Why I've stopped using ecomplete

Why I've stopped using ecomplete

[Steve Youngs]

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I think the two main reasons are that it simply doesn't fit into my
usage patterns, and it appears to not do anything useful in
(S)XEmacs.

I had it enabled for a week or thereabouts and in that time it
collected 13 addresses.  Of that 13, 3 were my own address for testing
the thing, another 7 were from mailing lists and so useless as
gnus-parameters takes care of those.  That left 3 possibly useful
ones.  Well, not, that useful, these 3 were already in my BBDB. :-)

The only thing I ever saw ecomplete do was to display the first match
in the echo area.  I could not find a way to make it either cycle or
display other matches.  And I could not find a way to make it put
anything in the To: header for me.  Is it supposed to?  I would have
thought so.

But what really killed it for me... was that enabling ecomplete
disables abbrev-mode in message-mode.  Man, I can't live without my
abbrevs. :-)

I did notice that if the addresses are collected with a ENT-enabled[1]
SXEmacs I got errors in non-ENT SXEmacsen.[2]

Lars, I hope you find this feedback useful.  And yeah, I'm happy to
test future versions. :-)


Footnotes: 
[1]  XEmacs equiv is "bignum" (21.5 only)

[2]  I think I mentioned this in another thread.

-- 
|---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: A94B3003>---|
|                 I am Dyslexic of Borg.                   | 
|    Fusistance is retile. Your arse will be laminated.    |
|------------------------------------<steve@sxemacs.org>---|

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Re: Why I've stopped using ecomplete

[Wes Hardaker]

>>>>> On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 00:52:23 +1000, Steve Youngs <steve@sxemacs.org> said:

SY> Well, not, that useful, these 3 were already in my BBDB. :-)

I meant to turn on ecomplete to try it, but the reality is that if I'm
mailing someone and they're not in my BBDB that probably means they
should be.  Hence, ecomplete would be best if it was more like "you're
mailing someone not in your BBDB...  can i auto-create an entry based
on past remembered knowledge?"  Sort of in-between the bbdb's
auto-add-everyone (simply huge BBDB) and "add no one".  It'd be like
"remind me about people I communicate with".
-- 
"In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap,
 and much more difficult to find."  -- Terry Pratchett

Re: Why I've stopped using ecomplete

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Wes Hardaker <wes@hardakers.net> writes:

> I meant to turn on ecomplete to try it, but the reality is that if I'm
> mailing someone and they're not in my BBDB that probably means they
> should be.  Hence, ecomplete would be best if it was more like "you're
> mailing someone not in your BBDB...

The problem with BBDB is that it's not included in Emacs (and
apparently won't be, due to the copyright situation).  So making
ecomplete depend on/interact with BBDB seems like less than
optimal...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Why I've stopped using ecomplete

[Jochen Küpper]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi-smP1P7uqpqc@public.gmane.org> writes:

> The problem with BBDB is that it's not included in Emacs (and
> apparently won't be, due to the copyright situation). So making
> ecomplete depend on/interact with BBDB seems like less than
> optimal...

Maybe re-writing bbdb "right" as part of Emacs might help. It seems
like a bit of work, though.

Having a simple addressbook as part of Emacs that interacts nicely
with MUAs and other pieces would be cool.

With respect to usability I haven't seen anything even close to bbdb,
though.

Greetings,
Jochen
-- 
Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit                http://www.Jochen-Kuepper.de
    Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité                GnuPG key: CC1B0B4D
        (Part 3 you find in my messages before fall 2003.)

Re: Why I've stopped using ecomplete

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Jochen Küpper <jochen@fhi-berlin.mpg.de> writes:

> With respect to usability I haven't seen anything even close to bbdb,
> though.

It's a major piece of software.  :-)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Why I've stopped using ecomplete

[Ronan Waide]

On April 30, jochen@fhi-berlin.mpg.de said:
> Maybe re-writing bbdb "right" as part of Emacs might help. It seems
> like a bit of work, though.

Hey, be my guest. I've thought about it every so often, if only to
discard the amount of junk code that's probably only relevant to Emacs
18.59, but I know I'll break every single part of it somehow if I do
any sort of rewrite. After all, it took me several months to hammer
out all the bugs I (re)introduced when I rewrote the completion code,
and I'm still not 100% sure it's right, AND it's gotten to the point
where I'm no longer sure I understand it (which was the reason I redid
it in the first place).
 
