how to save in "cooked" format?

how to save in "cooked" format?

[Sam Steingold]

When I type C-o in Summary (gnus-summary-save-article) the article is
saved in the raw format (i.e., when I open the file later, I see what I
saw with C-u g), e.g.,

From: "=?windows-1251?Q? .....
Subject: =?windows-1251?Q? ...
=CF=F0=E8=E2=E5=F2 Sam!

how do I make sure that the "cooked" format is always used for saving?
(i.e., the content of the file is what I see when I open the article in gnus)
thanks!

-- 
Sam Steingold (http://www.podval.org/~sds) running w2k
<http://www.dhimmi.com/> <http://pmw.org.il/> <http://www.camera.org>
<http://www.iris.org.il> <http://www.openvotingconsortium.org/>
My inferiority complex is the only thing I can be proud of.

Re: how to save in "cooked" format?

[Bernard Adrian]

Sam Steingold <sds@gnu.org> a écrit : 

> When I type C-o in Summary (gnus-summary-save-article) the article is
> saved in the raw format (i.e., when I open the file later, I see what I
> saw with C-u g), e.g.,
>
> From: "=?windows-1251?Q? .....
> Subject: =?windows-1251?Q? ...
> =CF=F0=E8=E2=E5=F2 Sam!
>
> how do I make sure that the "cooked" format is always used for saving?
> (i.e., the content of the file is what I see when I open the article in gnus)
> thanks!

,----[ Saving Articles ]
|
| [...]
| 
| `O o'
| `o'
|      Save the current article using the default article saver
|      (`gnus-summary-save-article').
| 
| `O m'
|      Save the current article in mail format
|      (`gnus-summary-save-article-mail').
| 
| `O r'
|      Save the current article in rmail format
|      (`gnus-summary-save-article-rmail').
| 
| `O f'
|      Save the current article in plain file format
|      (`gnus-summary-save-article-file').
| 
| `O F'
|      Write the current article in plain file format, overwriting any
|      previous file contents (`gnus-summary-write-article-file').
| 
| `O b'
|      Save the current article body in plain file format
|      (`gnus-summary-save-article-body-file').
|
| [...]
`----

HTH
-- 
Bernard Adrian 
http://bernadrian.free.fr

Re: how to save in "cooked" format?

[Sam Steingold]

> * Bernard Adrian <oreanqevna@serr.se> [2005-11-02 23:15:08 +0100]:
>
> Sam Steingold <sds@gnu.org> a écrit : 
>
>> When I type C-o in Summary (gnus-summary-save-article) the article is
>> saved in the raw format (i.e., when I open the file later, I see what I
>> saw with C-u g), e.g.,
>>
>> From: "=?windows-1251?Q? .....
>> Subject: =?windows-1251?Q? ...
>> =CF=F0=E8=E2=E5=F2 Sam!
>>
>> how do I make sure that the "cooked" format is always used for saving?
>> (i.e., the content of the file is what I see when I open the article in gnus)
>> thanks!
>
> ,----[ Saving Articles ]
> |
> | [...]
> | 
> | `O o'
> | `o'
> |      Save the current article using the default article saver
> |      (`gnus-summary-save-article').
> | 
> | `O m'
> |      Save the current article in mail format
> |      (`gnus-summary-save-article-mail').
> | 
> | `O r'
> |      Save the current article in rmail format
> |      (`gnus-summary-save-article-rmail').
> | 
> | `O f'
> |      Save the current article in plain file format
> |      (`gnus-summary-save-article-file').
> | 
> | `O F'
> |      Write the current article in plain file format, overwriting any
> |      previous file contents (`gnus-summary-write-article-file').
> | 
> | `O b'
> |      Save the current article body in plain file format
> |      (`gnus-summary-save-article-body-file').
> |
> | [...]
> `----
>
> HTH

how is this supposed to help?
all these commands run gnus-summary-save-article which saves the raw
characters, not the cooked ones.

-- 
Sam Steingold (http://www.podval.org/~sds) running w2k
<http://www.honestreporting.com> <http://www.openvotingconsortium.org/>
<http://truepeace.org> <http://www.jihadwatch.org/> <http://www.iris.org.il>
Lisp: its not just for geniuses anymore.

Re: how to save in "cooked" format?

[Steve Youngs]

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* Sam Steingold <sds@gnu.org> writes:

  > When I type C-o in Summary (gnus-summary-save-article) the article
  > is saved in the raw format (i.e., when I open the file later, I
  > see what I saw with C-u g), e.g.,

  > From: "=?windows-1251?Q? .....
  > Subject: =?windows-1251?Q? ...
  > =CF=F0=E8=E2=E5=F2 Sam!

  > how do I make sure that the "cooked" format is always used for
  > saving?

You don't.  The "cooking" doesn't alter the file on disk in any way,
it simply applies some "cosmetics" on top of it in the displayed
buffer.  Think of it as looking at the raw text through a magic pair
of sunglasses that hide some parts, enhance others.

  > (i.e., the content of the file is what I see when I open the
  > article in gnus)

_That_ is your answer... open the saved message in Gnus and you'll
have your magic sunglasses on. :-)

-- 
|---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: A94B3003>---|
|                   Te audire no possum.                   |
|             Musa sapientum fixa est in aure.             |
|----------------------------------<steve@youngs.au.com>---|

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 256 bytes --]

Re: how to save in "cooked" format?

[Sam Steingold]

> * Steve Youngs <fgrir@lbhatf.nh.pbz> [2005-11-03 09:50:37 +1000]:
>
> * Sam Steingold <sds@gnu.org> writes:
>
>   > When I type C-o in Summary (gnus-summary-save-article) the article
>   > is saved in the raw format (i.e., when I open the file later, I
>   > see what I saw with C-u g), e.g.,
>
>   > From: "=?windows-1251?Q? .....
>   > Subject: =?windows-1251?Q? ...
>   > =CF=F0=E8=E2=E5=F2 Sam!
>
>   > how do I make sure that the "cooked" format is always used for
>   > saving?
>
> You don't.  The "cooking" doesn't alter the file on disk in any way,
> it simply applies some "cosmetics" on top of it in the displayed
> buffer.  Think of it as looking at the raw text through a magic pair
> of sunglasses that hide some parts, enhance others.
>
>   > (i.e., the content of the file is what I see when I open the
>   > article in gnus)
>
> _That_ is your answer... open the saved message in Gnus and you'll
> have your magic sunglasses on. :-)

this the MS approach: to read a MS Word document, you must use MS Word.
to read a file saved by Gnus, you must use Gnus.
this is just plain wrong.

the characters that my correspondent sent me are not "=CF" and "=F0" but
the Cyrillic characters "П" and "р".
they were encoded in base64 or uuencode or quoted printable or whatever
by his mailer, and were decoded and presented to me by Gnus.
I should be able to save those characters sent to me in a file.
I should not be required to _ever_ see the base64 or uuencode or quoted
printable unless I take a special effort (e.g., look at the " *Original
Article*" buffer).  When saved to disk, the file should contain the
message sent to me by my correspondent, not the way it was encoded by
MTA, MUA or whatever.

C-o RET C-x C-f <Up> RET
should show the same characters displayed in the "*Article*" buffer,
not some junk from the " *Original Article*" buffer (maybe with more
headers, maybe without fontifications, but it should be _human_
_readable_, not just _gnus_ _readable_).

thanks.

-- 
Sam Steingold (http://www.podval.org/~sds) running w2k
<http://www.jihadwatch.org/> <http://www.honestreporting.com>
<http://truepeace.org> <http://www.iris.org.il>
Why do we want intelligent terminals when there are so many stupid users?

Re: how to save in "cooked" format?

[Christoph Conrad]

Hello Sam,

> the characters that my correspondent sent me are not "=CF" and "=F0"
> but the Cyrillic characters "П" and "р".
> [...]

See here:

,----[ http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/chars.html ]
| This document tries to clarify the concepts of character repertoire,
| character code, and character encoding especially in the Internet
| context.
`----

I presume that you have some confusion using them. Maybe also mistook
glyphs and character codes.

Best wishes,
  Christoph

Re: how to save in "cooked" format?

[Sam Steingold]

> * Christoph Conrad <abfcnz@fcnztbhezrg.pbz> [2005-11-03 19:26:01 +0100]:
>
> Hello Sam,
>
>> the characters that my correspondent sent me are not "=CF" and "=F0"
>> but the Cyrillic characters "П" and "р".
>> [...]
>
> See here:
>
> ,----[ http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/chars.html ]
> | This document tries to clarify the concepts of character repertoire,
> | character code, and character encoding especially in the Internet
> | context.
> `----
>
> I presume that you have some confusion using them. Maybe also mistook
> glyphs and character codes.

I don't think I am confused.
To use a (maybe) better terminology, I want gnus to save my messages not
in the encoding in which they arrived (base64, uuencode, quoted
printable) but in my prefered encoding (utf-8, koi-8 &c), or in the
encoding specified for the save file.

-- 
Sam Steingold (http://www.podval.org/~sds) running w2k
<http://www.dhimmi.com/> <http://www.mideasttruth.com/>
<http://www.openvotingconsortium.org/> <http://www.iris.org.il>
A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.

Re: how to save in "cooked" format?

[Reiner Steib]

On Thu, Nov 03 2005, Sam Steingold wrote:

> this the MS approach: to read a MS Word document, you must use MS Word.
> to read a file saved by Gnus, you must use Gnus.
> this is just plain wrong.
[...]
>
> C-o RET C-x C-f <Up> RET
> should show the same characters displayed in the "*Article*" buffer,
> not some junk from the " *Original Article*" buffer (maybe with more
> headers, maybe without fontifications, but it should be _human_
> _readable_, not just _gnus_ _readable_).

