Mail messages not queued properly when unplugged.

Mail messages not queued properly when unplugged.

[Malcolm Purvis]

Today I upgraded to the latest version of No Gnus in CVS from a version
about amonth old.  I'm now getting mail messages being deleted when
being sent unplugged rather than being queued.

The minibuffer messages are:

      Reading active file via nnnil...
      Deleting article /Users/malcolmp/News/drafts/queue/1 in nndraft:drafts...
      Sending...done
      Wrote /Users/malcolmp/News/drafts/queue/1
      Sending via mail...
      Sending...

I'm using the latest version of XEmacs 21.5, which worked with the
earlier version of No Gnus.  Any help in tracking down this problem
would be appreciated.

Malcolm

-- 
		     Malcolm Purvis <malcolmp@xemacs.org>

Re: Mail messages not queued properly when unplugged.

[Michael Piotrowski]

On 2008-04-14, Malcolm Purvis <malcolmp@xemacs.org> wrote:

> Today I upgraded to the latest version of No Gnus in CVS from a version
> about amonth old.  I'm now getting mail messages being deleted when
> being sent unplugged rather than being queued.
>
> The minibuffer messages are:
>
>       Reading active file via nnnil...
>       Deleting article /Users/malcolmp/News/drafts/queue/1 in nndraft:drafts...
>       Sending...done
>       Wrote /Users/malcolmp/News/drafts/queue/1
>       Sending via mail...
>       Sending...
>
> I'm using the latest version of XEmacs 21.5, which worked with the
> earlier version of No Gnus.  Any help in tracking down this problem
> would be appreciated.

I've also noticed this problem (with XEmacs 21.4.21).  It *seems* to me
some kind of interaction between smtpmail and the Agent, but I haven't
had time to investigate it further (I also wanted to try Gnus 5.10.10,
which may also have this problem).

Greetings

-- 
Michael Piotrowski, M.A.                               <mxp@dynalabs.de>
Public key at <http://www.dynalabs.de/mxp/pubkey.txt> (ID 0x1614A044)

Re: Mail messages not queued properly when unplugged.

[Malcolm Purvis]

>>>>> "Michael" == Michael Piotrowski <mxp@dynalabs.de> writes:

Michael> It *seems* to me some kind of interaction between smtpmail and
Michael> the Agent [...]

I don't use smtpmail (I use postfix's sendmail wrapper instead), so I
suspect that the problems is in agent, because it shouldn't be trying to
send the message at all when unplugged.

Thanks for the confirmation of the problem.

Malcolm

-- 
		     Malcolm Purvis <malcolmp@xemacs.org>

Re: Mail messages not queued properly when unplugged.

[Michael Piotrowski]

On 2008-04-16, Malcolm Purvis <malcolmp@xemacs.org> wrote:

>> It *seems* to me some kind of interaction between smtpmail and
>> the Agent [...]
>
> I don't use smtpmail (I use postfix's sendmail wrapper instead), so I
> suspect that the problems is in agent, because it shouldn't be trying to
> send the message at all when unplugged.

That's an interesting point.  Yes, then agent seems to be the culprit.

> Thanks for the confirmation of the problem.

Well, thank you for bringing it up.

Do you also see strange behavior with drafts, namely that drafts are not
deleted after they were sent? I also noticed that messages are not
deleted from the queue if there is a message in drafts. All this would
also point to the agent, as it is independent from smtpmail.

Greetings

-- 
Michael Piotrowski, M.A.                               <mxp@dynalabs.de>
Public key at <http://www.dynalabs.de/mxp/pubkey.txt> (ID 0x1614A044)

Re: Mail messages not queued properly when unplugged.

[Norman Walsh]

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/ Michael Piotrowski <mxp@dynalabs.de> was heard to say:
| That's an interesting point.  Yes, then agent seems to be the culprit.
|
|> Thanks for the confirmation of the problem.

