Gnus always fetching all messages from nntp server

Gnus always fetching all messages from nntp server

[Gabe Logan]

Hi,

I've just started using Gnus and I don't understand why is it always
fetching all messages from server when I'm entering a nntp
newsgroup. Event when I tell Gnus to fetch only 50 of about 80.000
messages it fetches about 20.000k what takes a while. Setting all
messages as read (with command `c') doesn't change anything. Please help
me with this because it drives me crazy.

Thanks
x_x
Gabe

Re: Gnus always fetching all messages from nntp server

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Gabe Logan <session13@poczta.fm> writes:

> I've just started using Gnus and I don't understand why is it always
> fetching all messages from server when I'm entering a nntp
> newsgroup. Event when I tell Gnus to fetch only 50 of about 80.000
> messages it fetches about 20.000k what takes a while.

Have you set `gnus-fetch-old-headers'?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Gnus always fetching all messages from nntp server

[Gabe Logan]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> Gabe Logan <session13@poczta.fm> writes:
>
>> I've just started using Gnus and I don't understand why is it always
>> fetching all messages from server when I'm entering a nntp
>> newsgroup. Event when I tell Gnus to fetch only 50 of about 80.000
>> messages it fetches about 20.000k what takes a while.
>
> Have you set `gnus-fetch-old-headers'?

Thanks, I've unset gnus-fetch-old-headers and now it fetches only unread
messages. But when gnus-fetch-old-headers is t, shouldn't Gnus fetch
only those old headers which belongs to unread messages ? I had all messages
marked as read (with `c' command) but Gnus still fetched them all.

-- 
Thanks
Gabe

Re: Gnus always fetching all messages from nntp server

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Gabe Logan <session13@poczta.fm> writes:

> Thanks, I've unset gnus-fetch-old-headers and now it fetches only unread
> messages. But when gnus-fetch-old-headers is t, shouldn't Gnus fetch
> only those old headers which belongs to unread messages ? 

I'm not sure what you mean.  If you don't have `gnus-fetch-old-headers'
set, it fetches only the headers for the articles you request (which is
normally the unread articles).  If you have it set, it fetches all headers.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Gnus always fetching all messages from nntp server

[Gabe Logan]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> Gabe Logan <session13@poczta.fm> writes:
>
>> Thanks, I've unset gnus-fetch-old-headers and now it fetches only unread
>> messages. But when gnus-fetch-old-headers is t, shouldn't Gnus fetch
>> only those old headers which belongs to unread messages ? 
>
> I'm not sure what you mean.  If you don't have `gnus-fetch-old-headers'
> set, it fetches only the headers for the articles you request (which is
> normally the unread articles).  If you have it set, it fetches all headers.

I'll try to make it clear. I wanted Gnus to make A T command on every
unread article when entering group buffer. This way, when I have no
unread articles, Gnus won't fetch any headers from server. But if
someone will post to a old thread, Gnus will show this message in my
buffer along with all predecesing posts in this thread. The time Gnus
will spend on fetching messages for one or few threads should be much
smaller then when fetching all 80.000+ messages available on server.

Now, when I discovered the A T command I don't really think that the
described above functionality is necessery. Someone who reads his news
every day doesn't need to go through the whole thread every time he gets
new message (no time wasted on fetching old msgs). And in case of need
he can use A T to see whole thread.

-- 
Thanks
Gabe

Re: Gnus always fetching all messages from nntp server

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Gabe Logan <session13@poczta.fm> writes:

> I'll try to make it clear. I wanted Gnus to make A T command on every
> unread article when entering group buffer. This way, when I have no
> unread articles, Gnus won't fetch any headers from server. But if
> someone will post to a old thread, Gnus will show this message in my
> buffer along with all predecesing posts in this thread. The time Gnus
> will spend on fetching messages for one or few threads should be much
> smaller then when fetching all 80.000+ messages available on server.

There's no way to do that without fetching all the headers for all the
articles in the group.  NNTP doesn't offer a "return headers for the
threads where these articles appear in".  NNTP doesn't even have a
concept of threading.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Gnus always fetching all messages from nntp server

[Gabe Logan]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> There's no way to do that without fetching all the headers for all the
> articles in the group.  NNTP doesn't offer a "return headers for the
> threads where these articles appear in".  NNTP doesn't even have a
> concept of threading.

Thanks for explanation :)

-- 
Gabe

Re: Gnus always fetching all messages from nntp server

[Russ Allbery]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> There's no way to do that without fetching all the headers for all the
> articles in the group.  NNTP doesn't offer a "return headers for the
> threads where these articles appear in".

Well, you can get all parents by retrieving overview information by
message ID (OVER <msgid>), and if the server supports XPAT on References,
you can get the rest of the thread with XPAT searches.  I'm not sure if it
would end up being more efficient than what Gnus is doing now, due to the
round trips required, but it would send less data over the network.

-- 
Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu)             <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Re: Gnus always fetching all messages from nntp server

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> writes:

> Well, you can get all parents by retrieving overview information by
> message ID (OVER <msgid>), and if the server supports XPAT on References,
> you can get the rest of the thread with XPAT searches.  I'm not sure if it
> would end up being more efficient than what Gnus is doing now, due to the
> round trips required, but it would send less data over the network.

I seem to remember fiddling with this back in the '90s (or something),
and XPAT was very slow on the server I tested with, so I just gave up...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Gnus always fetching all messages from nntp server

[Russ Allbery]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
> Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> writes:

>> Well, you can get all parents by retrieving overview information by
>> message ID (OVER <msgid>), and if the server supports XPAT on
>> References, you can get the rest of the thread with XPAT searches.  I'm
>> not sure if it would end up being more efficient than what Gnus is
>> doing now, due to the round trips required, but it would send less data
>> over the network.

> I seem to remember fiddling with this back in the '90s (or something),
> and XPAT was very slow on the server I tested with, so I just gave up...

Yeah, few servers maintain any server-side indices, so XPAT searches on
the server involve loading the entire overview for the group and doing
string comparisons on each entry.

In theory, this could all be much faster, but I'm not sure anyone's
bothered since XPAT is so rarely used.

-- 
Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu)             <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Re: Gnus always fetching all messages from nntp server

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>:

> I seem to remember fiddling with this back in the '90s (or something),
> and XPAT was very slow on the server I tested with, so I just gave
> up...

Of course, when you write your own NNTP server, you could give it a fast
XPAT...?

Re: Gnus always fetching all messages from nntp server

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Steinar Bang <sb@dod.no> writes:

> Of course, when you write your own NNTP server, you could give it a fast
> XPAT...?

It wouldn't be generally useful...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen