OFFTOPIC: Where do you get your elisp?

OFFTOPIC: Where do you get your elisp?

[dave]

I downloaded emacs-20.4 today, and proceeded to look for updates on my
favorite packages.  But alas, on ftp.cis.ohio-state.edu, the latest
update is in 1997!!

Is Elisp dead?

Is there an archive of living Elisp?

Where do you guys get your code?

Dave

Re: OFFTOPIC: Where do you get your elisp?

[William M. Perry]

dave@bfnet.com writes:

> I downloaded emacs-20.4 today, and proceeded to look for updates on my
> favorite packages.  But alas, on ftp.cis.ohio-state.edu, the latest
> update is in 1997!!
> 
> Is Elisp dead?
> 
> Is there an archive of living Elisp?
> 
> Where do you guys get your code?

I write mine. :)

-bp

Re: OFFTOPIC: Where do you get your elisp?

[dave]

>> Where do you guys get your code?

William> I write mine. :)

Cool, Personally I never had time to re-write AUC-TeX or W3.  :-)

Dave

Re: OFFTOPIC: Where do you get your elisp?

[Bill White]

On 03 Aug 1999 11:56:23 -0700
in article <m3wvvcy9pk.fsf@knave.bfnet.com>
dave@bfnet.com said:

  > I downloaded emacs-20.4 today, and proceeded to look for updates
  > on my favorite packages. But alas, on ftp.cis.ohio-state.edu, the
  > latest update is in 1997!!

  > Is Elisp dead?

  > Is there an archive of living Elisp?

  > Where do you guys get your code?

I've collected a bunch of elisp sites at
<url:http://members.wri.com/billw/gnu/index.html>

Also see etc/MORE.STUFF in your 20.4 installation.

Cheers -

bw
-- 
Bill White . billw@wolfram.com . http://members.wri.com/billw

Re: OFFTOPIC: Where do you get your elisp?

[Edward J. Sabol]

I think the current state of elisp archiving is pretty sad. The elisp user
*and* developer communities badly need the equivalent of Perl's impressive
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (or CPAN). 

To answer your question, I get my elisp almost exclusively from the
gnu.emacs.sources newsgroup, but I'm always missing articles since I don't
have time to read news as often as I would like and my news server expires
articles too quickly for my reading habits. (Does anyone know of a searchable
archive for gnu.emacs.sources on the Web?)

I see a lot of novice elisp developers implementing the same features that
others have implemented in the past. Countless times I have seen someone post
to gnu.emacs.sources some elisp code that they just spent days or weeks
writing only to have someone followup and tell them that somebody else wrote
the same thing two or more years ago. The result is that a lot of elisp
development energy is wasted because there is no good archive of elisp
packages! If elisp code isn't incorporated into Emacs (or XEmacs) at some
point, the code is often forgotten and dies, especially if the author doesn't
routinely post updates and/or continue enhancing it. I think it's a major
problem for the Emacs community, but nobody else seems to care.
Unfortunately, I don't have the time or resources to fix it.

Re: OFFTOPIC: Where do you get your elisp?

[William M. Perry]

dave@bfnet.com writes:

> >> Where do you guys get your code?
> 
> William> I write mine. :)
> 
> Cool, Personally I never had time to re-write AUC-TeX or W3.  :-)

Heheheh - if you want to re-write Emacs/W3, please email me... I've got a
very long todo list for it, and no time. :)

-bp

Re: OFFTOPIC: Where do you get your elisp?

[Bruce Stephens]

"Edward J. Sabol" <sabol@alderaan.gsfc.nasa.gov> writes:

> I think the current state of elisp archiving is pretty sad. The
> elisp user *and* developer communities badly need the equivalent of
> Perl's impressive Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (or CPAN).

Well, the elisp-archive was good.  Personally, I use XEmacs mostly, so
since I started using XEmacs21, the packages provide a convenient way
of upgrading things.

> To answer your question, I get my elisp almost exclusively from the
> gnu.emacs.sources newsgroup, but I'm always missing articles since I
> don't have time to read news as often as I would like and my news
> server expires articles too quickly for my reading habits. (Does
> anyone know of a searchable archive for gnu.emacs.sources on the
> Web?)

Well, <URL:http://www.deja.com/> is the obvious one.  I know the
interface changes approximately weekly, but if you can find the
article you're interested in, there's a link so you can get at the
original article format.

Re: OFFTOPIC: Where do you get your elisp?

[Jeremy D. Zawodny]

"Edward J. Sabol" <sabol@alderaan.gsfc.nasa.gov> writes:

> I think the current state of elisp archiving is pretty sad. The elisp user
> *and* developer communities badly need the equivalent of Perl's impressive
> Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (or CPAN). 

