[POLL]: Procmail or native gnus splitting ?

[POLL]: Procmail or native gnus splitting ?

[Xavier Maillard]

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Hello,

I am just submitting a poll on every Gnus board I can to ask people
what do they use to classify theirs mails.

It is a consequence of the redaction of an article on 'how to get IMAP
and Gnus play fairly together' on the Gnus French site [1]. There, I've
been told not to talk about nnimap splitting feature because numerous
people used to use procmail base filter to split their incoming mails.

As I don't (use procmail), I would like to know the percentage of Gnus user using the
native (awesome) splitting feature of Gnus.

In the same way, does procmail allows Gnus or any other MUA, to poll
their mails directly or does it force the use of another 3rd party tool
such as fetchmail to achieve this task ?

Sorry to bother but as long as nobody can show me the benefit at using
procmail/fetmail stuff, I don't really see the point ;) The only thing
I was told is that it is easier to switch my MUA when using
procmail. But how somebody can change from Gnus to another one ? :)

Regards,

zeDek

Footnotes: 
[1] http://gnusfr.org
-- 
http://www.gnusfr.org -- French Gnus user site

Anti-war disclaimer:
	"Bombing for peace is like fucking for virginity"

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Re: [POLL]: Procmail or native gnus splitting ?

[Malcolm Purvis]

>>>>> "Xavier" == Xavier Maillard <zedek@gnu-rox.org> writes:

Xavier> As I don't (use procmail), I would like to know the percentage of Gnus
Xavier> user using the native (awesome) splitting feature of Gnus.

I use native splitting both at home and at work.

-- 
	       Malcolm Purvis <malcolmpurvis@optushome.com.au>

Q: Why did the chicken cross the Mobius strip?
A: To get to the other... uh... err...

Re: [POLL]: Procmail or native gnus splitting ?

[Matthias Andree]

Xavier Maillard <zedek@gnu-rox.org> writes:

> Hello,
>
> I am just submitting a poll on every Gnus board I can to ask people
> what do they use to classify theirs mails.

I use maildrop because I handle some high-volume folders with mutt
rather than Gnus.

procmail stinks, it's hard to use correctly (error handling) and results
in bloated and near unreadable configuration files; after virtually
every rule you need

:0e
{ EXITCODE=75 HOST }

which essentially defeats :0E rules on the go.

I had tried Gnus-split some time ago, it worked for me.

-- 
Matthias Andree

Re: [POLL]: Procmail or native gnus splitting ?

[Jochen Küpper]

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:37:57 +0200 Xavier Maillard wrote:

Xavier> Sorry to bother but as long as nobody can show me the benefit
Xavier> at using procmail/fetmail stuff, I don't really see the point
Xavier> ;) The only thing I was told is that it is easier to switch my
Xavier> MUA when using procmail. But how somebody can change from Gnus
Xavier> to another one ? :)

Just to add a little more... I use sieve on the imap server to split
my mail. 

That has advantages for me because I actually do use the a
web-interface to the imap-server once in a while and that's exactly
when I need the splitting most. (Because then I am probably on a slow
and expensive line and want to only look at a few important messages.)

Greetings,
Jochen
-- 
Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit                http://www.Jochen-Kuepper.de
    Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité                GnuPG key: CC1B0B4D
        Sex, drugs and rock-n-roll

Re: [POLL]: Procmail or native gnus splitting ?

[Karl Pflästerer]

On 11 Jul 2003, Xavier Maillard <- zedek@gnu-rox.org wrote:

> I am just submitting a poll on every Gnus board I can to ask people
> what do they use to classify theirs mails.

I use fancy-splitting rules from Gnus.


   KP

-- 
   Mary had a little lambda,
   Its syntax white as snow,
   And every program Mary wrote,
   She wrote in Lisp, you know.

Re: [POLL]: Procmail or native gnus splitting ?

[Chris Halverson]

Xavier Maillard <zedek@gnu-rox.org> writes:

> Sorry to bother but as long as nobody can show me the benefit at using
> procmail/fetmail stuff, I don't really see the point ;) The only thing
> I was told is that it is easier to switch my MUA when using
> procmail. But how somebody can change from Gnus to another one ? :)

I use maildrop on the server to split my mail.

The main benefit to using server based filtering is that you can use
other mail readers. Yeah, I love Gnus and have used it since September
Gnus, but sometimes I'm places where I don't have ssh access, but do
have web access, therefore I can still have all my filtering done
while not using Gnus and not loose any functionality.

