Problem with Groups of the same name under different backends

Problem with Groups of the same name under different backends

[SL Baur]

Hopefully this is a simple reproduction of a problem that has been
plaguing me for over a year with respect to renamed nnml groups.

Starting from a blank .newsrc in a brand new account without a .emacs
I customized Gnus to point to the correct NNTP server[1], then I
subscribed to the group gnu.misc.discuss and created the nnml group 
nnml:gnu.misc.discuss.  Then I entered the NNTP version of that group
and caught up all but one message.  I then quit Gnus (saving the
.newsrc.eld) and quit XEmacs.

After restarting XEmacs I started Gnus and entered the
gnu.misc.discuss nntp group and `B c'ed the single message left from
the above into nnml:gnu.misc.discuss.  After immediately exiting the
NNTP group the read message count is wrong and I see in the dribble file:

(gnus-group-set-info '("gnu.misc.discuss" 3 ((1 . 2882))))
(gnus-group-set-info '("gnu.misc.discuss" 3 ((1 . 2882))))
(gnus-group-set-info '("gnu.misc.discuss" 3 ((1 . 2467))))


This is with Gnus-5.6.39 and XEmacs 21.0-pre10, though I have
experienced problems similar to the above for at least a year.

Footnotes: 
[1]  If `gnus-nntp-server' hasn't been customized and it fails, why is
the variable containing "/etc/nntpserver" not tried as a fallback?

Re: Problem with Groups of the same name under different backends

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

SL Baur <steve@xemacs.org> writes:

> Starting from a blank .newsrc in a brand new account without a .emacs
> I customized Gnus to point to the correct NNTP server[1], then I
> subscribed to the group gnu.misc.discuss and created the nnml group 
> nnml:gnu.misc.discuss.  Then I entered the NNTP version of that group
> and caught up all but one message.  I then quit Gnus (saving the
> .newsrc.eld) and quit XEmacs.
> 
> After restarting XEmacs I started Gnus and entered the
> gnu.misc.discuss nntp group and `B c'ed the single message left from
> the above into nnml:gnu.misc.discuss.  After immediately exiting the
> NNTP group the read message count is wrong and I see in the dribble file:
> 
> (gnus-group-set-info '("gnu.misc.discuss" 3 ((1 . 2882))))
> (gnus-group-set-info '("gnu.misc.discuss" 3 ((1 . 2882))))
> (gnus-group-set-info '("gnu.misc.discuss" 3 ((1 . 2467))))

Hm.  I tried to reproduce this from an empty account, but I get:

(gnus-group-set-info '("gnu.misc.discuss" 3 ((1 . 47007)))) 
(gnus-group-set-info '("gnu.misc.discuss" 3 ((1 . 47007)))) 
(gnus-group-set-info '("gnu.misc.discuss" 3 ((1 . 47007)))) 

And I'm unable to get any interference between the nnml group and the
nntp group.

> [1]  If `gnus-nntp-server' hasn't been customized and it fails, why is
> the variable containing "/etc/nntpserver" not tried as a fallback?

That value is only mentioned in the obsolete `gnus-nntpserver-file'
variable.  I've now marked it as such.

As for why nntp doesn't look in that file...  Uhm...  Is it used much?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Problem with Groups of the same name under different backends

[SL Baur]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes in ding@gnus.org:

> Hm.  I tried to reproduce this from an empty account, but I get:

> (gnus-group-set-info '("gnu.misc.discuss" 3 ((1 . 47007)))) 
> (gnus-group-set-info '("gnu.misc.discuss" 3 ((1 . 47007)))) 
> (gnus-group-set-info '("gnu.misc.discuss" 3 ((1 . 47007)))) 

> And I'm unable to get any interference between the nnml group and the
> nntp group.

I see.  What version of emacs did you test with?  Did you try it with
any version of XEmacs?

Re: Problem with Groups of the same name under different backends

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

SL Baur <steve@xemacs.org> writes:

> > And I'm unable to get any interference between the nnml group and the
> > nntp group.
> 
> I see.  What version of emacs did you test with?  Did you try it with
> any version of XEmacs?

That was with XEmacs 19.15.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Problem with Groups of the same name under different backends

[SL Baur]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes in ding@gnus.org:

> SL Baur <steve@xemacs.org> writes:
>> > And I'm unable to get any interference between the nnml group and the
>> > nntp group.
>> 
>> I see.  What version of emacs did you test with?  Did you try it with
>> any version of XEmacs?

> That was with XEmacs 19.15.

O.K.  I no longer have 19.15 binaries, but 19.16 should be the same.
I'll give that a try.

Re: Problem with Groups of the same name under different backends

[SL Baur]

SL Baur <steve@xemacs.org> writes in ding@gnus.org:

> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes in ding@gnus.org:
>> SL Baur <steve@xemacs.org> writes:
 ...
>>> I see.  What version of emacs did you test with?  Did you try it with
>>> any version of XEmacs?

>> That was with XEmacs 19.15.

> O.K.  I no longer have 19.15 binaries, but 19.16 should be the same.
> I'll give that a try.

And, of course, XEmacs 19.16 failed the same way XEmacs 21.0 and Emacs 
20.2 do.

(gnus-group-set-info '("gnu.misc.discuss" 3 ((1 . 2872) (2874 . 2885))))
(gnus-group-set-info '("gnu.misc.discuss" 3 ((1 . 2872) (2874 . 2885))))
(gnus-group-set-info '("gnu.misc.discuss" 3 ((1 . 2474))))

If you can't reproduce it on Emacs 20.x, I guess I'll cons up an
XEmacs 19.15 binary and check that.  Sigh.

Re: Problem with Groups of the same name under different backends

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

SL Baur <steve@xemacs.org> writes:

> And, of course, XEmacs 19.16 failed the same way XEmacs 21.0 and Emacs 
> 20.2 do.
> 
> (gnus-group-set-info '("gnu.misc.discuss" 3 ((1 . 2872) (2874 . 2885))))
> (gnus-group-set-info '("gnu.misc.discuss" 3 ((1 . 2872) (2874 . 2885))))
> (gnus-group-set-info '("gnu.misc.discuss" 3 ((1 . 2474))))

Hm...  Does this group have a cache, by any chance?

Anyway, could you debug-on-entry `gnus-dribble-enter' and send me the
three backtraces produced?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Problem with Groups of the same name under different backends

[SL Baur]

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Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes in ding@gnus.org:

> SL Baur <steve@xemacs.org> writes:
>> And, of course, XEmacs 19.16 failed the same way XEmacs 21.0 and Emacs 
>> 20.2 do.
>> 
>> (gnus-group-set-info '("gnu.misc.discuss" 3 ((1 . 2872) (2874 . 2885))))
>> (gnus-group-set-info '("gnu.misc.discuss" 3 ((1 . 2872) (2874 . 2885))))
>> (gnus-group-set-info '("gnu.misc.discuss" 3 ((1 . 2474))))

> Hm...  Does this group have a cache, by any chance?

No.  I will never use caches again after the server renumbering fiasco.

> Anyway, could you debug-on-entry `gnus-dribble-enter' and send me the
> three backtraces produced?

I'm going to try an unbytecompiled version next and email it to you
off-list.