[snip]

> Unfortunately, I don't have the time or resources to fix it.

Hm. I may have a bit of free time on my hands... I might be able to
offer the services of a machine and some of my time to build a
browsable archive. (I've suffered the pains of unsuccessfully trying to
find a few lisp packages too many times. DejaNews is good, but not
always the best way to do it.)

I just don't know which would be more appropriate:

 (1) An index-only approach (like www.freshmeat.net)

or

 (2) Something like CPAN (distributed copies of the actual code)

Advantages and disadvantages either way. Maybe a hybrid. Maybe we
could just try and convince would-be Lisp hackers to use Freshmeat? Or
do to many people not have a place where they can put their code (http
or ftp server).

Hm.

Ideas?

Jeremy
-- 
Jeremy D. Zawodny                Web Geek, Perl Hacker, etc.
http://www.wcnet.org/~jzawodn/   jzawodn@wcnet.org

  9:20pm  up 19 days, 21:22,  6 users,  load average: 0.05, 0.09, 0.08

Re: OFFTOPIC: Where do you get your elisp?

[Kai Großjohann]

Jeremy D. Zawodny <jzawodn@wcnet.org> writes:

>  (2) Something like CPAN (distributed copies of the actual code)

I think this would be very wonderful.

kai
-- 
I like BOTH kinds of music.

Re: OFFTOPIC: Where do you get your elisp?

[Eric Marsden]

>>>>> "dave" == dave  <dave@bfnet.com> writes:

  dave> I downloaded emacs-20.4 today, and proceeded to look for
  dave> updates on my favorite packages. But alas, on
  dave> ftp.cis.ohio-state.edu, the latest update is in 1997!!
  dave> 
  dave> Is Elisp dead? Is there an archive of living Elisp?

<URL:http://www.anc.ed.ac.uk/~stephen/emacs/ell.html> is a list of
elisp packages. There is also <URL:http://www.emacs.org/> ; it would
be good to centralize information there.


>>>>> "EjS" == Edward J. Sabol <sabol@alderaan.gsfc.nasa.gov> writes:

 EjS> To answer your question, I get my elisp almost exclusively from
 EjS> the gnu.emacs.sources newsgroup, but I'm always missing articles
 EjS> since I don't have time to read news as often as I would like
 EjS> and my news server expires articles too quickly for my reading
 EjS> habits. (Does anyone know of a searchable archive for
 EjS> gnu.emacs.sources on the Web?)

Dejanews (with a nicer interface than their horrible new thing at
<URL:http://www.exit109.com/~jeremy/news/deja.html>) is searchable. The
GNU mailing lists are also archived at 
 
  <URL:ftp://ftp-mailing-list-archives.gnu.org/>
    
-- 
Eric Marsden
It's elephants all the way down

Re: OFFTOPIC: Where do you get your elisp?

[luis fernandes]

>>>>> "d4jonas" == Jonas Steverud <d4jonas@dtek.chalmers.se> writes:

    d4jonas> ... A CEAN ...

How about OCEAN ?

We'll have to think of something for the 'O' to stand for (I think
this is what is known as a retronym).

Re: OFFTOPIC: Where do you get your elisp?

[Felix Lee]

luis fernandes <elf@ee.ryerson.ca>:
> How about OCEAN ?
> 
> We'll have to think of something for the 'O' to stand for (I think
> this is what is known as a retronym).

the Offtopic Comprehensive Elisp Archive Network?

clearly, "O" stands for "OCEAN".
--

Re: OFFTOPIC: Where do you get your elisp?

[Randal L. Schwartz]

>>>>> "Jonas" == Jonas Steverud <d4jonas@dtek.chalmers.se> writes:

Jonas> A CPAN/CTAN[1] (a CEAN or CELAN or CLEAN?) and then have a
Jonas> webinterface would probably be better then a webpage with
Jonas> pointers. (Never used CPAN.)

Jonas> A CEAN can easily be interfaced with ange-ftp.

Comprehensive Archive Network for Elisp = CANE

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

Re: OFFTOPIC: Where do you get your elisp?

[Edward J. Sabol]

Excerpts from mail: (04-Aug-99) Re: OFFTOPIC:  Where do you get your elisp? by luis fernandes
> How about OCEAN ?

That rocks! Best recommendation yet, IMHO.

My second choice would be CELAN. (CEAN just isn't pronounceable in an obvious
way. CANE works, but I think it is a little boring.)

> We'll have to think of something for the 'O' to stand for (I think
> this is what is known as a retronym).

How about Omnipresent? But unless there are a lot of mirrors, that could be
false advertisement. Perhaps some other word with an "omni-" prefix?

