From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/58938 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jesper Harder Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: changing gnus-group-posting-charset-alist Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:35:55 +0200 Sender: ding-owner@lists.math.uh.edu Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1098131853 14833 80.91.229.6 (18 Oct 2004 20:37:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:37:33 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: ding-owner+M7476@lists.math.uh.edu Mon Oct 18 22:37:15 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from malifon.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.13] ident=mail) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CJeFm-0005Xz-00 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:37:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.math.uh.edu ident=lists) by malifon.math.uh.edu with smtp (Exim 3.20 #1) id 1CJeF4-0006f6-00; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:36:30 -0500 Original-Received: from util2.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.23]) by malifon.math.uh.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.20 #1) id 1CJeEx-0006f0-00 for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:36:23 -0500 Original-Received: from justine.libertine.org ([66.139.78.221] ident=postfix) by util2.math.uh.edu with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CJeEv-00054J-MY for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:36:21 -0500 Original-Received: from fitch5.uni2.net (fitch5.uni2.net [130.227.52.108]) by justine.libertine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55A2B3A005E for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:36:18 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: from defun.localdomain (83.72.232.87.ip.tele2adsl.dk [83.72.232.87]) by fitch5.uni2.net (8.12.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i9IKaGWI025670 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:36:17 +0200 Original-To: ding@gnus.org Mail-Followup-To: ding@gnus.org In-Reply-To: (Katsumi Yamaoka's message of "Fri, 15 Oct 2004 19:30:00 +0900") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) Precedence: bulk Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:58938 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general:58938 Katsumi Yamaoka writes: > | gnus-group-posting-charset-alist's value is > | (("^\\(no\\|fr\\)..." iso-8859-1 (iso-8859-1)) > | ("^\\(fido7\\|relcom\\)..." koi8-r (koi8-r)) > | (message-this-is-mail nil nil) > | (message-this-is-news nil t)) > > Is it still necessary not to encode text by qp or something to > post news articles to no, fr, fido7 and relcom newsgroups? I think the reason for the special entries isn't CTE=QP as such, but that those hierarchies don't want rfc2047-encoded headers. > As for other newsgroups, Gnus forces the 8bit encoding especially > to news articles' body by default. Isn't it a vestige of the > time when Gnus had not been multiligualized? It is hard for me > to imagine there's a difference between mail and news. The major difference is that NNTP is 8bit-clean whereas SMTP isn't. Or more precisely: The NNTP draft standard states that NNTP is 8bit-clean (which has been true for a long time). The SMTP standard says you shouldn't use 8bit in email except when the server supports the ESMTP extension 8BITMIME. In practice SMTP probably _is_ 8bit-clean today -- but we wouln't want a heavily armed IETF squad team knocking at the door because we're violating RFC 2821. Which is why we use CTE=QP. > Almost Japanese text which I write can be encoded by iso-2022-jp > and 7bit. So, those text will be posted as 7bit articles. > However, I sometimes followup to articles containing characters > which cannot be encoded by 7bit. In those cases, text will be > encoded by shift_jis, utf-8 and so forth and fed to the server > without being encoded with qp or base64. A newsreader posting > such articles may be only Gnus nowadays. It's interesting that your perspective is the opposite of mine: I see QP mainly as an annoying concession to maybe a few old SMTP servers which still aren't 8bit-clean. If possible I'd prefer 8bit everywhere, because you can use the text directly without decoding it first, for example you can grep your mailbox directly. I'm not saying that you're wrong, but that this preference is probably locale-dependent. -- Jesper Harder