Re: I hate MULE (and compile warnings)

Re: I hate MULE (and compile warnings)

[守岡 知彦 / MORIOKA Tomohiko]

>>>>> In <x71zzxujm9.fsf@peorth.gweep.net> 
>>>>>	"Rat" = Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> wrote:

Rat> Since the MULE team has decided to splinter their own version of
Rat> Gnus, can we have a MULE-less Gnus when Quassia goes into
Rat> release?

  I have never heard MULE team has decided to splinter their own
version of Gnus.

  Our small project "Semi-gnus" is for SEMI, and it is replacement of
Gnus-MIME.  Attachment implementation, such as Gnus-MIME, is
restricted design by interface between Gnus and MIME processing
module.  I gave up some problems in tm or Gnus-MIME but I decided to
solve them.  I think major targets are message-mode and good handling
for message/partial.  At first they are implemented for SEMI, then I
would like found good interface between Gnus and SEMI.  After good
interface are found, it should be implemented independent of SEMI.
Such kind of result can be feedback to Gnus.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
MORIOKA Tomohiko <morioka@jaist.ac.jp>
        Japan advanced Institute of Science and Technology, Hokuriku
                Asahi-dai, Tatsu-no-kuchi chô, Nomi, Ishikawa, Japan
------------------------------------------ Frisch, Frei, Fröhlich! ---

Re: I hate MULE (and compile warnings)

[Alan Shutko]

>>>>> "MT" == 守岡 知彦 / MORIOKA Tomohiko <morioka@jaist.ac.jp> writes:

>>>>> In <x71zzxujm9.fsf@peorth.gweep.net> 
>>>>>> "Rat" = Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> wrote:

Rat> Since the MULE team has decided to splinter their own version of
Rat> Gnus, can we have a MULE-less Gnus when Quassia goes into
Rat> release?

MT>   I have never heard MULE team has decided to splinter their own
MT> version of Gnus.

MT>   Our small project "Semi-gnus" is for SEMI, and it is replacement
MT> of Gnus-MIME. 


Thank you for clearing this up.  When I read:

    Open gnus is a replacement of Gnus with gnus-mime for SEMI.
    Current version is based on Quassia Gnus v0.17.

    It has all features of Gnus and gnus-mime, so there are no need to
    install Gnus to use it, and you must not use gnus-mime for SEMI.

I thought it was a splinter version of Gnus, not Gnus-MIME.

-- 
Alan Shutko <ats@acm.org> - By consent of the corrupted
If you try to please everyone, somebody is not going to like it.

Re: I hate MULE (and compile warnings)

[Hrvoje Niksic]

fdc@cliwe.ping.de (Frank D. Cringle) writes:

> Is XEmacs 20.3 on general release?

XEmacs 20.3 has been officially released two days ago.

> I have been waiting for someone to
> mention a URL, having failed to find it with the usual search
> engines.

<URL:ftp://ftp.xemacs.org/pub/xemacs-20.3/>

(the site's welcoming message says that current version is 20.2, but
don't trust it.  See comp.emacs.xemacs for SL Baur's announcement.)

> I did not get any hits at all for XEmacs + NoMule.

Just compile XEmacs.  Mule is turned *off* by default.

-- 
Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia
--------------------------------+--------------------------------
"A Real Programmer's code can awe with its fiendish brilliance, even
as its crockishness appalls."

Re: I hate MULE (and compile warnings)

[Danny Siu]

Frank D Cringle writes:

  Frank> Jason R Mastaler <jason@4b.org> writes:
  >>
  >> Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> writes:
  >>
  >>> Hm... maybe it's time for a closer look...?
  >>
  >> Absolutely.  Compiling XEmacs with high optimization will help too.
  >>
  >>> But I tend to favour the speed and responseness I get from 19.34.  Is
  >>> it as good as 19.34 on the same platforms?
  >>
  >> I can't say for sure, but it probably won't be as "fast".  But, Emacs
  >> 19.28 was faster than 19.34, etc.  You will be getting quite a few
  >> substantial improvements with XEmacs 20.3 for a small price in speed.
  >> IMO, GNU Emacs 19.34 and XEmacs 20.3 aren't even in the same league.
  >> BTW, on my system XEmacs 20.3 is faster and more responsive than GNU
  >> Emacs 20.2.

