article selected when doing B m

article selected when doing B m

[Steinar Bang]

Pterodactyl Gnus v0.84 on XEmacs 20.4 on SuSE linux 5.3

When a piece of spam ends up in one of mye regular folders I usually
mark it read with the "d" command so that I won't have to spend time
even skimming it.

I then usually do a 
        B m
to move it to the nnml:spam folder which has a 1 day expiry, so that
it won't waste space on my harddisk too long.

However the act of doing the 
        B m
command causes the article to be selected and the body of the article
to be displayed. 

I noticed this on a piece of spam in text/html that took quite a while 
to render.

Does anyone know of a way to avoid the selection and display when
moving articles?

Thanx!


- Steinar

Re: article selected when doing B m

[François Pinard]

Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> writes:

> Does anyone know of a way to avoid the selection and display when
> moving articles?

I too consider that rendering (colouring even-non-HTML articles having
a few ten thousands lines takes a lot of time, indeed) occurs often in
unwanted circumstances, in contexts it is not really needed.  The best
approach would be lazy coloration, in my opinion, and why not, Gnus-wide.

Sadly enough, lazy HTML rendering might be fairly difficult to design!
Yet, I would guess that it might be achievable to lazy-render HTML from
beginning up to a particular point in a buffer, so it could be rather speedy
(once all modules loaded) to only see the beginning of a long HTML document,
and rendering could occur while we page forward (or at stealth times?),
waiting a bit when the renderer hits some <table> for the first time :-).

My usual work around, at least for long messages, is to `C-u g' them before
`B m'ing them.  (Hmph!  There is little chance you find these verbs in a
standard English dictionary, so don't look them up!)

-- 
François Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard

Re: article selected when doing B m

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> François Pinard <pinard@iro.umontreal.ca>:

> My usual work around, at least for long messages, is to `C-u g' them
> before `B m'ing them.  (Hmph!  There is little chance you find these
> verbs in a standard English dictionary, so don't look them up!)

But even if you do that, the article the cursor is positioned over
will be rendered when 'B m'ing it.  

At least I think it will.

Re: article selected when doing B m

[François Pinard]

Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> écrit:

> >>>>> François Pinard <pinard@iro.umontreal.ca>:

> > My usual work around, at least for long messages, is to `C-u g' them
> > before `B m'ing them.  (Hmph!  There is little chance you find these
> > verbs in a standard English dictionary, so don't look them up!)

> But even if you do that, the article the cursor is positioned over will
> be rendered when 'B m'ing it.  At least I think it will.

If the article is already displayed with `C-u g' (that is, fast!), it will
not be displayed again prior to `B m', in my frequent experience.

-- 
François Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard

Re: article selected when doing B m

[Yoshiki Hayashi]

Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> writes:

> However the act of doing the 
>         B m
> command causes the article to be selected and the body of the article
> to be displayed. 

How about `# B m' ?

-- 
Yoshiki Hayashi

Re: article selected when doing B m

[Robert Bihlmeyer]

Hi,

>>>>> On 10 Aug 1999 08:19:38 -0400
>>>>> François Pinard <pinard@iro.umontreal.ca> said:

 FP> Yet, I would guess that it might be achievable to lazy-render
 FP> HTML from beginning up to a particular point in a buffer, so it
 FP> could be rather speedy (once all modules loaded) [...]

well, I usually get not more than one HTML message per day (mostly
UBE), so w3 would have to be loaded on every one of them. Rendering is
quite fast, compared to the loading. So for my usage pattern, lazy
HTML drawing would not bring much gain, and the cost is probably very
high.

But there may be unfortunate people getting a lot more HTML messages ...

        Robbe

-- 
Robert Bihlmeyer	reads: Deutsch, English, MIME, Latin-1, NO SPAM!
<robbe@orcus.priv.at>	<http://stud2.tuwien.ac.at/~e9426626/sig.html>

Re: article selected when doing B m

[François Pinard]

Robert Bihlmeyer <e9426626@stud4.tuwien.ac.at> écrit:

>  FP> Yet, I would guess that it might be achievable to lazy-render
>  FP> HTML from beginning up to a particular point in a buffer, so it
>  FP> could be rather speedy (once all modules loaded) [...]

> Rendering is quite fast, compared to the loading.  [...]  But there may
> be unfortunate people getting a lot more HTML messages ...

HTML rendering is usually quite fast for me as well.  Yet, sometimes,
I receive those huge HTML messages, and for them only, lazy rendering
would be a blessing, as it currently takes a quite long time on a rather
fast machine.  Of course, I just then `C-g' out of rendering, reload with
`C-u g', and try to read my way through the SGML tags...

> So for my usage pattern, lazy HTML drawing would not bring much gain,
> and the cost is probably very high.

I agree with you that, on average, we may cope with the current situation
for HTML.  My point is more that Gnus, all over, would definitely be more
fun with lazy rendering, as it occurs frequently to me that rendering is
slow (because of frequent big messages).  I was just stressing that _even_
HTML could be lazy-rendered, if we were really aiming for all that laziness,
so to speak :-).  I hope it will be addressed in Gnus, one day.

-- 
François Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard

Re: article selected when doing B m

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Yoshiki Hayashi <t90553@m.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>:

> Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> writes:
>> However the act of doing the 
>>      B m
>> command causes the article to be selected and the body of the article
>> to be displayed. 

> How about `# B m' ?

It still displays the article before moving it.

Re: article selected when doing B m

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> François Pinard <pinard@iro.umontreal.ca>:

> Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> écrit:
>> >>>>> François Pinard <pinard@iro.umontreal.ca>:

>> > My usual work around, at least for long messages, is to `C-u g' them
>> > before `B m'ing them.  (Hmph!  There is little chance you find these
>> > verbs in a standard English dictionary, so don't look them up!)

>> But even if you do that, the article the cursor is positioned over will
>> be rendered when 'B m'ing it.  At least I think it will.

> If the article is already displayed with `C-u g' (that is, fast!), it will
> not be displayed again prior to `B m', in my frequent experience.

Hm... where do you do "C-u g"?  I mixed it up with "C-u number f" on a
group from *Group*, and visiting a group in this way (no articles
selected) causes a article do be displayed before moving it.

Re: article selected when doing B m

[François Pinard]

Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> écrit:
> > Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> écrit:
> >>>>> François Pinard <pinard@iro.umontreal.ca>:
> >> >>>>> François Pinard <pinard@iro.umontreal.ca>:

Those quotation prefixes are becoming kind of decorative, aren't they?

> >> > My usual work around, at least for long messages, is to `C-u g' them
> >> > before `B m'ing them.

> >> But even if you do that, the article the cursor is positioned over
> >> will be rendered when 'B m'ing it.  At least I think it will.

> > If the article is already displayed with `C-u g' (that is, fast!),
> > it will not be displayed again prior to `B m', in my frequent experience.

> Hm... where do you do "C-u g"?

In the Summary buffer.  You position the cursor over the summary line
of the article you want to `open' all raw, with no rendering, and type
`C-u g'.  You may then handle it other commands with `B m', for example.

> visiting a group in this way (no articles selected) causes a article do
> be displayed before moving it.

You may use `RET' instead of `SPC' to enter a group with no article
displayed, that is, to get just the summary.

But all such stunts, which are a bit too usual in my opinion, would be much
less necessary if Gnus knew how to lazy-render.  Whatever the way, it would
not be slow.  Knowing how to stunt allows users to have a more comfortable
behaviour, yet I do not think one should have to know these tricks.

-- 
François Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard

Re: article selected when doing B m

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> writes:

> Does anyone know of a way to avoid the selection and display when
> moving articles?

Like François said, lazy rendering would be nice (but difficult), and
`C-u g B m' is probably the fastest way to move an article.

Why does the `B m' command select the message?  Well, all the commands 
that actually does something with messages select the messages first.
`B m' behaves like all the other commands in this respect.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen