From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/13399 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Russ Allbery Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: [John Moreno ] Re: GNKSA and Gnus Date: 04 Jan 1998 02:54:02 -0800 Sender: owner-ding@hpc.uh.edu Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: coloc-standby.netfonds.no X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1035152773 9111 80.91.224.250 (20 Oct 2002 22:26:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 22:26:13 +0000 (UTC) Cc: John Moreno , "Karl-Johan Noren" Return-Path: Original-Received: from xemacs.org (xemacs.cs.uiuc.edu [128.174.252.16]) by altair.xemacs.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA24321 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 03:09:15 -0800 Original-Received: from farabi.hpc.uh.edu (farabi.hpc.uh.edu [129.7.102.2]) by xemacs.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA16102 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 05:09:43 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: from sina.hpc.uh.edu (lists@[10.1.1.1]) by farabi.hpc.uh.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAN15007; Thu, 1 Jan 1998 13:02:17 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: by sina.hpc.uh.edu (TLB v0.09a (1.20 tibbs 1996/10/09 22:03:07)); Sun, 04 Jan 1998 04:54:28 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: from claymore.vcinet.com (claymore.vcinet.com [208.205.12.23]) by sina.hpc.uh.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA20897 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 04:54:21 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: (qmail 27309 invoked by uid 504); 4 Jan 1998 10:54:11 -0000 Original-Received: (qmail 27306 invoked from network); 4 Jan 1998 10:54:11 -0000 Original-Received: from windlord.stanford.edu (36.21.0.44) by claymore.vcinet.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 1998 10:54:10 -0000 Original-Received: (qmail 21923 invoked by uid 500); 4 Jan 1998 10:54:02 -0000 Original-To: ding@gnus.org In-Reply-To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen's message of 04 Jan 1998 12:02:23 +0100 Original-Lines: 53 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Precedence: list X-Majordomo: 1.94.jlt7 Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:13399 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general:13399 Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes: > Here's the latest GNKSA evaluation report. 16c has been fixed, I > think, but 7c will not be fixed. [snip] | [X] FAILS on the following points: | 7c Does not restrict references sensibly | 16c Does not warn when posting quoted text only [snip] | 7) Make sure followups contain valid References | [Y] a) Creates References header with Message-ID of original article | as the last element M | [Y] b) Includes last three References from original M | [N] c) Ensures References will fit in 998 characters M 7c is complete and utter hogwash. News readers have absolutely no business arbitrarily truncating References headers and destroying threading information, and nothing in any news standard requires this. And on top of that, there are absurdities like: | 10e Does not let the user indicate which part to followup to This is nonsensical. In the entire time that I've been reading and posting to Usenet, I've never had a need for any such thing, or even have any coherent idea how one would *do* such a thing. It sounds to me like a broken attempt to encode etiqutte that requires human intervention and forethought (namely, snipping unneeded quoted material) into software. Efforts of that sort are invariably doomed to failure. | 10g Attribution line lacks Message-ID of original article And this is absurd and utterly wasted space. Inclusion of message IDs in attribution lines serves absolutely no purpose other than to drop hash not intended for human consumption at the beginning of human-readable text. This is the purpose served by the References header, not the attribution line. > The GNKSA has evolved from a sensible bare-bones minimum thang into > something, uh, else, and I think the whole think has become pointless. > Gnus will therefore from now on not strive for GNKSA compliance. Thank you. The GNKSA started as a very reasonable and interesting endeavor; it's really a shame that it's turned into something this useless and misguided. -- Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu)