Re: Changes committed gnus/lisp (ChangeLog message.el)

Re: Changes committed gnus/lisp (ChangeLog message.el)

[Jesper Harder]

"Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen" <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> (message-cite-original): Respect X-No-Archive.
>
> +	(insert "> [Quoted text removed due to X-No-Archive]\n")
> +	(forward-line -1)))))

Could we please have an option to turn this off?

I *really* don't care for some non-standard header saying what I
should or shouldn't quote.

I'll quote whatever I want to, thank you very much.

Usenet is a public forum, and messages may be archived forever and
quoted in full.  People who can't live with that should take their
messages somewhere else.

-- 
Jesper Harder                                <http://purl.org/harder/>

Re: Changes committed gnus/lisp (ChangeLog message.el)

[Daniel Pittman]

On 5 Jun 2004, Jesper Harder wrote:
> "Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen" <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
>
>> (message-cite-original): Respect X-No-Archive.
>>
>> +	(insert "> [Quoted text removed due to X-No-Archive]\n")
>> +	(forward-line -1)))))
>
> Could we please have an option to turn this off?

I *really* agree with this. If this is non-optional new behavior (or
even default behavior), it sucks.

> I *really* don't care for some non-standard header saying what I
> should or shouldn't quote.

Especially since that header was (at least when I learned about it)
intended to say "don't archive me in dejanews", not "don't apply your
fair-use rights in citing my text"...

         Daniel
-- 
How much more grievous are the consequences of anger than the causes of it.
        -- Marcus Aurelius

Re: Changes committed gnus/lisp (ChangeLog message.el)

[Miles Bader]

Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net> writes:
>>> +	(insert "> [Quoted text removed due to X-No-Archive]\n")
>>
>> Could we please have an option to turn this off?
>
> I *really* agree with this. If this is non-optional new behavior (or
> even default behavior), it sucks.

Not least since the people who get all hot and bothered by their posts
being quoted/archived/whatever are usually, in my experience, twits.
I don't want twits to have _any_ say in the way my newsreader works...

-Miles
-- 
We have met the enemy, and he is us.  -- Pogo

Re: Changes committed gnus/lisp (ChangeLog message.el)

[Raymond Scholz]

· Jesper Harder <harder@myrealbox.com> wrote:

> Could we please have an option to turn this off?

Yes, please...

I use the following posting styles code, which is less intriguing
where it should have the same effect regarding groups.google.com:

	;; Reiner Steib in <v9wun8ghwx.fsf@marauder.physik.uni-ulm.de>
	((and (message-news-p)
	      (save-excursion
		(set-buffer gnus-article-buffer)
		(let ((case-fold-search t))
		  (string-match "yes"
				(or (message-fetch-field "X-No-Archive") "")))))
	 (X-No-Archive "Yes"))

Cheers, Ray
-- 
Hfr fgebat rapelcgvba!

Re: Changes committed gnus/lisp (ChangeLog message.el)

[Daniel Pittman]

On 6 Jun 2004, Raymond Scholz wrote:
> · Jesper Harder <harder@myrealbox.com> wrote:
>
>> Could we please have an option to turn this off?
>
> Yes, please...
>
> I use the following posting styles code, which is less intriguing
> where it should have the same effect regarding groups.google.com:

...code to enable 'no-archive' when the message responded to set it...

I would also find this annoying; the original poster is welcome to
request that their article not show up in online archive services; I
specifically *do* want my articles to do so, even if I am responding to
a non-archived posting.

This is, in part, because being seen as useful in technical forums is
valuable to my business as a computer consultant, and not being archived
prevents that.

Also, being able to make my information public results in less
repetition of questions, since people are able to use google and other
tools to turn up the existing answer rather than having it repeated
again and again.


Overall this change seems to be trying harder than needed to cater to
people who don't want deja-google to pick up their comments for whatever
reason.

      Daniel

-- 
It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception,
is composed of others.
        -- John Andrew Holmes

Re: Changes committed gnus/lisp (ChangeLog message.el)

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Jesper Harder <harder@myrealbox.com> writes:

> Could we please have an option to turn this off?

Sure.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Changes committed gnus/lisp (ChangeLog message.el)

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net> writes:

> Overall this change seems to be trying harder than needed to cater to
> people who don't want deja-google to pick up their comments for whatever
> reason.

Actually, it was kinda a result of me being annoyed with the twits
who add X-No-Archive in general.  It's a way to escalate the
annoyance for added amusement.  :-)

I've defaulted this marvelous feature to "off" now.  

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Changes committed gnus/lisp (ChangeLog message.el)

[Daniel Pittman]

On 7 Jun 2004, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net> writes:
>
>> Overall this change seems to be trying harder than needed to cater to
>> people who don't want deja-google to pick up their comments for whatever
>> reason.
>
> Actually, it was kinda a result of me being annoyed with the twits
> who add X-No-Archive in general.  It's a way to escalate the
> annoyance for added amusement.  :-)

*nod*  I can see that, and will probably be tempted to use it in places
where it is more fun than harm. :)

> I've defaulted this marvelous feature to "off" now.  

Thanks. I think that is a good default.
        Daniel
-- 
Impropaganda: Using propaganda techniques not in accordance with good sense,
good faith, or good morals... methods not consistent with the American pattern
of behavior based on Judeo-Christian ethics.
        -- Edward L. Bernays, author of Crystallizing Public Opinion (1923)

Re: Changes committed gnus/lisp (ChangeLog message.el)

[Jesper Harder]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> Jesper Harder <harder@myrealbox.com> writes:
>
>> Could we please have an option to turn this off?
>
> Sure.

Thanks.

> Actually, it was kinda a result of me being annoyed with the twits
> who add X-No-Archive in general.

I'm relieved :-) I'd be more inclined to add something like this
myself

  [message quoted in full to preserve context for posteriority]

if I noticed an XNA.

-- 
Jesper Harder                                <http://purl.org/harder/>

message-cite-articles-with-x-no-archive (was: Changes committed gnus/lisp (ChangeLog message.el))

[Reiner Steib]

On Sun, Jun 06 2004, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote:

> Actually, it was kinda a result of me being annoyed with the twits
> who add X-No-Archive in general.  It's a way to escalate the
> annoyance for added amusement.  :-)
>
> I've defaulted this marvelous feature to "off" now.  

It seems it isn't off by default (see Emily Jackson's posting
<news:m2pt4e4k0y.fsf@M5.local> in g.e.g)

(defcustom message-cite-articles-with-x-no-archive t
  "If non-nil, cite text from articles that has X-No-Archive set."
[...]
(defun message-cite-original ()
  "Cite function in the standard Message manner."
[...]
      (when (and x-no-archive
		 message-cite-articles-with-x-no-archive
		 (string-match "yes" x-no-archive))
	[...]
	(insert "> [Quoted text removed due to X-No-Archive]\n")

I think this is what Lars had in mind:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
--- message.el	20 Sep 2004 13:46:45 +0200	7.45
+++ message.el	22 Sep 2004 16:29:03 +0200	
@@ -3302,7 +3302,7 @@
 	  (insert "\n"))
 	(funcall message-citation-line-function))
       (when (and x-no-archive
-		 message-cite-articles-with-x-no-archive
+		 (not message-cite-articles-with-x-no-archive)
 		 (string-match "yes" x-no-archive))
 	(undo-boundary)
 	(delete-region (point) (mark t))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: message-cite-articles-with-x-no-archive

[Reiner Steib]

On Wed, Sep 22 2004, Reiner Steib wrote:

> I think this is what Lars had in mind:
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> --- message.el	20 Sep 2004 13:46:45 +0200	7.45
> +++ message.el	22 Sep 2004 16:29:03 +0200	
> @@ -3302,7 +3302,7 @@
>  	  (insert "\n"))
>  	(funcall message-citation-line-function))
>        (when (and x-no-archive
> -		 message-cite-articles-with-x-no-archive
> +		 (not message-cite-articles-with-x-no-archive)
>  		 (string-match "yes" x-no-archive))
>  	(undo-boundary)
>  	(delete-region (point) (mark t))
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Committed.

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/