From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/15646 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Shutko Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: Gnus v5.6.24 is released Date: 15 Jul 1998 14:02:47 -0500 Sender: owner-ding@hpc.uh.edu Message-ID: References: <199807112117.OAA10778@dzur.kerch.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: coloc-standby.netfonds.no X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1035154641 23264 80.91.224.250 (20 Oct 2002 22:57:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 22:57:21 +0000 (UTC) Return-Path: Original-Received: from gwyn.tux.org (gwyn.tux.org [207.96.122.8]) by altair.xemacs.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA16148 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 12:10:33 -0700 Original-Received: from gizmo.hpc.uh.edu (gizmo.hpc.uh.edu [129.7.102.31]) by gwyn.tux.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA24993 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 15:07:18 -0400 Original-Received: from sina.hpc.uh.edu (sina.hpc.uh.edu [129.7.3.5]) by gizmo.hpc.uh.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAT30689; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 13:40:56 -0500 Original-Received: by sina.hpc.uh.edu (TLB v0.09a (1.20 tibbs 1996/10/09 22:03:07)); Wed, 15 Jul 1998 14:03:41 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: from sclp3.sclp.com (root@sclp3.sclp.com [209.195.19.139]) by sina.hpc.uh.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA07960 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 14:03:32 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: from wugate.wustl.edu (wugate.wustl.edu [128.252.120.1]) by sclp3.sclp.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA08374 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 15:03:28 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from hubert.wuh.wustl.edu (ats@nb22-pool-13.wustl.edu [128.252.113.13]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA28321 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 14:03:18 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: (from ats@localhost) by hubert.wuh.wustl.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA25097; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 14:02:48 -0500 Original-To: "(ding)" In-Reply-To: Stainless Steel Rat's message of "15 Jul 1998 14:19:37 -0400" Original-Lines: 67 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 Precedence: list X-Majordomo: 1.94.jlt7 Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:15646 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general:15646 >>>>> "R" == Stainless Steel Rat writes: R> So yes, on a 101-key keyboard, Alt and Meta are the same thing. >> No. On a 101 key keyboard, there is no keycap with Meta on it. R> Yes, there is... it is called "Alt" rather than "Meta" but it R> serves an identical purpose. So Alt is really Meta? It doesn't serve the same purpose. It generates Alt. It doesn't generate Meta. X may be set up to treat the two as the same, but that's not something the keyboard has any control of. There are two levels here. At the keyboard level, there's no Meta. >> However, one can tell X that the Meta key is anything you like. I >> could tell X that my Meta key is the key labeled on my keyboard >> "Scroll Lock". R> Of course, you would lose that key's normal function, in this case R> XON/XOFF toggle. What nromal function? It doesn't toggle XON and XOFF for me. Not surprisingly, because XON and XOFF don't mean anything for X. It toggles a nice light on my keyboard and does nothing, even in xterm. Besides, the point was that as above, there are two different layers, and in neither layer are Alt and Meta synonymous. They aren't to the keyboard, which doesn't _have_ Meta, and they aren't to X. I just checked and I can put Meta on keycode 57 (the right key labeled Alt on my keyboard), remove Meta_R from mod1 and add it to mod2, and suddenly everything treats the two differently. Namely, Alt-Tab will do the fun window switch, and Meta-Tab is passed to Emacs. Hell, if I wanted to I could go adsd Super and Hyper into the mix and map Hyper-space. >> (Another nit: CDE and Motif are two different UI standards, >> although I think CDE is a superset.) R> Inasmuch as CDE uses Motif as its default window manager, this is R> true. Wrong. CDE uses dtwm. NAME dtwm - The CDE Window Manager SYNOPSIS [options] DESCRIPTION The dtwm window manager is an X Window System window manager based upon the OSF/Motif window manager, mwm (version 1.2.4). It provides mwm compatible window management functionality. This includes functions that facilitate control (by the user and the programmer) of elements of window state such as placement, size, icon/normal display, and input-focus ownership. -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted Rainy days and automatic weapons always get me down.