I honestly have never used Gnus' filtering. I used procmail (w/ UW
IMAP) for years, but have switched to maildrop (w/ Courier IMAP) and
wouldn't trade it for anything.

cdh

-- 
Chris D. Halverson                         http://www.halverson.org/
YIM/AIM: chrisdhal                         MSN: chrisdhal@msn.com

Re: [POLL]: Procmail or native gnus splitting ?

[Steve Evans]

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On 11 Jul 2003, zedek@gnu-rox.org wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I am just submitting a poll on every Gnus board I can to ask people
> what do they use to classify theirs mails.
>
> It is a consequence of the redaction of an article on 'how to get
> IMAP and Gnus play fairly together' on the Gnus French site [1].
> There, I've been told not to talk about nnimap splitting feature
> because numerous people used to use procmail base filter to split
> their incoming mails.
>

I use both procmail and Gnus splitting. Procmail is used to separate
stuff from mailing lists and spam into their own spool files. Gnus
splitting is then used to refine the remainder.

I do it like this so that I can use a biff type program, in my case
kbiff, which only looks at the default spool file. That way it tells
me when I have important mail that I should probably look at now, but
not have it get swamped by stuff that can wait. I use the same setup
at work, where it is particularly useful.

Steve
- -- 
____________________________________________________________________
Steve Evans            E-mail: mailto:stevee@gorbag.com
                       WEB:    http://www.gorbag.com
Registered Linux user #217906: http://counter.li.org
Public Encyption Key:          http://www.gorbag.com/public-key.html
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Re: [POLL]: Procmail or native gnus splitting ?

[Kai Großjohann]

Xavier Maillard <zedek@gnu-rox.org> writes:

> As I don't (use procmail), I would like to know the percentage of
> Gnus user using the native (awesome) splitting feature of Gnus.

I have used Gnus splitting (both plain and fancy) and procmail (with
nnml) and also Sieve (with a Cyrus IMAP server).

All of them work well.

The advantage of the Gnus splitting is that it is better integrated
with Gnus (see nnmail-split-fancy-with-parent, for instance).

The advantage of the external methods is that they are somewhat
faster: splitting happens when the mail arrives, rather than when you
hit g.

> In the same way, does procmail allows Gnus or any other MUA, to poll
> their mails directly or does it force the use of another 3rd party tool
> such as fetchmail to achieve this task ?

Normally, procmail deposits mail in files in your home dir, where
Gnus picks them up.

-- 
~/.signature

Re: [POLL]: Procmail or native gnus splitting ?

[Nicolas Kowalski]

Xavier Maillard <zedek@gnu-rox.org> writes:

> As I don't (use procmail), I would like to know the percentage of Gnus user using the
> native (awesome) splitting feature of Gnus.

I use server side sorting with procmail/uw-mailutils. This has the
advantage to make it MUA-independent, as I use Gnus/nnimap and Pine
together, as well as a Webmail when I am out of office.

Regards.

-- 
Nicolas

Re: [POLL]: Procmail or native gnus splitting ?

[Mikael Cardell]

I use the Gnus splitting for personal mail, but not for mailing
lists. I subscribe to mailing lists by importing them to newsgroups on
my local News server or by reading them through the Gmane NNTP server.

MC

Re: [POLL]: Procmail or native gnus splitting ?

[Danny Siu]

i write my own defun for splitting my imap emails.

Xavier Maillard writes:

  Xavier> Hello, I am just submitting a poll on every Gnus board I can to
  Xavier> ask people what do they use to classify theirs mails.

  Xavier> It is a consequence of the redaction of an article on 'how to get
  Xavier> IMAP and Gnus play fairly together' on the Gnus French site
  Xavier> [1]. There, I've been told not to talk about nnimap splitting
  Xavier> feature because numerous people used to use procmail base filter
  Xavier> to split their incoming mails.

  Xavier> As I don't (use procmail), I would like to know the percentage of
  Xavier> Gnus user using the native (awesome) splitting feature of Gnus.

  Xavier> In the same way, does procmail allows Gnus or any other MUA, to
  Xavier> poll their mails directly or does it force the use of another 3rd
  Xavier> party tool such as fetchmail to achieve this task ?

  Xavier> Sorry to bother but as long as nobody can show me the benefit at
  Xavier> using procmail/fetmail stuff, I don't really see the point ;) The
  Xavier> only thing I was told is that it is easier to switch my MUA when
  Xavier> using procmail. But how somebody can change from Gnus to another
  Xavier> one ? :)

  Xavier> Regards,

  Xavier> zeDek

  Xavier> Footnotes:
  Xavier> [1] http://gnusfr.org
  Xavier> -- http://www.gnusfr.org -- French Gnus user site

  Xavier> Anti-war disclaimer:
  Xavier> 	"Bombing for peace is like fucking for virginity"

-- 
Danny Siu

Re: [POLL]: Procmail or native gnus splitting ?

