From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/11520 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jens Lautenbacher Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: Gnus v5.4.62 is released Date: 08 Jul 1997 04:39:10 +0200 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: jens@lemming0.lem.uni-karlsruhe.de NNTP-Posting-Host: coloc-standby.netfonds.no Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1035151217 30842 80.91.224.250 (20 Oct 2002 22:00:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 22:00:17 +0000 (UTC) Cc: ding@ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Received: from sandy.calag.com (root@sandy [206.190.83.128]) by altair.xemacs.org (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA01073 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 21:04:10 -0700 Original-Received: from xemacs.org (xemacs.cs.uiuc.edu [128.174.252.16]) by sandy.calag.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA09938 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 21:01:30 -0700 Original-Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by xemacs.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA14483 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 23:01:03 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: from jens.metrix.de (jens@jens.metrix.de [194.123.88.124]) by ifi.uio.no with ESMTP (8.6.11/ifi2.4) id for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 04:41:28 +0200 Original-Received: (from jens@localhost) by jens.metrix.de (8.7.6/8.7.3) id EAA00579; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 04:39:13 +0200 Original-To: Hrvoje Niksic X-Face: Z[@OB)("ZvE?ev~1b+b!0ZUB.$%rh.9qE>dVf>q}Q/V?%d`J3gd!LR\aAZ8K)'\Ulb7y-7*.If^;rHl['oa)n_M7E6w+LDKMs"G8_`c)uOS1^}.1|8Ill]7X68X-paeUOpBhz writes: > Jens Lautenbacher writes: > > > Hmm, I may have missed the beginning of the thread, but I assume you > > talk about gnus-read-active-file 'some and gnus-check-new-newsgroups > > 'ask-server; then I see no possibility to keep track of killed > > groups (and easiely list them) without having the list of killed > > groups saved. > > You are right. What I meant is: if changes are being made, let's try > to make Gnus behave logically. > > Logical behaviour includes not creating a 100K or so .newsrc.eld by > default. > I beg to differ. from the beginners point it's still a bit difficult to set up a gnus environment. Looking at other news readers (blasphemy, I know) I can simply list all the groups and enter them. All these subtle differences between subscribed /unsbscribed/killed and so on are very nice once I have set up my whole environment. But it's extremely non-logical if suddenly I can't access the whole feed anymore without explicitely reloading the active file -- and even at a fast scientific internet access with a fast computer it still takes damned long to load the whole active file from the server. Besides that a newbie will not know what to do, and will switch to tin after 5 minutes without getting what he wants (yeah yeah, RTFM, I know. _I_ do, but we all know our users). The thousands of different listing/loading/browsing commands don't help either, as they are layed out in a totally flat way: there is no "hirarchy" build of them with "general" commands which do the right thing most of the time and "expert" commands, unfortunately. Even the menu doesn't suggest such a hirarchy. Conclusion: Follow the principle of least surprise, and that mean: Selecting "List killed groups" selects the killed groups. Point. Don't assume all a user understand the difference between C-u A k and A k; and hey why is there a own list active A A.... has a C-u A A a different effect..... all of course just IMHO jtl