Why not write a hook into bbdb instead of depending on it? If BBDB
exists, it gets used by ecomplete, if not, no damage.

Cheers,
Waider.
-- 
waider@waider.ie / Yes, it /is/ very personal of me.
"operating complicated machinery when possessed of the cognitive powers of a
 sea slug and the disposition of a polar bear with a toothache is most unwise."
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Re: Why I've stopped using ecomplete

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Ronan Waide <waider@waider.ie> writes:

> Why not write a hook into bbdb instead of depending on it? If BBDB
> exists, it gets used by ecomplete, if not, no damage.

Well, I really, really want a nice completion mode for Emacs.  I think
it's embarrassing that Emacs users don't have completion like you find
in any other mailers, like Thunderbird or Eudora.

bbdb (for copyright reasons) can't be part of that default solution,
so my enthusiasm for hooking into bbdb is limited.  

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Why I've stopped using ecomplete

[Dave Goldberg]

What's the copyright status of EUDC?  Would it make sense for
ecomplete to be able to call out to that?
-- 
Dave Goldberg
david.goldberg6@verizon.net

Re: Why I've stopped using ecomplete

[Reiner Steib]

On Mon, May 01 2006, Dave Goldberg wrote:

> What's the copyright status of EUDC?  Would it make sense for
> ecomplete to be able to call out to that?

;;; eudc.el --- Emacs Unified Directory Client
... is part of Emacs.  And there's functionality to use it in message
mode (I didn't test it):

,----[ <f1> v message-expand-name-databases RET ]
| message-expand-name-databases is a variable defined in `message.el'.
| Its value is (bbdb eudc)
| 
| Documentation:
| List of databases to try for name completion (`message-expand-name').
| Each element is a symbol and can be `bbdb' or `eudc'.
`----

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Why I've stopped using ecomplete

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:

> ;;; eudc.el --- Emacs Unified Directory Client
> ... is part of Emacs.  And there's functionality to use it in message
> mode (I didn't test it):

I guess ecomplete could use eudc.  However, I haven't actually heard
much talk about people using it, so I don't know how much help that
would be...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Why I've stopped using ecomplete

[Jesper Harder]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> I guess ecomplete could use eudc.  However, I haven't actually heard
> much talk about people using it, so I don't know how much help that
> would be...

I use eudc in Gnus to get completion based on contacts in the Mac
Address Book.

Re: Why I've stopped using ecomplete

[Bjørn Mork]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
>
>> ;;; eudc.el --- Emacs Unified Directory Client
>> ... is part of Emacs.  And there's functionality to use it in message
>> mode (I didn't test it):
>
> I guess ecomplete could use eudc.  However, I haven't actually heard
> much talk about people using it, so I don't know how much help that
> would be...

I've tried to use it a couple of times, but I'm apparently too
stupid.  Don't know if that's a common problem though...

I would love to have tab-completion of To and Cc based on a flexible
set of backend databases, including ~/.bbdb and LDAP (ther might of
course be more than one LDAP backend).  And maybe some SQL backends
too.

That's my wishlist.  Feel free to save it for Xmas


Bjørn
-- 
It takes a crazy racist like you to say that you must be a flatulent
twit to think that Reagan said the Nicaraguan culture is fascinating.

Re: Why I've stopped using ecomplete

[Dave Goldberg]

I use eudc to access my company's LDAP at work and bbdb for my local
address book (sync'd between work and home - ediff is a wonderful
thing).  EUDC is nice because I can tab complete against both
directories without having to resort to different key combos.  It can
be a bit tricky to set up.  I had to consult with our LDAP admin to
get the right search terms for example.  For me the tab completion is
good enough, and in fact I'm so used to it that I actually wish I had
the capability when I'm forced to use other mail clients :-)

-- 
Dave Goldberg
david.goldberg6@verizon.net

Re: Why I've stopped using ecomplete

[Bjørn Mork]

Dave Goldberg <david.goldberg6@verizon.net> writes:

> I use eudc to access my company's LDAP at work and bbdb for my local
> address book (sync'd between work and home - ediff is a wonderful
> thing).  EUDC is nice because I can tab complete against both
> directories without having to resort to different key combos.  It can
> be a bit tricky to set up.  I had to consult with our LDAP admin to
> get the right search terms for example.  

