Gnus reads megabytes from NNTP on startup?

Gnus reads megabytes from NNTP on startup?

[Michael Sperber [Mr. Preprocessor]]

A FAQ around here from new Gnus users is that, when they start Gnus
from scratch, it reads >100Megabytes from the nntp server for hours,
and then they give up.  I've usually told people to fiddle with

`gnus-read-active-file' and `gnus-check-new-newsgroups',

but they tell me it doesn't help.  The only remote reference I could
find in the ding archives (what's a good search keyword for this?) is:

http://www.gnus.org/list-archives/ding/199708/msg00087.html

which isn't very helpful.

Can anyone help?

-- 
Cheers =8-} Mike
Friede, Völkerverständigung und überhaupt blabla

Re: Gnus reads megabytes from NNTP on startup?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

sperber@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (Michael Sperber [Mr. Preprocessor]) writes:

> A FAQ around here from new Gnus users is that, when they start Gnus
> from scratch, it reads >100Megabytes from the nntp server for hours,
> and then they give up.  I've usually told people to fiddle with
> 
> `gnus-read-active-file' and `gnus-check-new-newsgroups',
> 
> but they tell me it doesn't help. 

If `gnus-read-active-file' is `some' (which is the default), Gnus
shouldn't be reading megs of stuff on startup...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Gnus reads megabytes from NNTP on startup?

[Michael Sperber [Mr. Preprocessor]]

>>>>> "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

Lars> sperber@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (Michael Sperber [Mr. Preprocessor]) writes:

>> A FAQ around here from new Gnus users is that, when they start Gnus
>> from scratch, it reads >100Megabytes from the nntp server for hours,
>> and then they give up.  I've usually told people to fiddle with
>> 
>> `gnus-read-active-file' and `gnus-check-new-newsgroups',
>> 
>> but they tell me it doesn't help. 

Lars> If `gnus-read-active-file' is `some' (which is the default), Gnus
Lars> shouldn't be reading megs of stuff on startup...

Actually, the problem has turned out to be something else entirely.
Because of some administrative fuckup, my co-worker's machine didn't
have permissions to use the NNTP server in question.  The server would
send:

480 Authentication required for command

... but Gnus would just plod on, and fill up Emacs with zillions of
copies of this message.  I haven't studied the problem in detail,
which is why I haven't followed up.

-- 
Cheers =8-} Mike
Friede, Völkerverständigung und überhaupt blabla

Re: Gnus reads megabytes from NNTP on startup?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

sperber@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (Michael Sperber [Mr. Preprocessor]) writes:

> The server would send:
> 
> 480 Authentication required for command
> 
> ... but Gnus would just plod on, and fill up Emacs with zillions of
> copies of this message.  I haven't studied the problem in detail,
> which is why I haven't followed up.

That sounds like nntp.el isn't checking for error messages when trying 
to do the `some' active file retrieval.  Could you try to set
`nntp-record-commands' to t and see what commands Gnus are sending out 
when it does this?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Gnus reads megabytes from NNTP on startup?

[Markus Leypold]

 > 
 > Lars> sperber@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (Michael Sperber [Mr. Preprocessor]) writes:
 > 
 > >> A FAQ around here from new Gnus users is that, when they start Gnus
 > >> from scratch, it reads >100Megabytes from the nntp server for hours,
 > >> and then they give up.  I've usually told people to fiddle with
 > >> 
 > >> `gnus-read-active-file' and `gnus-check-new-newsgroups',
 > >> 
 > >> but they tell me it doesn't help. 
 > 
 > Lars> If `gnus-read-active-file' is `some' (which is the default), Gnus
 > Lars> shouldn't be reading megs of stuff on startup...
 > 
 > Actually, the problem has turned out to be something else entirely.
 > Because of some administrative fuckup, my co-worker's machine didn't
 > have permissions to use the NNTP server in question.  The server would
 > send:
 > 
 > 480 Authentication required for command
 > 
 > ... but Gnus would just plod on, and fill up Emacs with zillions of
 > copies of this message.  I haven't studied the problem in detail,
 > which is why I haven't followed up.