I ran into this problem a while ago, but never got around to attempting
to debug it (or perhaps, even report it :-( )

| Do you also see strange behavior with drafts, namely that drafts are not
| deleted after they were sent?

I haven't seen that behavior and I've been using drafts a fair bit (since
queing while offline doesn't work).

                                        Be seeing you,
                                          norm

-- 
Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> | When a book and a head collide and
http://nwalsh.com/            | there is a hollow sound, is it always
                              | the book?-- Lichtenberg

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Re: Mail messages not queued properly when unplugged.

[Michael Piotrowski]

On 2008-05-07, Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> wrote:

> | That's an interesting point.  Yes, then agent seems to be the culprit.
> |
> |> Thanks for the confirmation of the problem.
>
> I ran into this problem a while ago, but never got around to attempting
> to debug it (or perhaps, even report it :-( )

So, judging from your User-Agent: header, this problem is not confined
to XEmacs?

> | Do you also see strange behavior with drafts, namely that drafts are not
> | deleted after they were sent?
>
> I haven't seen that behavior and I've been using drafts a fair bit

Ok, maybe these are different issues then.

> (since queing while offline doesn't work).

Since this is the primary purpose of the agent, I'm tempted to say it is
broken...

Greetings

-- 
Michael Piotrowski, M.A.                               <mxp@dynalabs.de>
Public key at <http://www.dynalabs.de/mxp/pubkey.txt> (ID 0x1614A044)

Re: Mail messages not queued properly when unplugged.

[Norman Walsh]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 878 bytes --]

/ Michael Piotrowski <mxp@dynalabs.de> was heard to say:
| So, judging from your User-Agent: header, this problem is not confined
| to XEmacs?

True. I've never used XEmacs.

|> (since queing while offline doesn't work).
|
| Since this is the primary purpose of the agent, I'm tempted to say it is
| broken...

Indeed. However, FWIW, I upgraded to Gnus from CVS a few days ago,
uhm, because EPG mode no longer needs some special Gnus fiddling, that
was the reason, and now I find that offline mode works again.

So, whatever it was, it's been fixed, at least for me.

                                        Be seeing you,
                                          norm

-- 
Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> | There is no cure for birth and death
http://nwalsh.com/            | save to enjoy the interval.--George
                              | Santayana

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Re: Mail messages not queued properly when unplugged.

[Michael Piotrowski]

On 2008-05-09, Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> wrote:

> | So, judging from your User-Agent: header, this problem is not confined
> | to XEmacs?
>
> True. I've never used XEmacs.
>
> |> (since queing while offline doesn't work).
> |
> | Since this is the primary purpose of the agent, I'm tempted to say it is
> | broken...
>
> Indeed. However, FWIW, I upgraded to Gnus from CVS a few days ago,
> uhm, because EPG mode no longer needs some special Gnus fiddling, that
> was the reason, and now I find that offline mode works again.
>
> So, whatever it was, it's been fixed, at least for me.

I'm happy for you.  I just tried the current CVS version, and,
unfortunately, it still doesn't work with XEmacs: Instead of being
queued, messages sent while offline are simply lost.

Greetings

-- 
Michael Piotrowski, M.A.                               <mxp@dynalabs.de>
Public key at <http://www.dynalabs.de/mxp/pubkey.txt> (ID 0x1614A044)

Re: Mail messages not queued properly when unplugged.

[Katsumi Yamaoka]

>>>>> Malcolm Purvis wrote:
> Today I upgraded to the latest version of No Gnus in CVS from a version
> about amonth old.  I'm now getting mail messages being deleted when
> being sent unplugged rather than being queued.

Does it still happen even now?  I tried No Gnus and XEmacs 21.5,
both are the latest, and had no problem.

> The minibuffer messages are:

> Reading active file via nnnil...
> Deleting article /Users/malcolmp/News/drafts/queue/1 in nndraft:drafts...
> Sending...done
> Wrote /Users/malcolmp/News/drafts/queue/1
> Sending via mail...
> Sending...

