posting-styles and Return-Path:?

posting-styles and Return-Path:?

[Pavel Janík ml.]

Hi,

I have something like this in my .gnus:

(setq gnus-posting-styles
      '((".*"
         (signature-file "~/.Emacs/Signatures/Signature-Linux")
         (name "Pavel Janík ml.")
         (address "Pavel.Janik@linux.cz")
         (organization "Czech Linux Users' Group"))
        ("^Incoming"
         (signature-file "~/.Emacs/Signatures/Signature")
         (organization nil)
         (address "Pavel@mydomain.cz"))
        ("^INET"
         (signature-file "~/.Emacs/Signatures/Signature-Qbizm")
         (organization "Qbizm technologies, Inc.")
         (address "Pavel.Janik@qbizm.com"))))

So when I'm in folder Incoming, I'd like to send mail with From:
Pavel@mydomain.cz in headers. Ok, it works, but when this mail is sent, it
has this line in the header:

Return-Path: <Pavel.Janik@linux.cz>

I do not want it. When I comment all posting-styles it uses only my primary
address which is customized to be different from Pavel.Janik@linux.cz. So
the linux.cz address is taken from posting-styles (see ".*"). I assume that
there is something wrong with parsing the posting-styles or with the
composition of headers (or with my sendmail :-). Do you see this behaviour
too?
-- 
Pavel Janík ml.
Pavel.Janik@linux.cz

Re: posting-styles and Return-Path:?

[Kai Großjohann]

Pavel.Janik@linux.cz (Pavel Janík ml.) writes:

> I do not want it. When I comment all posting-styles it uses only my primary
> address which is customized to be different from Pavel.Janik@linux.cz. So
> the linux.cz address is taken from posting-styles (see ".*"). I assume that
> there is something wrong with parsing the posting-styles or with the
> composition of headers (or with my sendmail :-). Do you see this behaviour
> too?

I'm not sure about Return-Path, but Gnus generates a Sender header
when you customize the From address.

Does this help?
(add-to-list 'message-syntax-checks '(message-id . disabled))

kai
-- 
Beware of flying birch trees.

Re: posting-styles and Return-Path:?

[Pavel Janík ml.]

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   From: Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann)
   Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 17:01:38 +0200

Hi,

   > I'm not sure about Return-Path, but Gnus generates a Sender header
   > when you customize the From address.
   > 
   > Does this help?
   > (add-to-list 'message-syntax-checks '(message-id . disabled))

no, sorry.

   From: Karl Kleinpaste <karl@charcoal.com>
   Date: 23 May 2000 11:12:02 -0400

   > This is due to sendmail, not Gnus.
   > 
   > Return-Path is an MTA¹-generated header; it is added at the final
   > delivery stage to a local mailbox.  Sendmail intuits to the best

Of course, but I think that Gnus is the BAD here (or maybe, me). When I
send the mail it has only the information about my private domain, no way
to store @linux.cz address there. But the mail has the info about linux.cz
in it even when sendmail does not know about my @linux.cz address.

I think that it is definitely connected with Gnus and I will solve it
tonight.

... time passes (hey, I spent four hours on it!) ...

The problem seems to be solved now. Posting-styles are not compatible with
gnus-agent... You can try it on your own. Just send to yourself the message
with subject "Plugged" when plugged and with "Unplugged" when Unplugged and
then, become Plugged and send the message. Ok. You have two messages in
your mailbox. Just diff them:

--- Plugged	Tue May 23 22:21:15 2000
+++ Unplugged	Tue May 23 22:21:12 2000

"From " and Return-Path are different, Plugged is correct (ie. as
expected):

@@ -1,14 +1,14 @@
-From Pavel@mydomain.cz  Tue May 23 22:20:18 2000
-Return-Path: <Pavel@mydomain.cz>
+From Pavel.Janik@linux.cz  Tue May 23 22:20:34 2000
+Return-Path: <Pavel.Janik@linux.cz>

The From: header is the same and the correct one specified in my
posting-styles.

Second diff is the date (obviously :-)

 Received: (from pavel@localhost)
-	by SnowWhite.inet.cz (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA15178;
-	Tue, 23 May 2000 22:20:16 +0200
-Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:20:16 +0200
-Message-Id: <200005232020.WAA15178@SnowWhite.inet.cz>
-X-Authentication-Warning: SnowWhite.inet.cz: pavel set sender to Pavel@mydomain.cz using -f
+	by SnowWhite.inet.cz (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA15182;
+	Tue, 23 May 2000 22:20:33 +0200
+Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:20:33 +0200
+X-Authentication-Warning: SnowWhite.inet.cz: pavel set sender to Pavel.Janik@linux.cz using -f
+Message-ID: <m3bt1xauj2.fsf@totally-fudged-out-message-id>

And then: subject:

-Subject: Test when Plugged
+Subject: Test when Unplugged

So when I'm plugged, the mail is send as specified in my
posting-styles. When I'm unplugged, the mail is stored in the agent queue
with the correct From: header, but when it is sent it is sent as from my
@linux.cz address because it is the default (".*") match in the
posting-styles. I think that I understood it correctly. So I think that we
should notice Agent about the thing that user has specified another address
to send from and the agent should use this address as in Plugged. Well,
this is maybe the (mis)feature of Agent, and if it is, it should be
mentioned in the docs. The same also applies for the drafts group which is
even worse I think.

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Nice 4 hours, really :-)
-- 
Pavel Janík ml.
Pavel.Janik@linux.cz

Re: posting-styles and Return-Path:?

[Karl Kleinpaste]

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Pavel.Janik@linux.cz (Pavel Janík ml.) writes:
> So when I'm in folder Incoming, I'd like to send mail with From:
> Pavel@mydomain.cz in headers. Ok, it works, but when this mail is sent, it
> has this line in the header:
> Return-Path: <Pavel.Janik@linux.cz>
> I do not want it.

This is due to sendmail, not Gnus.

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Return-Path is an MTA¹-generated header; it is added at the final
delivery stage to a local mailbox.  Sendmail intuits to the best
extent it can who the real, genuine, originating user is.  Since Gnus
is invoking sendmail directly, sendmail has ample opportunity to
figure out who you really are, and where sendmail itself is really
running, in opposition to your posting-styles preferences.

The only way to avoid this intuition on sendmail's part is not to let
sendmail be executed directly by Gnus.  I believe that smtpmail.el may
accomplish what you need, by speaking SMTP to your system's sendmail,
avoiding sendmail having an opportunity to think about who you really
are.

--karl

¹ Mail Transfer Agent, such as sendmail, MMDF, or qmail.