From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/67289 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Vitaly Mayatskikh Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: gnus and imap Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 10:05:15 +0200 Message-ID: References: <877iabwtjx.fsf@randomsample.de> <87abf51c4m.fsf@marauder.physik.uni-ulm.de> <874p5dm35l.fsf@randomsample.de> <87iqttq7ja.fsf@randomsample.de> <87d4k0t7ga.fsf@randomsample.de> <87myj3wzp7.fsf@randomsample.de> <878wumqo7z.fsf@randomsample.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1219651585 12123 80.91.229.12 (25 Aug 2008 08:06:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 08:06:25 +0000 (UTC) To: ding@gnus.org Original-X-From: ding-owner+M15740@lists.math.uh.edu Mon Aug 25 10:07:18 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ding-account@gmane.org Original-Received: from util0.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.18]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KXX6Z-0001Y6-OU for ding-account@gmane.org; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 10:07:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.math.uh.edu) by util0.math.uh.edu with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1KXX4r-0008Vi-Ft; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 03:05:29 -0500 Original-Received: from mx1.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.32]) by util0.math.uh.edu with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1KXX4q-0008VV-52 for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 03:05:28 -0500 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]) by mx1.math.uh.edu with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KXX4l-0001s2-U4 for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 03:05:28 -0500 Original-Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com ([72.14.220.157]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1KXX4n-0006ln-00 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 10:05:25 +0200 Original-Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 16so1151371fgg.23 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 01:05:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:to:subject:references :date:in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=u2Bothsy+iVquDjgurougWCIfayJU8G6+DGsTHavzR8=; b=kxwhwNxuuqcNfXSD1Ha13WvBfw3IKMzHi2XIxWnhurxlJhDX3tR+FW10mnyuy11IDN s8hSvryIf/o8JCW682+kfJVgYtMD3kwFmW8EbOKEUXy+rIanJE/bByHMwQ5bjjpTZ1Tt yVl5UO1nCcKjd2YpZ3S+IKoGThb5Jvh4wF+WQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent :mime-version:content-type; b=H9ltjAy1iXa/vZX9rAeu0WSlmg8VWt5c3zf0MhbMFr+6HIbotugwfbK0uo/UEGu+i3 zSojgN/YfDCrzahesKAlDGJup4jhqlFAhMb75iDM941wLOPCukxDJa9Z3z4XPa1+PCsT s35U8vnr+lA6lk/SWtGfDPAmBMeMma6G8aJPg= Original-Received: by 10.86.82.6 with SMTP id f6mr3085288fgb.73.1219651522641; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 01:05:22 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from gravicappa.englab.brq.redhat.com ( [62.40.79.66]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l12sm5038641fgb.6.2008.08.25.01.05.20 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 25 Aug 2008 01:05:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <878wumqo7z.fsf@randomsample.de> (David Engster's message of "Sun, 24 Aug 2008 20:09:36 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) List-ID: Precedence: bulk Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:67289 Archived-At: David Engster writes: >> Yes, but we still have to fix all this convoluted code (for >> gnus-unread-info or whatever). Unread articles calculations (count of >> articles, list of articles) are totally wrong for the case of IMAP. > > I wonder why it's that bad with the Zimbra imapd. Doesn't it produce > contiguous UIDs? I mean, I also get wrong article numbers with dovecot, > but only in cases when I delete or move articles, but these are not > "totally" wrong. As the documentation says, the number is an estimate, > after all. I have a lot of mail imported from another IMAP server, and, thus, have two uid's spaces. Now my groups uids look like ((4000 . 30000) (100000 . 110000)). >> It might be a good idea to extend api of back ends. > > I also further searched through gmane for the problem of wrong article > counts, since this topic came up frequently on the ding list. And lo and > behold, there's stuff already in Gnus for this, it's just not documented > in the manual. Wrong articles count is only one of problems. Getting old articles in nnimap group is close to impossible: I can't just tell "give me last 5 old articles", because Gnus calculates wrong uids for these articles. Instead of it, I have to ask for last 1000 (or 10000, or 100000) articles :( Also, I don't like any fixup hooks. Usually that means bad design of software, and usually they don't fix the problem at all. > We could implement this for nnimap and use it for the calculation of the > unread count, and also for the calculation of the total number of > articles in a group, which is also usually wrong in case of gaps in the > article numbers. I think this is much easier to handle than extending > gnus-active. Yes, we need to delegate calculation of read/unread articles lists to back ends (or implement these calculations correctly in Gnus for every case). > However, we should make this optional, since it will make IMAP access > slower, which may be a problem for people accessing IMAP servers over > slow lines. We should create a new server variable, something like > 'exact-count' or something. I wish Gnus to cache all needed meta data, like other mail clients do. It is really not necessary to ask for all seen/unseen uids again and again, but rather to search uids since last update. Currently, I simply can't use Gnus with slow and unstable connection (gprs), because it dies before Gnus finishes to update all my groups :) It is even hard to update linux-kernel mailing list on 20mb link. -- wbr, Vitaly