Wasn't the file name "drafts/drafts/1", not "drafts/queue/1" ?

If so, it looks as if a mail was really sent (probably it failed
in fact because the mail server was unreachable, though).  If it
really happened, I have only one idea of the cause of it.  That
is that the variable `gnus-agent-send-mail-function' has been
set to a non-nil value before Gnus was agentized.  If you have
something like the following snippet in the ~/.gnus.el file,

(setq gnus-agent-send-mail-function message-send-mail-function)
...[1]

the `message-send-mail-real-function' variable will not be set to
`gnus-agent-send-mail':

(defun gnus-agentize ()
[...]
  (unless gnus-agent-send-mail-function
    (setq gnus-agent-send-mail-function
	  (or message-send-mail-real-function
	      (function (lambda () (funcall message-send-mail-function))))
	  message-send-mail-real-function 'gnus-agent-send-mail))

So what's the value of `message-send-mail-real-function' in your
XEmacs?  It should be `gnus-agent-send-mail' if Gnus is agentized.
If it is left nil that is the default, Message will always use
the value of `message-send-mail-function':

(defun message-send-mail (&optional arg)
[...]
		(funcall (or message-send-mail-real-function
			     message-send-mail-function)))


[1] I actually have it in my ~/.gnus.el file, though I don't
    recall why I did so.  My pc is always connected to the net,
    so I can send mails regardless of the plugged state of Gnus.

Re: Mail messages not queued properly when unplugged.

[Michael Piotrowski]

On 2008-05-30, Katsumi Yamaoka <yamaoka@jpl.org> wrote:

>>>>>> Malcolm Purvis wrote:
>> Today I upgraded to the latest version of No Gnus in CVS from a version
>> about amonth old.  I'm now getting mail messages being deleted when
>> being sent unplugged rather than being queued.
>
> Does it still happen even now?  I tried No Gnus and XEmacs 21.5,
> both are the latest, and had no problem.

For me it still happens with today's CVS (and XEmacs 21.4.21).

>> The minibuffer messages are:
>
>> Reading active file via nnnil...
>> Deleting article /Users/malcolmp/News/drafts/queue/1 in nndraft:drafts...
>> Sending...done
>> Wrote /Users/malcolmp/News/drafts/queue/1
>> Sending via mail...
>> Sending...
>
> Wasn't the file name "drafts/drafts/1", not "drafts/queue/1" ?

No, at least for me.  I get exactly the same behavior:

  Deleting article /home/mxp/News/drafts/queue/1 in nndraft:drafts...
  Sending...done
  Wrote /home/mxp/Mail/archive/sent-mail/2008-06
  Wrote /home/mxp/News/drafts/queue/1
  Sending via mail...

> If so, it looks as if a mail was really sent (probably it failed
> in fact because the mail server was unreachable, though).  If it
> really happened, I have only one idea of the cause of it.

No, the message is neither sent, nor queued--only deleted :-(

> That is that the variable `gnus-agent-send-mail-function' has been set
> to a non-nil value before Gnus was agentized.  [...]
>
> So what's the value of `message-send-mail-real-function' in your
> XEmacs?  It should be `gnus-agent-send-mail' if Gnus is agentized.

For me, that's the case.

I only set

  (setq message-send-mail-function 'smtpmail-send-it)

The value of `message-send-mail-real-function' is
`gnus-agent-send-mail'.

Thanks and greetings

-- 
Michael Piotrowski, M.A.                               <mxp@dynalabs.de>
Public key at <http://www.dynalabs.de/mxp/pubkey.txt> (ID 0x1614A044)

Re: Mail messages not queued properly when unplugged.

[Katsumi Yamaoka]

>>>>> Michael Piotrowski wrote:

>> Does it still happen even now?  I tried No Gnus and XEmacs 21.5,
>> both are the latest, and had no problem.

> For me it still happens with today's CVS (and XEmacs 21.4.21).