[Johan Bockgård]

Steve Evans <stevee@gorbag.com> writes:

> On 11 Jul 2003, zedek@gnu-rox.org wrote:
>
>> I am just submitting a poll on every Gnus board I can to ask people
>> what do they use to classify theirs mails.
[...]

> I use both procmail and Gnus splitting. Procmail is used to separate
> stuff from mailing lists and spam into their own spool files. Gnus
> splitting is then used to refine the remainder.

Me too.

Re: [POLL]: Procmail or native gnus splitting ?

[Henrik Enberg]

Xavier Maillard <zedek@gnu-rox.org> writes:

> As I don't (use procmail), I would like to know the percentage of Gnus user using the
> native (awesome) splitting feature of Gnus.

I use it Gnus native splitting exclusively.

Re: [POLL]: Procmail or native gnus splitting ?

[Xavier Maillard]

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On 15 jui 2003, Jesper Harder wrote:

>  Xavier Maillard <zedek@gnu-rox.org> writes:
>  
> >  It is a consequence of the redaction of an article on 'how to get
> >  IMAP and Gnus play fairly together' on the Gnus French site
> >  [1]. There, I've been told not to talk about nnimap splitting
> >  feature because numerous people used to use procmail base filter to
> >  split their incoming mails.
>  
>  I use both procmail and nnmail-split-fancy.
>  
>  I normally read mail from a dial-up connection -- I don't want to
>  waste time and money downloading spam.  So I use procmail to send
>  spam to /dev/null on a permanently connected box.  I then use Gnus'
>  native splitting to sort my mail into different folders.
>  
> >  In the same way, does procmail allows Gnus or any other MUA, to
> >  poll their mails directly
>  
>  Yes.
>  
> >  Sorry to bother but as long as nobody can show me the benefit at
> >  using procmail/fetmail stuff
>  
>  fetchmail isn't really related to procmail.  fetchmail is a
>  replacement for pop3.el.  I use fetchmail because it's faster and has
>  more features than pop3.el.


Well as I can't answer to all of you, just a quick thanks to all of you
who have answered to this thread :)

AFAIK, this is still 50%-50% and even with some good explanations, I
still can't imagine myself trying to use an external tool to split my
mails.

For sure it depends on the conditions use. For my part, I am really
happy with all the gnus split thinggies and won't change that for a
while :)

Just by curiosity, I have read a few messages talking about sieve, what
is that ??

Regards,

zeDek
-- 
http://www.gnusfr.org -- French Gnus user site

Anti-war disclaimer:
	"Bombing for peace is like fucking for virginity"

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Re: [POLL]: Procmail or native gnus splitting ?

[Jesper Harder]

Xavier Maillard <zedek@gnu-rox.org> writes:

> It is a consequence of the redaction of an article on 'how to get IMAP
> and Gnus play fairly together' on the Gnus French site [1]. There, I've
> been told not to talk about nnimap splitting feature because numerous
> people used to use procmail base filter to split their incoming
> mails.

I use both procmail and nnmail-split-fancy.

I normally read mail from a dial-up connection -- I don't want to
waste time and money downloading spam.  So I use procmail to send spam
to /dev/null on a permanently connected box.  I then use Gnus' native
splitting to sort my mail into different folders.

> In the same way, does procmail allows Gnus or any other MUA, to poll
> their mails directly

Yes.

> Sorry to bother but as long as nobody can show me the benefit at using
> procmail/fetmail stuff

fetchmail isn't really related to procmail.  fetchmail is a
replacement for pop3.el.  I use fetchmail because it's faster and has
more features than pop3.el.

Re: [POLL]: Procmail or native gnus splitting ?

[Jochen Küpper]

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On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 00:51:42 +0200 Xavier Maillard wrote:

Xavier> Just by curiosity, I have read a few messages talking about sieve, what
Xavier> is that ??

RFC 3028 :)   see http://www.cyrusoft.com/sieve/

Greetings,
Jochen
-- 
Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit                http://www.Jochen-Kuepper.de
    Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité                GnuPG key: CC1B0B4D
        Sex, drugs and rock-n-roll

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Re: [POLL]: Procmail or native gnus splitting ?

[Kai Großjohann]

Xavier Maillard <zedek@gnu-rox.org> writes:

> AFAIK, this is still 50%-50% and even with some good explanations, I
> still can't imagine myself trying to use an external tool to split my
> mails.

This is certainly not a bad decision.

> Just by curiosity, I have read a few messages talking about sieve, what
> is that ??

It's a language for specifying splitting, some IMAP servers (Cyrus in
particular) have Sieve support built-in.

For the most part, it does what procmail does, but procmail is more
powerful.  For instance, it can invoke commands which Sieve cannot do.
Some people might say that Sieve is preferable because the syntax is
easier on the eyes.  That's just a matter of taste, though.  After
all, I like Perl, weird syntax or not.
-- 
~/.signature

Re: [POLL]: Procmail or native gnus splitting ?

[Wes Hardaker]

>>>>> On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:37:57 +0200, Xavier Maillard <zedek@gnu-rox.org> said:

Xavier> As I don't (use procmail), I would like to know the percentage
Xavier> of Gnus user using the native (awesome) splitting feature of
Xavier> Gnus.

The primary reason I use procmail to do splitting is that it happens
*before* I download mail.  Most importantly, it does 2 things:

1) it means I only check the mail boxes (and mail) that I want to
   check when I'm not on my local network directly connected to the
   server.  When I'm 1/3rd the way around the world, I don't read all
   my mail.  Only the important stuff.

2) It allows me to use other mail readers as well with the same
   filtering.  granted I don't do this that much, but when I do I'm
   certainly happy that its been presorted already.

-- 
"In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap,
 and much more difficult to find."  -- Terry Pratchett

Re: [POLL]: Procmail or native gnus splitting ?

[Scott Kullberg]

Henrik Enberg <henrik@enberg.org> writes:

> Xavier Maillard <zedek@gnu-rox.org> writes:
>
>> As I don't (use procmail), I would like to know the percentage of Gnus user using the
>> native (awesome) splitting feature of Gnus.
>
> I use it Gnus native splitting exclusively.

As do I. I've got procmail in the loop, but all it does currently is
call 'spamc'. I might someday have it do a little splitting of personal
mail vs list mail so I can monitor and incorporate them separately, but
that hasn't been itchy enough to scratch just yet.

      
-- 
Scott E Kullberg  --><--  sekullbe@comcast.net
"Someone asked me yesterday if Dracula met Saruman and there was a
fight, who would win. I just looked at this man. What an idiotic thing
to say. I mean, really, it was half-witted."  -- Christopher Lee

Re: [POLL]: Procmail or native gnus splitting ?

[Jochen Küpper]

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:02:16 +0200 Kai Großjohann wrote:

Kai> For the most part, it [sieve] does what procmail does, but
Kai> procmail is more powerful. For instance, it can invoke commands
Kai> which Sieve cannot do.

Which is exactly the "reason" why I use sieve... 

Admins of larger mail-servers often deny to install procmail because
you can run programs from it... Now they have sieve that's even ok IMHO.

Greetings,
Jochen
-- 
Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit                http://www.Jochen-Kuepper.de
    Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité                GnuPG key: CC1B0B4D
        Sex, drugs and rock-n-roll

Re: [POLL]: Procmail or native gnus splitting ?

[Kirk Strauser]

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At 2003-07-13T17:57:35Z, Jochen Küpper <jochen@fhi-berlin.mpg.de> writes:

> Just to add a little more... I use sieve on the imap server to split
> my mail. 

Likewise.  Sieve + Cyrus IMAP + Squirrelmail means that I can read my email
on my in-laws' WebTV when I have to go on the periodic 1100-mile roadtrip to
my wife's old home.  I don't have to rely on Emacs to split my mail
appropriately (even though it did an outstanding job when it was my primary
mail sorter); it just magically appears in the correct folders on the server
for my viewing convenience.
-- 
Kirk Strauser

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Re: [POLL]: Procmail or native gnus splitting ?

[Mats Lidell]

>>>>> Xavier wrote:

[...]

Xavier> It is a consequence of the redaction of an article on 'how to
Xavier> get IMAP and Gnus play fairly together' on the Gnus French
Xavier> site [1]. There, I've been told not to talk about nnimap
Xavier> splitting feature because numerous people used to use procmail
Xavier> base filter to split their incoming mails.

[...]

Xavier> Sorry to bother but as long as nobody can show me the benefit
Xavier> at using procmail/fetmail stuff, I don't really see the point
Xavier> ;) The only thing I was told is that it is easier to switch my
Xavier> MUA when using procmail. But how somebody can change from Gnus
Xavier> to another one ? :)

Well, I find it somewhat logic to use server side splitting with IMAP
since it is a server side technology. Since the mail is kept in one
place it makes sense to store the splitting logic at the same place.

You don't even have to change the MUA to get into problems. Just use
GNUS from a different location and you will have a maintenance problem
where to store or how to distribute the GNUS splitting rules.

Yours
-- 
%% Mats