  Frank> Is XEmacs 20.3 on general release?  I have been waiting for someone
  Frank> to mention a URL, having failed to find it with the usual search
  Frank> engines.  I did not get any hits at all for XEmacs + NoMule.

Yeah.  It is in:

<URL:ftp://ftp.xemacs.org/pub/xemacs/xemacs-20.3>

  Frank> -- Frank Cringle, fdc@cliwe.ping.de voice: (+49 2304) 467101; fax:
  Frank> 943357

-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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 WebReady Printing Group           mailto:dsiu@alumni.eecs.berkeley.edu 
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Re: I hate MULE (and compile warnings)

[Jason R Mastaler]

fdc@cliwe.ping.de (Frank D. Cringle) writes:

> Is XEmacs 20.3 on general release?  I have been waiting for someone to
> mention a URL, having failed to find it with the usual search engines.
> I did not get any hits at all for XEmacs + NoMule.

Yes, as of a few days ago.  See http://www.xemacs.org/

Re: I hate MULE (and compile warnings)

[Frank D. Cringle]

Jason R Mastaler <jason@4b.org> writes:
>
>Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> writes:
>
>> Hm... maybe it's time for a closer look...?
>
>Absolutely.  Compiling XEmacs with high optimization will help too.
>
>> But I tend to favour the speed and responseness I get from 19.34.  Is
>> it as good as 19.34 on the same platforms?
>
>I can't say for sure, but it probably won't be as "fast".  But, Emacs
>19.28 was faster than 19.34, etc.  You will be getting quite a few
>substantial improvements with XEmacs 20.3 for a small price in speed.
>IMO, GNU Emacs 19.34 and XEmacs 20.3 aren't even in the same league.
>BTW, on my system XEmacs 20.3 is faster and more responsive than GNU
>Emacs 20.2.

Is XEmacs 20.3 on general release?  I have been waiting for someone to
mention a URL, having failed to find it with the usual search engines.
I did not get any hits at all for XEmacs + NoMule.

-- 
Frank Cringle,      fdc@cliwe.ping.de
voice: (+49 2304) 467101; fax: 943357

Re: I hate MULE (and compile warnings)

[Jason R Mastaler]

Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> writes:

> Hm... maybe it's time for a closer look...?

Absolutely.  Compiling XEmacs with high optimization will help too.

> But I tend to favour the speed and responseness I get from 19.34.  Is
> it as good as 19.34 on the same platforms?

I can't say for sure, but it probably won't be as "fast".  But, Emacs
19.28 was faster than 19.34, etc.  You will be getting quite a few
substantial improvements with XEmacs 20.3 for a small price in speed.
IMO, GNU Emacs 19.34 and XEmacs 20.3 aren't even in the same league.
BTW, on my system XEmacs 20.3 is faster and more responsive than GNU
Emacs 20.2.

Re: I hate MULE (and compile warnings)

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> SL Baur <steve@xemacs.org>:

> Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> writes:
>> Huh! Speaking for myself, the company's emacs installations will not
>> be upgraded from 19.34, until the MULE-mess is sorted out (GNU emacs
>> 20 has a default build option without MULE).

> So, use XEmacs then. 

I've been using 19.16 (I think it was) for Gnus.  Too slow on my
SPARCstation 5.

> You not only don't have to build with Mule, you don't have to
> download any of the Mule related files.  XEmacs 20.3-NoMule is
> *much* faster than its predecessors.

Hm... maybe it's time for a closer look...?

But I tend to favour the speed and responseness I get from 19.34.  Is
it as good as 19.34 on the same platforms?

Re: I hate MULE (and compile warnings)

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Kai Grossjohann <grossjohann@charly.cs.uni-dortmund.de>:

>>>>> Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> writes:
SB> (GNU emacs 20 has a default build option without MULE).

>>>>> On 02 Dec 1997, Lars Balker Rasmussen said:
Lars> It does?

> No, Steinar wanted to say that he considers `the MULE mess sorted out'
> when that happens.

Correct.

Re: I hate MULE (and compile warnings)

[SL Baur]

Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> writes:

> Huh! Speaking for myself, the company's emacs installations will not
> be upgraded from 19.34, until the MULE-mess is sorted out (GNU emacs
> 20 has a default build option without MULE).

So, use XEmacs then.  You not only don't have to build with Mule,
you don't have to download any of the Mule related files.  XEmacs
20.3-NoMule is *much* faster than its predecessors.

> The point is that these are fundamental design problems.  Not "easily
> solved" problems.

The fundamental design problems that most concern Erik were solved by
Ben Wing almost two years ago.


I like Mule (as implemented in XEmacs) personally, but to each their
own.  I respect that too.

Re: I hate MULE (and compile warnings)

[Kai Grossjohann]

>>>>> Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> writes:
  SB> (GNU emacs 20 has a default build option without MULE).

>>>>> On 02 Dec 1997, Lars Balker Rasmussen said:
  Lars> It does?

No, Steinar wanted to say that he considers `the MULE mess sorted out'
when that happens.

kai
-- 
`A wizard.  A ----ing wizard.  I *hate* ----ing wizards!'  `Well,
don't ---- him, then,' one of his henchmen said, effortlessly
pronouncing a row of dashes.  (Terry Pratchett)

Re: I hate MULE (and compile warnings)

[Lars Balker Rasmussen]

Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> writes:
> (GNU emacs 20 has a default build option without MULE).

It does?
-- 
Lars Balker Rasmussen, Software Engineer, Mjolner Informatics ApS
lbr@mjolner.dk

Re: I hate MULE (and compile warnings)

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Shep Proudfoot <sproudfoot@yahoo.com>:

> I have read Erik's net page regarding a MULE free Emacs.  My point
> is simply; do what you have to do to adapt to the changes introduced
> with Emacs 20 (MULE).  If you can't accept these changes, switch to
> XEmacs which allows the option to build a MULE-FREE Emacs.

Huh! Speaking for myself, the company's emacs installations will not
be upgraded from 19.34, until the MULE-mess is sorted out (GNU emacs
20 has a default build option without MULE).

> Requesting additional Gnus releases based on easily solved problems
> which are shared only by the minority is selfish.

The point is that these are fundamental design problems.  Not "easily
solved" problems.

Re: I hate MULE (and compile warnings)

[Shep Proudfoot]

I have read Erik's net page regarding a MULE free Emacs.
My point is simply; do what you have to do to adapt
to the changes introduced with Emacs 20 (MULE).  If you
can't accept these changes, switch to XEmacs which 
allows the option to build a MULE-FREE Emacs.

Requesting additional Gnus releases based on easily
solved problems which are shared only by the minority 
is selfish.

Shep
  
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Re: I hate MULE (and compile warnings)

[Alan Shutko]

>>>>> "S" == Shep Proudfoot <sproudfoot@yahoo.com> writes:

S> Stuff some more memory into your machine and quit griping about
S> MULE.  It's getting old.

The reason that people complain about Mule isn't just increased memory
consumption.  Take a look through Dejanews for posts by Erik Naggum on
the subject, since I think he's described the objections in the
clearest manner.

-- 
Alan Shutko <ats@acm.org> - By consent of the corrupted
Confession is good for the soul, but bad for the career.

Re: I hate MULE (and compile warnings)

[Shep Proudfoot]

Stuff some more memory into your machine and quit
griping about MULE.  It's getting old.


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