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Entering:
* gnus-dribble-enter("(gnus-group-set-info '(\"gnu.misc.discuss\" 3 ((1 . 2894))))")
  gnus-summary-move-article(nil nil nil copy)
  gnus-summary-copy-article(nil)
  call-interactively(gnus-summary-copy-article)
Entering:
* gnus-dribble-enter("(gnus-group-set-info '(\"gnu.misc.discuss\" 3 ((1 . 2894))))")
  gnus-group-update-group("gnu.misc.discuss")
  gnus-group-get-new-news-this-group(1 t)
  gnus-summary-move-article(nil nil nil copy)
  gnus-summary-copy-article(nil)
  call-interactively(gnus-summary-copy-article)
Entering:
* gnus-dribble-enter("(gnus-group-set-info '(\"gnu.misc.discuss\" 3 ((1 . 2518))))")
  gnus-group-update-group("gnu.misc.discuss")
  gnus-summary-update-info()
  #<compiled-function (&optional temporary) "...(541)" [gnus-set-global-variables gnus-kill-save-kill-buffer gnus-async-halt-prefetch gnus-newsgroup-name group gnus-group-quit-config quit-config major-mode mode nil group-point buf gnus-run-hooks gnus-summary-prepare-exit-hook gnus-single-article-buffer gnus-original-article-buffer buffer get-buffer buffer-name kill-buffer gnus-article-current gnus-use-cache gnus-cache-possibly-remove-articles gnus-cache-save-buffers gnus-async-prefetch-remove-group gnus-suppress-duplicates gnus-dup-enter-articles gnus-use-trees gnus-tree-close nnmail-purge-split-history gname string-match "^[^:]+:" 0 gnus-exit-group-hook gnus-summary-update-info gnus-newsgroup-adaptive gnus-score-adaptive gnus-use-scoring gnus-score-save gnus-close-group gnus-group-buffer gnus-group-jump-to-group gnus-summary-exit-hook gnus-group-group-name gnus-group-next-unread-group 1 temporary gnus-article-buffer gnus-kill-summary-on-exit ...] 5 ("/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xe
 m!
!
!
!
acs-packages/lisp/gnus/gnus-sum.elc" . 135299) nil>()
  call-interactively(gnus-summary-exit)

Re: Problem with Groups of the same name under different backends

[SL Baur]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes in ding@gnus.org:

> Hm.  I tried to reproduce this from an empty account, but I get:

> (gnus-group-set-info '("gnu.misc.discuss" 3 ((1 . 47007)))) 
> (gnus-group-set-info '("gnu.misc.discuss" 3 ((1 . 47007)))) 
> (gnus-group-set-info '("gnu.misc.discuss" 3 ((1 . 47007)))) 

> And I'm unable to get any interference between the nnml group and the
> nntp group.

O.K.  I tried this again with Emacs 20.2 (Gnus-5.6.39 bytecompiled
with Emacs 20.1) and the same thing happened.  I don't have Emacs 20.3 
built, so I can't yet test against that one, and 19.34 drops core when 
run due to unwise use of -rpath.

(gnus-group-set-info '("gnu.misc.discuss" 3 ((1 . 2876) (2878 . 2885))))
(gnus-group-set-info '("gnu.misc.discuss" 3 ((1 . 2876) (2878 . 2885))))
(gnus-group-set-info '("gnu.misc.discuss" 3 ((1 . 2474))))

Re: Problem with Groups of the same name under different backends

[Hrvoje Niksic]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> > [1] If `gnus-nntp-server' hasn't been customized and it fails, why
> > is the variable containing "/etc/nntpserver" not tried as a
> > fallback?
> 
> That value is only mentioned in the obsolete `gnus-nntpserver-file'
> variable.  I've now marked it as such.
> 
> As for why nntp doesn't look in that file...  Uhm...  Is it used
> much?

What `/etc/nntpserver'?  It's used quite a lot, because it's a
convenient way to set up the system-wide NNTP server default,
especially on multi-user machines.  (I have it on machine where I
work.)

-- 
Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia
--------------------------------+--------------------------------
ED WILL NOT CORRUPT YOUR PRECIOUS BODILY FLUIDS!!

Re: Problem with Groups of the same name under different backends

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes:

> > As for why nntp doesn't look in that file...  Uhm...  Is it used
> > much?
> 
> What `/etc/nntpserver'?  It's used quite a lot, because it's a
> convenient way to set up the system-wide NNTP server default,
> especially on multi-user machines.  (I have it on machine where I
> work.)

I was wrong -- it is used, but only as the default if
`gnus-select-method' hasn't been defined.  Which is as it should be, I
think. 

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Problem with Groups of the same name under different backends

[Kai Grossjohann]

>>>>> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

  > As for why nntp doesn't look in that file...  Uhm...  Is it used
  > much?

It seems that Linux distributions have config programs which put the
address of the NNTP server in that file and all newsreaders are set up
to use that.

kai
-- 
OOP: object oriented programming;  OOPS: object oriented mistakes