Unfortunately, the ocean.org domain is already taken, but possibly not in
active use? celan.org and cane.org are both available for the taking.

I think if we do go the CPAN-like route that we could reuse a significant
portion of the code the CPAN folks use for mirroring and administration.

It looks like someone is trying to get an archive going on ftp.emacs.org.
Probably should get in contact with that person and/or other FSF people to
get their blessing and support.

Hoping this takes off,
Ed

Re: OFFTOPIC: Where do you get your elisp?

[Arcady Genkin]

> Excerpts from mail: (04-Aug-99) Re: OFFTOPIC:  Where do you get your elisp? by luis fernandes
> > How about OCEAN ?
> > We'll have to think of something for the 'O' to stand for (I think
> > this is what is known as a retronym).

How about "Online"

-- 
Arcady Genkin
"... without money one gets nothing in this world, not even a certificate
of eternal blessedness in the other world..." (S. Kierkegaard)

Re: OFFTOPIC: Where do you get your elisp?

[William M. Perry]

merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) writes:

> >>>>> "Jonas" == Jonas Steverud <d4jonas@dtek.chalmers.se> writes:
> 
> Jonas> A CPAN/CTAN[1] (a CEAN or CELAN or CLEAN?) and then have a
> Jonas> webinterface would probably be better then a webpage with
> Jonas> pointers. (Never used CPAN.)
> 
> Jonas> A CEAN can easily be interfaced with ange-ftp.
> 
> Comprehensive Archive Network for Elisp = CANE

Just imagine the little hyperlink images you could make with a name like
this... 'Get CANEd!'

:)

-bp

Re: OFFTOPIC: Where do you get your elisp?

[Colin Marquardt]

* Eric Marsden <emarsden@mail.dotcom.fr> writes:

>>>>>> "dave" == dave  <dave@bfnet.com> writes:
dave>  Is Elisp dead? Is there an archive of living Elisp?

> <URL:http://www.anc.ed.ac.uk/~stephen/emacs/ell.html> is a list of
> elisp packages. There is also <URL:http://www.emacs.org/> ; it would
> be good to centralize information there.

Another great ressource is
  http://poboxes.com/jari.aalto/elisp.html

Colin

Re: OFFTOPIC: Where do you get your elisp?

[Florian Weimer]

Arcady Genkin <a.genkin@utoronto.ca> writes:

> > > We'll have to think of something for the 'O' to stand for (I think
> > > this is what is known as a retronym).
> 
> How about "Online"

Oh no, not this one. :-/

What about `omniscient' (you can even use the `c' from it), `outdated',
`omnivore', `omniparent', `omnipotent', `omnivag{e,us}'? ;)

What about the XEmacs elisp archives? They have got a packaging system,
too, which supports automatic package retrieval and installation (similar
to Perl).  But it's a pity that some of the packages I consider essential
hardly work on XEmacs (some quail input methods were apparently never
tested on XEmacs 21.1.x, and ada-mode misses a few interesting features,
too).

Re: OFFTOPIC: Where do you get your elisp?

[Greg Stark]

There are at least two, maybe more, attempts to reimplement emacs in other
virtual machines going on now. 

One is to implement it in the Java VM using a combination of Java and Kawa, a
scheme interpreter/compiler which runs the resulting code in the Java VM. 
This is my personal favourite because it leverages the software that's being
developped everywhere for Java for free.

The other is of course guilemacs. 

I can look up pointers on either of these but they shouldn't be too hard to
find.


-- 
greg

Re: OFFTOPIC: Where do you get your elisp?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Greg Stark <gsstark@mit.edu> writes:

> There are at least two, maybe more, attempts to reimplement emacs in other
> virtual machines going on now. 
> 
> One is to implement it in the Java VM using a combination of Java and Kawa, a
> scheme interpreter/compiler which runs the resulting code in the Java VM. 
> This is my personal favourite because it leverages the software that's being
> developped everywhere for Java for free.

*gulp*

> The other is of course guilemacs. 

*double gulp*

> I can look up pointers on either of these but they shouldn't be too hard to
> find.

Erm...  Pointers would be nice.  :-)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: OFFTOPIC: Where do you get your elisp?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

jzawodn@wcnet.org (Jeremy D. Zawodny) writes:

> Hm. I may have a bit of free time on my hands... I might be able to
> offer the services of a machine and some of my time to build a
> browsable archive.

This sounds like a wonderful idea.  A CPAN-style thingie for Emacs
Lisp code would be great.  There's quite a lot of elisp lying around
here and there, but finding what you need is very difficult without
such a resource.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen