From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/86450 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.gnus.general,gmane.emacs.sxemacs.devel Subject: Moving Gnus development to Emacs? Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 12:43:12 +0100 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1451475846 13225 80.91.229.3 (30 Dec 2015 11:44:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 11:44:06 +0000 (UTC) Cc: yamaoka@jpl.org, sxemacs-devel@sxemacs.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: ding@gnus.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 30 12:43:53 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aEFAX-0004rh-7g for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 30 Dec 2015 12:43:53 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51887 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aEFAW-0004jr-9S for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 30 Dec 2015 06:43:52 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51143) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aEFAO-0004jb-Cf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Dec 2015 06:43:48 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aEFAJ-00041M-Oh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Dec 2015 06:43:44 -0500 Original-Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:48216) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aEFAJ-00040j-I5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Dec 2015 06:43:39 -0500 Original-Received: from cm-84.215.1.64.getinternet.no ([84.215.1.64] helo=stories) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1aEF9s-0003g9-Lz; Wed, 30 Dec 2015 12:43:12 +0100 Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAADFBMVEXmbwryjxH7vhy6PQdD 1ZnqAAACOUlEQVQokR3SP2gTURwH8N/z/khKy6U0F0wWcVHpFEGdCpc0aUCx5GLuRXMIaquR3FQd pdDTasFFRXLBBIdackneWwRnIVdjlhDJYpdsgi6drhXrcvH56m/7wPfLd/lBUsUWpS3qYLMNqSLG xzCMeBtQKcNBKX491QSEk1FK72OcnOpwQLZBUpW9hUEHJIyiptsoJdiAgHQPFedrlKyxMQHVALVc p+7GaJ+jCoZ1nTobzOTQwym6SBwteP8fF0h2Z3sUuCVQM3qffHyaZn9nfwKeXZffdHWfHTy8Ahgd yO4rxtif3WWIgBcqFXJc3zkS3q7ZHnHcWQbB6/2Yd4OI9vnuDKSF4aLpTiIs5qzDtODLxc6lQtB6 sQEJpRezOpc3D52bGvhsRjWNR92Q+Y6B4HuqIdl+jG4zUEYZ9ZZcU1dolQHzAF/sU6tGDQ4RjC99 Um7QGwEEYbQqqm4lTh74EOiokDifr1x1b/vgX/tdEKjqUueTBz6g3Dmr+LLx3BeBCVLubJ3MW/o3 EYYJKXeU3SZ02sjDgictaePHreaJaoqPhpB+ar/VjmEdRl5ErZymrl7CSWA+MioTDtwUeGzPaR/R FRuTHngQdT4Mdrbs4lsAb0Z2uuaWbOebHCA7LKZGbZxXONDm5Ay27CWJcUA3g7LWE1HsAb9De21A 7VkQwAsrkjE3ps/Ek8edAPR0nFZFgUOYLObBotiY0yCsfEVCOM7fJf0LwtpQYtNxUq4qIwAFpYda tG7pivIPCUH8fpOoqUYAAAAASUVORK5CYII= User-Agent: Gnus/5.130014 (Ma Gnus v0.14) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) X-MailScanner-ID: 1aEF9s-0003g9-Lz MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1452080593.38067@DH2VI17cSiYgVwDz0sgbkQ X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.224.195 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:197168 gmane.emacs.gnus.general:86450 gmane.emacs.sxemacs.devel:3565 Archived-At: (Excuse the crossposting.) Back in the olden days, there were basically two reasons for doing the Gnus development outside of Emacs: 1) Emacs was releasing very slowly, and Gnus very fast, and 2) XEmacs was an important target for development. 1) is not true any more. And XEmacs isn't as vital as it used to be. And the SXEmacs peeps just started maintaining their own Gnus repo, which means that this might be a good opportunity to discontinue the git.gnus.org repo and just continue development on the Emacs trunk instead. Emacs has developed rapidly during the last few years, and the interfaces between Emacs, older versions of Emacs, and XEmacs are growing more divergent. This means that basically any change we do in Gnus fails to build on all build targets. And this, in turn, means that any change we do in Gnus is 2x as much work as it should be, and this leaves the code looking like an exercise in obfuscated programming. Sometimes. :-) So: I want to know how all y'all would feel if I closed git.gnus.org and started bringing the Gnus code base in the Emacs trunk up to modern Emacs standards. That would mean removing basically all compat code. No more `mm-string-as-unibyte'. No more `gnus-invisible-p'. Freedom! -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no