>>> The minibuffer messages are:
>>
>>> Reading active file via nnnil...
>>> Deleting article /Users/malcolmp/News/drafts/queue/1 in nndraft:drafts...
>>> Sending...done
>>> Wrote /Users/malcolmp/News/drafts/queue/1
>>> Sending via mail...
>>> Sending...

Oops!  I could reproduce it today with XEmacs and even with Emacs.
(What did I miss last week?)  Anyway now I believe there is
something wrong in Gnus.  I'll investigate it before very long...

Re: Mail messages not queued properly when unplugged.

[Michael Piotrowski]

On 2008-06-04, Katsumi Yamaoka <yamaoka@jpl.org> wrote:

> Oops!  I could reproduce it today with XEmacs and even with Emacs.
> (What did I miss last week?)  Anyway now I believe there is
> something wrong in Gnus.

So do I :-)  The problem appeared shortly before the No Gnus v0.10
release.  So I'm still using an earlier version.

> I'll investigate it before very long...

Thank you very much!

Greetings

-- 
Michael Piotrowski, M.A.                               <mxp@dynalabs.de>
Public key at <http://www.dynalabs.de/mxp/pubkey.txt> (ID 0x1614A044)

Re: Mail messages not queued properly when unplugged.

[Reiner Steib]

On Wed, Jun 04 2008, Michael Piotrowski wrote:

> The problem appeared shortly before the No Gnus v0.10 release.  So
> I'm still using an earlier version.

How short before?  Does it appear in No Gnus 0.8?  Could you pin-point
it to a particular date (by trying cvs co -D DATE ...)?

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Mail messages not queued properly when unplugged.

[Katsumi Yamaoka]

>>>>> Reiner Steib wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 04 2008, Michael Piotrowski wrote:

>> The problem appeared shortly before the No Gnus v0.10 release.  So
>> I'm still using an earlier version.

> How short before?  Does it appear in No Gnus 0.8?  Could you pin-point
> it to a particular date (by trying cvs co -D DATE ...)?

The bug is due to the change that Nils Ackermann made and that I
applied as:

2008-03-18  Nils Ackermann  <nils@ackermath.info>  (tiny change)
[...]
	* message.el (message-disassociate-draft): Specify drafts group name
	fully.

See the article <b4mhcf4jir6.fsf@jpl.org> in this list.  I hasten
to have made it revert in the trunk and the v5-10 branch.
The patch is below.

The problem that happens to Nils should be solved in another way.
I'll look into it further.

Regards,

--- message.el~	2008-05-29 21:40:43 +0000
+++ message.el	2008-06-05 00:43:05 +0000
@@ -6301,9 +6301,9 @@
 (defun message-disassociate-draft ()
   "Disassociate the message buffer from the drafts directory."
   (when message-draft-article
     (nndraft-request-expire-articles
-     (list message-draft-article) "nndraft:drafts" nil t)))
+     (list message-draft-article) "drafts" nil t)))
 
 (defun message-insert-headers ()
   "Generate the headers for the article."
   (interactive)

Re: Mail messages not queued properly when unplugged.

[Katsumi Yamaoka]

>>>>> Katsumi Yamaoka wrote:

> 2008-03-18  Nils Ackermann  <nils@ackermath.info>  (tiny change)
> [...]
> 	* message.el (message-disassociate-draft): Specify drafts group name
> 	fully.

> See the article <b4mhcf4jir6.fsf@jpl.org> in this list.  I hasten
> to have made it revert in the trunk and the v5-10 branch.

> The problem that happens to Nils should be solved in another way.

The problems that Nils Ackermann reported can be found in:
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/66523

Nils, even if `message-disassociate-draft' reverted, you can
achieve making groups' expiry target the nnml:archive group
except that that of the nndraft:drafts group is `delete'.
To do that, use

(setq gnus-parameters '(("\\`drafts\\'" (expiry-target . delete))))

instead of:

(setq gnus-parameters '(("nndraft:drafts" (expiry-target . delete))))

Normally a group name that is passed to a back end isn't
prefixed with the server name.  So, this and the patch to
`nnmh-request-expire-articles' you made are probably wrong
approaches.  Maybe the right way is that
`gnus-request-expire-article' reads the `expiry-target' group
parameter and passes it to a back end.  However, the nndraft
back end is special and it is expected to be not so easy.
I have no plan for the present.

Regards,

Re: Mail messages not queued properly when unplugged.

[Nils Ackermann]

Katsumi Yamaoka <yamaoka@jpl.org> writes:

>>>>>> Katsumi Yamaoka wrote:
>
>> 2008-03-18  Nils Ackermann  <nils@ackermath.info>  (tiny change)
>> [...]
>> 	* message.el (message-disassociate-draft): Specify drafts group name
>> 	fully.
>
>> See the article <b4mhcf4jir6.fsf@jpl.org> in this list.  I hasten
>> to have made it revert in the trunk and the v5-10 branch.
>
>> The problem that happens to Nils should be solved in another way.
>
> The problems that Nils Ackermann reported can be found in:
> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/66523
>
> Nils, even if `message-disassociate-draft' reverted, you can
> achieve making groups' expiry target the nnml:archive group
> except that that of the nndraft:drafts group is `delete'.
> To do that, use
>
> (setq gnus-parameters '(("\\`drafts\\'" (expiry-target . delete))))
>
> instead of:
>
> (setq gnus-parameters '(("nndraft:drafts" (expiry-target . delete))))
>
> Normally a group name that is passed to a back end isn't
> prefixed with the server name.  So, this and the patch to
> `nnmh-request-expire-articles' you made are probably wrong
> approaches.  Maybe the right way is that
> `gnus-request-expire-article' reads the `expiry-target' group
> parameter and passes it to a back end.  However, the nndraft
> back end is special and it is expected to be not so easy.
> I have no plan for the present.

Probably the other part of my change wasn't correct, either.  Maybe
`nnmh-request-expire-articles' should not be called directly by
`nndraft-request-expire-articles' but instead through
`gnus-group-expire-articles-1', because that function takes care of
checking the group parameters.  OTOH, maybe articles should be deleted
unconditionally in the drafts group when sent, instead of being
expired.

I'll look into it again in a couple of weeks, currently I am short of
time.

Nils

-- 
Info: http://www.ackermath.info/

Re: Mail messages not queued properly when unplugged.

[Nils Ackermann]

Nils Ackermann <nils@ackermath.info> writes:

> I'll look into it again in a couple of weeks, currently I am short of
s/of/on/
> time.

-- 
Info: http://www.ackermath.info/

Re: Mail messages not queued properly when unplugged.

[Michael Piotrowski]

On 2008-06-05, Katsumi Yamaoka <yamaoka@jpl.org> wrote:

>>> The problem appeared shortly before the No Gnus v0.10 release.  So
>>> I'm still using an earlier version.
>
>> How short before?  Does it appear in No Gnus 0.8?  Could you pin-point
>> it to a particular date (by trying cvs co -D DATE ...)?
>
> The bug is due to the change that Nils Ackermann made and that I
> applied as:

Thank you for finding it!  It would have taken me quite some time to
find out even which exact version I was using...

> 2008-03-18  Nils Ackermann  <nils@ackermath.info>  (tiny change)
> [...]
> 	* message.el (message-disassociate-draft): Specify drafts group name
> 	fully.
>
> See the article <b4mhcf4jir6.fsf@jpl.org> in this list.  I hasten
> to have made it revert in the trunk and the v5-10 branch.

I just checked it out, and the agent is working again.  This means I can
finally move to the current version.  Great, and again, many thanks!

Greetings from rainy Zurich

-- 
Michael Piotrowski, M.A.                               <mxp@dynalabs.de>
Public key at <http://www.dynalabs.de/mxp/pubkey.txt> (ID 0x1614A044)