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From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
Subject: Re: Quimby Upgrade
Date: 05 Apr 2001 03:06:40 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <m3u244tasf.fsf@quimbies.gnus.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <deathsquad.m3zodwy0lq.fsf@socha.net>

"Robin S. Socha" <robin@socha.net> writes:

> > I'm going to upgrade Quimby to something faster, more stable and less
> > BSD-ey in the not-too-distant future.  I. e., Debian on a 2xPII
> > instead of OpenBSD on a P.
> 
> You should stop smoking that stuff, really. OK, OpenBSD does not do SMP,
> which is bad. OTOH, is quimby really being hit that hard?

No, the 2xPII is just the machine we have available at the moment.
It's old and weary.  But, yes, Quimby often has a load of 1-4 for
periods of time.  Nothing too dramatic, though, but it will be nice to
be able to run more taxing stuff on Quimby...

> > Have I ever mentioned how un-impressed I am with OpenBSD?  No?  
> 
> No. And I think you shouldn't. It's not meant to impress. If you want to
> be impressed, get Linux. I am regularly impressed by the amount of
> stupidity displayed by $LINTENDO_VENDOR. Especially compared to, say,
> FreeBSD ports.

What I'm impressed by is something that works.  OpenBSD doesn't work.
Out of all the unixoid machines we have (which aren't too many; just
60-70), the OpenBSD machines are, by far, the most unstable.  They,
like, die.  Quimby has died five or six times during its (what?) two
year existence.  That's five or six times too many.

What this mailing list needs is a good old-fashioned OS flame war, so
let me start it off by mentioning some of the stuff that makes OpenBSD
a pain.

When I first installed it on the first machine, I was really
impressed.  It installed without a hitch, ports was nice -- stuff
worked.  Then I did a "cvs up" in the ports directory, and hell broke
loose.  There's lots of dependencies between ports and the rest of
OpenBSD, so if you want to use new versions of, say, Emacs from ports,
you have to upgrade your make, which requires that you upgrade your
cc, which requires that you upgrade your libraries, which...

(Not to mention that much of the stuff in ports plain don't compile.
And is crappy and older than Methusaleh.)

OpenBSD is even more crappy than Red Hat in that department, as
difficult as that is to believe.  Once you start upgrading, there's no
end.  And just like Red Hat, it's filled with non-explicit
dependencies.

I installed my first Debian half a year ago, and I was expecting
something similar.  I've been very impressed by Debian.  So far, there
has not been one single problem of this nature.  The Debian
maintainers show great taste and restraint.  I've never experienced
any other system that needs so little work to maintain.  Ever.  It
just... works.  That's impressive.

> No. But it's your life. While you're waiting for all the goodies to
> download (KDE integration into quimby would *really* rock), may I humbly
> suggest some additions along the lines of
> <http://socha.net/content/forum.php> or
> <http://socha.net/content/mig.php?pageType=folder&currDir=./Gnus> and
> <http://socha.net/content/links.php>?

Well -- since you're doing those kinds of things, I don't need to.
:-)  Should probably be linked from gnus.org more prominently,
though...

> I mean, it's all nice and dandy to have the best NR/MUA in the world,
> but in order for the Windos lusers to switch, gnus.org should scream
> "it's hard, but it pays". Also, having dozens of half-baked tutorials,
> readmes, and screenshots scattered all over the place is, errr,
> stupid. Make quimby or gnus.org the central pickup point for all that
> stuff, and make it more attractive for people to submit things. Like,
> people love to flaunt their stuff, and having a truckload of screenshots
> with different WMs, OSes and all that is Good(tm).

I'd rather something like that be hosted somewhere else for the time
being -- I may be re-organizing the networking so that Quimby gets its
own security zone.  (It's now in the company DMZ, which means that a
break-in there shouldn't be serious, but there's other machines there,
and trolling through all the logs on the rest of the DMZ machines (in
case of a break-in on Quimby) sounds like work.)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen


  parent reply	other threads:[~2001-04-05  1:06 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 80+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2001-04-04 16:30 Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2001-04-04 17:10 ` Harry Putnam
2001-04-04 18:35 ` Robin S. Socha
2001-04-04 20:35   ` Matthias Wiehl
2001-04-04 20:52     ` Josh Huber
2001-04-05  1:06   ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen [this message]
2001-04-05  1:17     ` Colin Marquardt
2001-04-07  5:58       ` Manoj Srivastava
2001-04-05  5:11     ` Colin Walters
2001-04-05  5:54     ` Robin S. Socha
2001-04-05 13:29       ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2001-04-05 15:10         ` Robin S. Socha
2001-04-05 15:37           ` Oyvind Moll
2001-04-06  0:56             ` Stephen Zander
2001-04-06  0:58             ` Stephen Zander
2001-04-07 23:02             ` Arcady Genkin
2001-04-08  0:19               ` Colin Walters
2001-04-08  1:54                 ` Arcady Genkin
     [not found]               ` <87elv4i3q9.fsf@pooh.honeypot>
2001-04-08  1:52                 ` Arcady Genkin
2001-04-05 15:38           ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2001-04-05 15:41           ` Florian Weimer
2001-04-07  5:49       ` Manoj Srivastava
2001-04-05 17:26     ` Alex Schroeder
2001-04-07  5:55       ` Manoj Srivastava
2001-04-10 16:28     ` Jason R. Mastaler
2001-04-11  5:52       ` Daniel Pittman
2001-04-11  9:23         ` Robin S. Socha
2001-04-11 13:48           ` Gunnar Evermann
2001-04-11 14:12             ` Robin S. Socha
2001-04-11 14:04           ` Colin Walters
2001-04-11 14:58           ` Wes Hardaker
2001-04-11 16:58           ` Harry Putnam
2001-04-11 18:38             ` Robin S. Socha
2001-04-12  3:48               ` Harry Putnam
2001-04-12 21:43                 ` jason-dated-321e0a263c46f421
2001-04-12 22:09                   ` Florian Weimer
2001-04-12 23:02                   ` Kai Großjohann
2001-04-12 23:24                     ` Harry Putnam
2001-04-23 19:33                     ` my 'dated' address (was Re: Quimby Upgrade) Jason R. Mastaler
2001-04-23 20:08                       ` Kai Großjohann
2001-04-23 23:17                         ` Jason R. Mastaler
2001-04-23 23:37                           ` Stainless Steel Rat
2001-04-27 19:34                             ` Robin S. Socha
2001-04-27 19:50                               ` Stainless Steel Rat
2001-04-27 20:02                                 ` Robin S. Socha
2001-04-27 21:07                                   ` Stainless Steel Rat
2001-04-27 21:24                                     ` Paul Jarc
2001-04-27 21:38                                       ` Stainless Steel Rat
2001-04-27 21:51                                         ` Robin S. Socha
2001-04-28  1:05                                         ` Paul Jarc
2001-04-28  2:22                                           ` Stainless Steel Rat
2001-04-28  3:01                                             ` Russ Allbery
2001-04-29 13:26                                             ` Kai Großjohann
2001-04-29 14:13                                               ` Robin S. Socha
2001-04-29 14:53                                                 ` Stainless Steel Rat
2001-04-29 14:18                                               ` Amos Gouaux
2001-04-29 14:55                                               ` Andreas Fuchs
2001-04-29 19:50                                                 ` Jason R. Mastaler
2001-04-29 15:46                                               ` Florian Weimer
2001-04-29 19:54                                                 ` Jason R. Mastaler
2001-04-27 21:24                                     ` Robin S. Socha
2001-04-27 21:48                                       ` Steven E. Harris
2001-04-28  1:28                                     ` Jason R. Mastaler
2001-04-28  1:30                                   ` Jason R. Mastaler
2001-04-24 13:29                           ` Florian Weimer
2001-04-11 21:17             ` Quimby Upgrade Kai Großjohann
2001-04-11 23:20               ` Eric Jacoboni
2001-04-12 14:53               ` Harry Putnam
2001-04-12 15:20                 ` Alan Shutko
2001-04-12 15:58                   ` Kai Großjohann
2001-04-12 18:07                     ` Harry Putnam
2001-04-12 20:36                   ` Florian Weimer
2001-04-12 20:56             ` Arcady Genkin
2001-04-12  4:32           ` Daniel Pittman
2001-04-12 20:22             ` Bjørn Mork
2001-04-13  1:17               ` Daniel Pittman
2001-04-13 19:07                 ` Bjørn Mork
2001-04-16 12:11                   ` Daniel Pittman
2003-09-11 22:47 Quimby upgrade Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2003-09-12  0:49 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

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