Hello Friends,

I'm the co-worker in question. Thanks to Mike S for sending the
original bug report (or something to that effect). I just would like
to fill in some details:

 * IP->name DNS Lookup for my machine was not working if done by the
   news server.

 * The news server (for some obscure reason) had been set up in a way
   to refuse *some* commands with '480 Authentication required for
   command'.  I could say 'help' but not 'list active' to the server
   (tried it with telnet).

 * In this situation Gnus is asking me actually for a password and a
   username and presumably also authenticates (or tries to). But then
   it does not recognize, that this fails and loops, reading 150Megs
   of 'Authentication required for command' from the server.  

 > A comment about the last point: It seems to me, that this means,
   that Gnus is sending commands to the server for every line of
   'Authentication required for command' which is returned. So the
   problem could not be just a single attempt to 'list active'.

 * Setting `gnus-read-active-file' to nil did not help. This was my
   original approach. This might be, because the loop in question does
   not occur in reading the the active file but somewhere else (see
   comment above) but I also had the impression when skimming through
   the relevant code, that `gnus-read-active-file' doesn't work any
   more.
 
 * There are news servers, that react differently (You have no
   permission to talk, or something similar) to a machine with
   incomplete DNS entries. Gnus can handle this situation.

 * For me, this problem is 100% reproducible with this news server.
   I just remove part of the DNS entries for my client machine and
   voila: Gnus is running Amok.



Regards -- Markus

Re: Gnus reads megabytes from NNTP on startup?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Markus Leypold <leypold@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> writes:

>  > A comment about the last point: It seems to me, that this means,
>    that Gnus is sending commands to the server for every line of
>    'Authentication required for command' which is returned. So the
>    problem could not be just a single attempt to 'list active'.

Try setting `nntp-record-commands', run Gnus and see what ends up in
the *nntp-log* buffer.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Gnus reads megabytes from NNTP on startup?

[Russ Allbery]

Markus Leypold <leypold@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> writes:

>  * The news server (for some obscure reason) had been set up in a way
>    to refuse *some* commands with '480 Authentication required for
>    command'.  I could say 'help' but not 'list active' to the server
>    (tried it with telnet).

This is, incidentally, normal, at least in my experience for
password-required news servers.  It can even go farther than that,
allowing you to read some newsgroups but require authentication to read
other ones or to post.

News readers really have to be prepared to handle 480 responses at almost
any point in the NNTP dialog.

-- 
Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu)             <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Re: Gnus reads megabytes from NNTP on startup?

[Markus Leypold]

 > Delivered-To: leypold@lesbains.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de
 > From: Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu>

 > Markus Leypold <leypold@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> writes:
 > 
 > >  * The news server (for some obscure reason) had been set up in a way
 > >    to refuse *some* commands with '480 Authentication required for
 > >    command'.  I could say 'help' but not 'list active' to the server
 > >    (tried it with telnet).
 > 
 > This is, incidentally, normal, at least in my experience for
 > password-required news servers.  It can even go farther than that,

Certainly. This I know. But the catch is that gnus doesn't recognize
nor handle this situation correctly. Furthermore I wanted to hint,
that in 'nature' there seem to occur 2 different reactions of
newsservers to clients whose name they cannot get from the DNS: Some
answer 'You have no permission to talk', and this situation IS handled
OK by Gnus.

 > allowing you to read some newsgroups but require authentication to read
 > other ones or to post.

Makes sense. Local Newsgroups just for one working group or stuff like
that.

 > 
 > News readers really have to be prepared to handle 480 responses at almost
 > any point in the NNTP dialog.

Yup.

Regards -- Markus

 > 
 > -- 
 > Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu)             <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
 > 
 >