Any hints?  I have no problems getting ldapsearch to work:

bjorn@obelix:~$ ldapsearch -x mail=bjorn.mork\* givenName sn mail
# extended LDIF
#
# LDAPv3
# base <> with scope sub
# filter: mail=bjorn.mork*
# requesting: givenName sn mail 
#

# 777777, example
dn: employeeNumber=777777,o=example
sn: Mork
givenName:: QmrDuHJu
mail: Bjorn.Mork@example.com

# search result
search: 2
result: 0 Success

# numResponses: 2
# numEntries: 1
bjorn@obelix:~$ ldapsearch -x '(&(givenName=bjørn)(sn=mork))' givenName sn mail
# extended LDIF
#
# LDAPv3
# base <> with scope sub
# filter: (&(givenName=bjørn)(sn=mork))
# requesting: givenName sn mail 
#

# 777777, example
dn: employeeNumber=777777,o=example
sn: Mork
givenName:: QmrDuHJu
mail: Bjorn.Mork@example.com

# search result
search: 2
result: 0 Success

# numResponses: 2
# numEntries: 1



But I'm lost when it comes to converting this into eudc tab-expansion.


Bjørn
-- 
I'll bet you think that MP3s are boring.

Re: Why I've stopped using ecomplete

[Mark Plaksin]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> Ronan Waide <waider@waider.ie> writes:
>
>> Why not write a hook into bbdb instead of depending on it? If BBDB
>> exists, it gets used by ecomplete, if not, no damage.
>
> Well, I really, really want a nice completion mode for Emacs.  I think
> it's embarrassing that Emacs users don't have completion like you find
> in any other mailers, like Thunderbird or Eudora.

You've probably seen it already but in case you haven't, completion-ui.el
was just announced on gnu.emacs.sources.  I haven't tried it but it sounds
good:
	http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/CompletionUI

Re: Why I've stopped using ecomplete

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Mark Plaksin <happy@mcplaksin.org> writes:

> You've probably seen it already but in case you haven't, completion-ui.el
> was just announced on gnu.emacs.sources.  I haven't tried it but it sounds
> good:
> 	http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/CompletionUI

The feature list looks great.  :-)  Is this scheduled for inclusion in
Emacs/XEmacs? 

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Why I've stopped using ecomplete

[Mark Plaksin]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> Mark Plaksin <happy@mcplaksin.org> writes:
>
>> You've probably seen it already but in case you haven't, completion-ui.el
>> was just announced on gnu.emacs.sources.  I haven't tried it but it sounds
>> good:
>> 	http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/CompletionUI
>
> The feature list looks great.  :-)  Is this scheduled for inclusion in
> Emacs/XEmacs? 

I haven't seen it discussed on emacs-devel.  I don't use XEmacs so I don't
know about that.  I haven't heard of completion-ui before so I assume it's
brand new.

Re: Why I've stopped using ecomplete

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Steve Youngs <steve@sxemacs.org> writes:

> I had it enabled for a week or thereabouts and in that time it
> collected 13 addresses.  Of that 13, 3 were my own address for testing
> the thing, another 7 were from mailing lists and so useless as
> gnus-parameters takes care of those.  That left 3 possibly useful
> ones.  Well, not, that useful, these 3 were already in my BBDB. :-)

It currently grabs the "to", "cc", "from" and "reply-to" headers.
I could add more...

> The only thing I ever saw ecomplete do was to display the first match
> in the echo area.  I could not find a way to make it either cycle or
> display other matches.  And I could not find a way to make it put
> anything in the To: header for me.  Is it supposed to?  I would have
> thought so.

It works better in Emacs.  :-)  It's supposed to display the first ten
most likely matches, all pretty and stuff.  Is there a way to display
multi-line echo area strings in XEmacs?

> But what really killed it for me... was that enabling ecomplete
> disables abbrev-mode in message-mode.  Man, I can't live without my
> abbrevs. :-)

You can now have both ecomplete and abbrevs in
`message-mail-alias-type'. 

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen