* MIME->MML @ 1999-02-04 0:06 Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1999-02-04 7:49 ` MIME->MML Steinar Bang 0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1999-02-04 0:06 UTC (permalink / raw) Er -- I wrote the darn thing. 'Twas no big deal. So we should now have proper MIME (multipart) editing capabilities. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: MIME->MML 1999-02-04 0:06 MIME->MML Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1999-02-04 7:49 ` Steinar Bang 1999-02-04 16:58 ` MIME->MML Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Steinar Bang @ 1999-02-04 7:49 UTC (permalink / raw) >>>>> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no>: > Er -- I wrote the darn thing. 'Twas no big deal. So we should now > have proper MIME (multipart) editing capabilities. Does this mean that you also have MIME-style forwarding of messages now? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: MIME->MML 1999-02-04 7:49 ` MIME->MML Steinar Bang @ 1999-02-04 16:58 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1999-02-04 17:18 ` MIME->MML Hrvoje Niksic 1999-02-23 2:07 ` MIME->MML François Pinard 0 siblings, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1999-02-04 16:58 UTC (permalink / raw) Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> writes: > Does this mean that you also have MIME-style forwarding of messages > now? Nope. :-) But that should be trivial now -- just put the message to be forwarded in a buffer and include a tag that includes that message/rfc822 buffer. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: MIME->MML 1999-02-04 16:58 ` MIME->MML Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1999-02-04 17:18 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1999-02-04 17:39 ` MIME->MML Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1999-02-23 2:07 ` MIME->MML François Pinard 1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Hrvoje Niksic @ 1999-02-04 17:18 UTC (permalink / raw) Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> writes: > > > Does this mean that you also have MIME-style forwarding of messages > > now? > > Nope. :-) But that should be trivial now -- just put the message to > be forwarded in a buffer and include a tag that includes that > message/rfc822 buffer. Well, could `S o m' do that for me? How about `S O m' and MIME digests? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: MIME->MML 1999-02-04 17:18 ` MIME->MML Hrvoje Niksic @ 1999-02-04 17:39 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1999-02-04 18:47 ` MIME->MML Hrvoje Niksic 1999-02-04 19:25 ` MIME->MML James H. Cloos Jr. 0 siblings, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1999-02-04 17:39 UTC (permalink / raw) Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes: > > Nope. :-) But that should be trivial now -- just put the message to > > be forwarded in a buffer and include a tag that includes that > > message/rfc822 buffer. > > Well, could `S o m' do that for me? Yes, that is how `S o m' and `S o f' will work in the future. > How about `S O m' and MIME digests? That I'm not so sure about... because I don't know what a MIME digest is, really. :-) rfc-index doesn't look like it mentions it. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: MIME->MML 1999-02-04 17:39 ` MIME->MML Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1999-02-04 18:47 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1999-02-04 21:14 ` MIME->MML Alexandre Oliva 1999-02-04 19:25 ` MIME->MML James H. Cloos Jr. 1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Hrvoje Niksic @ 1999-02-04 18:47 UTC (permalink / raw) Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > > How about `S O m' and MIME digests? > > That I'm not so sure about... because I don't know what a MIME > digest is, really. :-) Now that you mention it, neither do I. I was sure MIME defined a form of digesting the messages, but I cannot find it now. I guess you could create a multipart/mixed body with only message/rfc822 parts, and hope that the recipient intuits it as a digest, but it would be stretching. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: MIME->MML 1999-02-04 18:47 ` MIME->MML Hrvoje Niksic @ 1999-02-04 21:14 ` Alexandre Oliva 1999-02-09 14:51 ` MIME->MML Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Alexandre Oliva @ 1999-02-04 21:14 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding On Feb 4, 1999, Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> wrote: > Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: >> > How about `S O m' and MIME digests? >> >> That I'm not so sure about... because I don't know what a MIME >> digest is, really. :-) > Now that you mention it, neither do I. I was sure MIME defined a form > of digesting the messages, but I cannot find it now. RFC 2046, page 26. -- Alexandre Oliva http://www.dcc.unicamp.br/~oliva aoliva@{acm.org} oliva@{dcc.unicamp.br,gnu.org,egcs.cygnus.com,samba.org} Universidade Estadual de Campinas, SP, Brasil ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: MIME->MML 1999-02-04 21:14 ` MIME->MML Alexandre Oliva @ 1999-02-09 14:51 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1999-02-09 17:24 ` MIME->MML Hrvoje Niksic 0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1999-02-09 14:51 UTC (permalink / raw) Alexandre Oliva <oliva@dcc.unicamp.br> writes: > > Now that you mention it, neither do I. I was sure MIME defined a form > > of digesting the messages, but I cannot find it now. > > RFC 2046, page 26. Right. But I think that normal digests are more widely understood than MIME digests, so I think it's best to have `S O m' still do normal digests. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: MIME->MML 1999-02-09 14:51 ` MIME->MML Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1999-02-09 17:24 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1999-02-09 17:52 ` MIME->MML Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Hrvoje Niksic @ 1999-02-09 17:24 UTC (permalink / raw) Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > Alexandre Oliva <oliva@dcc.unicamp.br> writes: > > > > Now that you mention it, neither do I. I was sure MIME defined a form > > > of digesting the messages, but I cannot find it now. > > > > RFC 2046, page 26. > > Right. But I think that normal digests are more widely understood > than MIME digests, so I think it's best to have `S O m' still do > normal digests. Perhaps there should be a variable `gnus-digest-use-mime', defaulting to nil, which would allow the MIME-lovers among the Gnusers to send out all-cool all-MIME digests. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: MIME->MML 1999-02-09 17:24 ` MIME->MML Hrvoje Niksic @ 1999-02-09 17:52 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1999-02-09 18:31 ` MIME->MML Hrvoje Niksic 0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1999-02-09 17:52 UTC (permalink / raw) Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes: > Perhaps there should be a variable `gnus-digest-use-mime', defaulting > to nil, which would allow the MIME-lovers among the Gnusers to send > out all-cool all-MIME digests. At some point in the future, perhaps, but I see no need to offer that now. As our experiments have shown us, MIME readers are so deficient that sending out anything more complex than a multipart with one (1) attachment is not a good idea. I think if you send someone a MIME digest, it's not unlikely that they will be completely unable to read it without saving each and every part to a file first. And for people who use Gnus, whether it's an RFC934 digest or a MIME digest is kinda immaterial -- nndoc groks them both. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: MIME->MML 1999-02-09 17:52 ` MIME->MML Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1999-02-09 18:31 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1999-02-09 19:02 ` MIME->MML Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Hrvoje Niksic @ 1999-02-09 18:31 UTC (permalink / raw) Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > And for people who use Gnus, whether it's an RFC934 digest or a MIME > digest is kinda immaterial -- nndoc groks them both. This is untrue. nndoc failed miserably at groking a test MIME digest I've sent to myself. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: MIME->MML 1999-02-09 18:31 ` MIME->MML Hrvoje Niksic @ 1999-02-09 19:02 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1999-02-09 19:02 UTC (permalink / raw) Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes: > > And for people who use Gnus, whether it's an RFC934 digest or a MIME > > digest is kinda immaterial -- nndoc groks them both. > > This is untrue. nndoc failed miserably at groking a test MIME digest > I've sent to myself. Could you mail me one? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: MIME->MML 1999-02-04 17:39 ` MIME->MML Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1999-02-04 18:47 ` MIME->MML Hrvoje Niksic @ 1999-02-04 19:25 ` James H. Cloos Jr. 1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: James H. Cloos Jr. @ 1999-02-04 19:25 UTC (permalink / raw) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Lars> That I'm not so sure about... because I don't know what a MIME Lars> digest is, really. :-) rfc-index doesn't look like it mentions Lars> it. It is in rfc1341. Main type is multipart/digest, and the default content-type for each body part is message/rfc822, should an explicit one be left out. - -JimC - -- James H. Cloos, Jr. <http://www.jhcloos.com/cloos/public_key> 1024D/ED7DAEA6 <cloos@jhcloos.com> E9E9 F828 61A4 6EA9 0F2B 63E7 997A 9F17 ED7D AEA6 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v0.9.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE2ufQkmXqfF+19rqYRAgecAKCSIpuMjzBVJFnPD6HxecUf/8TiXACbBPEq 9tWwkw5gDH9E45rok91U+sc= =/TOZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: MIME->MML 1999-02-04 16:58 ` MIME->MML Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1999-02-04 17:18 ` MIME->MML Hrvoje Niksic @ 1999-02-23 2:07 ` François Pinard 1999-02-26 7:57 ` MIME->MML Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: François Pinard @ 1999-02-23 2:07 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: Forum of ding/Gnus users [-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --] [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii, Size: 2415 bytes --] Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> writes: > > Does this mean that you also have MIME-style forwarding of messages > > now? > Nope. :-) But that should be trivial now -- just put the message to > be forwarded in a buffer and include a tag that includes that > message/rfc822 buffer. It was an old message, as the `Nope.' is not true anymore. By the way, Lars! Could we have something, I do not know, maybe like `C-u C-c C-a', that would say `Attach buffer: ' instead of `Attach file: '? With proper completion, of course? In case you are taking votes :-), I like the new effect of `S o m'. Agreed that Gnus may somewhat try to live with other broken MIME decoders, but there are limits to the ugliness, and Gnus is not to be responsible of everything around. Let users, a bit, pay the price of their (bad) choices. I find irritating, sometimes, when people feel they have to put on their own shoulders the problems of everybody around, and then, try to bring me with them in their descent. Broken MIME is just an example. The most common case for me is when French people try to be polite to those having broken mailers, by emasculating out diacritics. They are getting quite impolite to all people for which French is important, and their commiseration for amorph sites and people seems to step over everything. The responsibility and duty of the emitter is towards correctness and good right. If destruction has to happen, it should be at the receiving site, and the responsibility of the destruction identified at that point. The worse happens when the crap is produced at the emitter point: it is then forced on everybody, good guys included, and is difficult to later repair. MIME is not a perfect thing, yet in practice nowadays, it is the way to go. On the other hand, neither Gnus, nor Gnus users, should feel like they ought to cope, as emitters, with all possible aberrations of Outlook MIME. Outlook users should share the large part of the problems induced by their choice. I much hope that Lars will never dirty my own Gnus screen merely because Outlook exists. Lars' mission is not to repair the marriage between Microsoft and Outlook users. It pertains to Microsoft to do that :-). -- François Pinard mailto:pinard@iro.umontreal.ca Join the free Translation Project! http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: MIME->MML 1999-02-23 2:07 ` MIME->MML François Pinard @ 1999-02-26 7:57 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1999-02-26 15:41 ` MIME->MML Kai.Grossjohann 0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1999-02-26 7:57 UTC (permalink / raw) François Pinard <pinard@iro.umontreal.ca> writes: > Could we have something, I do not know, maybe like `C-u C-c C-a', > that would say `Attach buffer: ' instead of `Attach file: '? With proper > completion, of course? Sure. But I think we probably should have a more extensive range of MML insertion commands, move them to mml.el and put them on a common MML keymap. And then `M-m f' (or whatever) would attach a file, `M-m b' a buffer, and, er, I'm sure there should be more commands, but I can't think of any at the moment. Uhm. Oh -- `M-m m' to insert a multipart, and `M-m p' to insert a part. `M-m v' to verify that the MML in the buffer is correct? But `M-m' is taken, I guess. > MIME is not a perfect thing, yet in practice nowadays, it is the way to go. Yes. I'm quite surprised at how workable MIME is turning out to be. I mean, MIME may not be pretty or anything, but it can be made to work, and you can do useful stuff with it. And I didn't think that was the case. It seems that other MIME implemetators haven't really gotten beyond their natural aversion to the stuff, though. :-) -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: MIME->MML 1999-02-26 7:57 ` MIME->MML Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1999-02-26 15:41 ` Kai.Grossjohann 1999-02-26 16:35 ` MIME->MML Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Kai.Grossjohann @ 1999-02-26 15:41 UTC (permalink / raw) Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > [...] Oh -- `M-m m' to insert a multipart, and `M-m p' to insert a > part. [...] Yes, yes, yes! Just like C-c C-e in psgml! :-) kai -- I like _\bb_\bo_\bt_\bh kinds of music. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: MIME->MML 1999-02-26 15:41 ` MIME->MML Kai.Grossjohann @ 1999-02-26 16:35 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1999-02-26 16:35 UTC (permalink / raw) Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE writes: > > [...] Oh -- `M-m m' to insert a multipart, and `M-m p' to insert a > > part. [...] > > Yes, yes, yes! Just like C-c C-e in psgml! :-) I've now added mml-mode and stuff to 0.78, but I don't seem to feel like actually writing these commands just yet. If someone wants to give it a whack, 0.78 should be out later today... -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~1999-02-26 16:35 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 17+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 1999-02-04 0:06 MIME->MML Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1999-02-04 7:49 ` MIME->MML Steinar Bang 1999-02-04 16:58 ` MIME->MML Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1999-02-04 17:18 ` MIME->MML Hrvoje Niksic 1999-02-04 17:39 ` MIME->MML Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1999-02-04 18:47 ` MIME->MML Hrvoje Niksic 1999-02-04 21:14 ` MIME->MML Alexandre Oliva 1999-02-09 14:51 ` MIME->MML Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1999-02-09 17:24 ` MIME->MML Hrvoje Niksic 1999-02-09 17:52 ` MIME->MML Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1999-02-09 18:31 ` MIME->MML Hrvoje Niksic 1999-02-09 19:02 ` MIME->MML Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1999-02-04 19:25 ` MIME->MML James H. Cloos Jr. 1999-02-23 2:07 ` MIME->MML François Pinard 1999-02-26 7:57 ` MIME->MML Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1999-02-26 15:41 ` MIME->MML Kai.Grossjohann 1999-02-26 16:35 ` MIME->MML Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
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