David

- -- 
// d a v i d  l e b e l  <lebel@socom.com>       http://superdave.socom.com/
// analyst / system administrator / hacker          socom technologies, inc.
//   " I find your lack of faith...disturbing. " -- Darth Vader, _Star Wars_

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Re: horrid color choices in 5.4.25

[Wesley Hardaker]

>>>>> In article <m2u3maobko.fsf@proletcult.slip.ifi.uio.no>, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:

Lars> Although I'm kinda opposed to it, perhaps it might be a good idea to
Lars> include a "sample .gnus.el" file -- one that switches on
Lars> *everything*.  With ample comments, of course.  Anybody want to
Lars> write such a thing?

You know, I've always meant to document my .gnus file for specifically
this reason...  I think a sample would be really helpful to those
not-so-expert-elisp coders...

Wes

Re: horrid color choices in 5.4.25

[François Pinard]

Robert Bihlmeyer <e9426626@student.tuwien.ac.at> writes:

| Perhaps having SOP with different blues is not appropriate. But I
| think Fading Into Oblivion would be a good choice for citations: Fruit-
| salady hues which get more pale as citation levels rise. This mimics
| normall communications, where statements from the distant past are only
| vaguely(sp?) remembered. Who said what could be distinguished easily
| for recent citations, while the past blurs. 

That depends of what you want to stress.  Shades of Forgottenedness
would be appropriate if chronological decay is the point.  I thought,
from Lars' message, that he rather wanted to put accent on who wrote what,
and all of us taken together surely more look like a Big Fruit Salad!

In either case, I will surely manage.  There are just plenty of options
to twiddle.  And if I'm really unhappy, I still have the sources!  :-)

-- 
François Pinard         ``Vivement GNU!''        pinard@iro.umontreal.ca
Support Programming Freedom, join our League!  Ask lpf@lpf.org for info!

Re: horrid color choices in 5.4.25

[François Pinard]

joda@pdc.kth.se (Johan Danielsson) writes:

| Wouldn't it be easier if everybody just went on and designed their own
| colorscheme? In some sense I think it would be rather nice to not have
| any colors at all by default (well, black is ok).

Being lazy by nature, I like when things come all pre-configured.  Also,
I do think that people having given a lot of thought on something have
a good chance to come up with something better that what I would do,
in a hurry, one of these mornings.

We saw that many people do not like the current scheme, yet Lars had a
purpose and intent when he did it.  Maybe it's just that the virtues are
not immediately evident nor recognised, and that people are inherently
reluctant to see changes as improvements (unless made by Microsoft :-).

-- 
François Pinard         ``Vivement GNU!''        pinard@iro.umontreal.ca
Support Programming Freedom, join our League!  Ask lpf@lpf.org for info!

Re: horrid color choices in 5.4.25

[Jon Kvebaek]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:

> Now, since you all hate it, perhaps it should be changed.  I don't
> think reverting to a fruit salad scheme is the right thing to do.

I really liked it - especially the article colors. I did however
change message-header-other-face and message-cited-text-face to
Aquamarine and Khaki. They were too dark on a grey10 background.

Does that make me a pervert?
-- 
"The wavelength most dangerous to human life is 7 Hz."

Re: horrid color choices in 5.4.25

[Karl Kleinpaste]

I suppose there are variations on the theme of "what's too visually
distracting" or fruit-salady or whatever.

Personally, I found the previous (background light) scheme very
workable.  The green header names blended non-intrusively against my
white background, and the header contents being similarly mostly green
but with subject & author made to stand out a bit made the whole thing
just visible enough to be noticeable when needed, while not visually
offensive.

If that's fruit salad, well, just shoot me now, I guess.  I tend to
find the hierarchical colorization of quoted text _far_ more
fruit-salady, but even that I rather like.  I don't get stuck on the
header colorization because to me it's really a rather mild set of
selections.

Re: horrid color choices in 5.4.25

[James Kanze]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:

|>  Danny Siu <dsiu@Adobe.COM> writes:
|>  
|>  > IMHO, the new color scheme is just _horrible_!!!  Please restore the default
|>  > back to the original setting (<5.4.24) which I think at least everyone is
|>  > used to.
|>  
|>  I think one can draw the conclusion that the new colors are an
|>  incomplete success.  :-)

Or that only the people who don't like them have bothered posting.

I've not tried them yet, but from the description of your reasoning, I
like them.  (And I definitly agree about the fruit salad effect.  One of
the first things I did with the previous versions was change the colors.)

-- 
James Kanze      home:     kanze@gabi-soft.fr        +33 (0)1 39 55 85 62
                 office:   kanze@vx.cit.alcatel.fr   +33 (0)1 69 63 14 54
GABI Software, Sarl., 22 rue Jacques-Lemercier, F-78000 Versailles France
	    -- Conseils en informatique industrielle --

Re: (not so!) horrid color choices in 5.4.25

[François Pinard]

Karl Kleinpaste <karl@jprc.com> writes:

| the new color selections are _dreadful_.

Maybe to make a counter-weight to a few messages on that topic, I actually
liked the new color scheme when I first saw it.  Too much color just gets
a bit aggressive and distracting, and rather using related colors, shaded
with the usage of proper fonts, seemed much softer and more appealing to
my eyes.

But I surely do not feel ready to sustain a war over this.  There is so
many other things to do :-).

-- 
François Pinard         ``Vivement GNU!''        pinard@iro.umontreal.ca
Support Programming Freedom, join our League!  Ask lpf@lpf.org for info!