Sam, please stop this FUD.  The command `C-o' is documented[1] to save
the article in Unix mail format which is exactly what it does.  Unix
mail format (supplemented with the relevant MIME extensions) isn't a
Gnus-only format (I'm quite sure you a aware of this).  If the article
contains non-ASCII it _has_ to be encoded somehow.

`O f', `O F' or `o' with gnus-default-article-saver set to
gnus-summary-write-to-file or gnus-summary-save-in-file more or less
do what you want.

,----[ (info "(gnus)Saving Articles") ]
| `O f'
|      Save the current article in plain file format
|      (`gnus-summary-save-article-file').
| 
| `O F'
|      Write the current article in plain file format, overwriting any
|      previous file contents (`gnus-summary-write-article-file').
`----

Bye, Reiner.

[1]
,----[ `C-h k C-o' ]
| C-o runs the command gnus-summary-save-article-mail
|    which is an interactive compiled Lisp function in `gnus-sum.el'.
| It is bound to C-o, O m, <menu-bar> <Article> <Output> <Save in Unix
| mail format...>.
| (gnus-summary-save-article-mail &optional arg)
| 
| Append the current article to an mail file.
`----
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: how to save in "cooked" format?

[Sam Steingold]

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> * Reiner Steib <ervarefgrvo+tznar@vznc.pp> [2005-11-03 22:01:47 +0100]:
>
> On Thu, Nov 03 2005, Sam Steingold wrote:
>
>> this the MS approach: to read a MS Word document, you must use MS Word.
>> to read a file saved by Gnus, you must use Gnus.
>> this is just plain wrong.
> [...]
>>
>> C-o RET C-x C-f <Up> RET
>> should show the same characters displayed in the "*Article*" buffer,
>> not some junk from the " *Original Article*" buffer (maybe with more
>> headers, maybe without fontifications, but it should be _human_
>> _readable_, not just _gnus_ _readable_).
>
> Sam, please stop this FUD.

this is not FUD.
First I asked "how do I save articles in plain text".
I was told: "you don't - save as mail and use gnus"
I replied: this is wrong, there should be a way to save in text format.

> The command `C-o' is documented[1] to save the article in Unix mail
> format which is exactly what it does.  Unix mail format (supplemented
> with the relevant MIME extensions) isn't a Gnus-only format (I'm quite
> sure you a aware of this).  If the article contains non-ASCII it _has_
> to be encoded somehow.

fine, so how do I save without this ASCII encoding?!

> `O f', `O F' or `o' with gnus-default-article-saver set to
> gnus-summary-write-to-file or gnus-summary-save-in-file more or less
> do what you want.

thanks. this is nice.
alas, there is just two small problems:
1. the Subject line remains in the "=?windows-1251?Q?=..." format
2. the text is not saved in the correct encoding.  the file to which I
   append starts with
-*- coding: utf-8-unix -*-
   it is not saved correctly:

œô¨¿œô¨àœô¨Øœô¨Òœô¨Õœô¨â Sam!

instead of

Привет Sam!


-- 
Sam Steingold (http://www.podval.org/~sds) running w2k
<http://www.iris.org.il> <http://www.savegushkatif.org>
<http://www.openvotingconsortium.org/> <http://www.dhimmi.com/>
Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out of it alive!

Re: how to save in "cooked" format?

[Steve Youngs]

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* Sam Steingold <sds@gnu.org> writes:

  > First I asked "how do I save articles in plain text".

No you didn't.  You asked how to save in "cooked" form.  I guess I
didn't understand what "cooked" actually meant.


-- 
|---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: A94B3003>---|
|                   Te audire no possum.                   |
|             Musa sapientum fixa est in aure.             |
|----------------------------------<steve@youngs.au.com>---|

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 256 bytes --]

Bug: Incorrect encoding with `O F' or `O f' (was: how to save in "cooked" format?)

[Reiner Steib]

On Thu, Nov 03 2005, Sam Steingold wrote:

>> * Reiner Steib <ervarefgrvo+tznar@vznc.pp> [2005-11-03 22:01:47 +0100]:
>> `O f', `O F' or `o' with gnus-default-article-saver set to
>> gnus-summary-write-to-file or gnus-summary-save-in-file more or less
>> do what you want.
>
> thanks. this is nice.
> alas, there is just two small problems:
> 1. the Subject line remains in the "=?windows-1251?Q?=..." format
> 2. the text is not saved in the correct encoding.  the file to which I
>    append starts with
> -*- coding: utf-8-unix -*-
>    it is not saved correctly:
>
> [...] Sam!
>
> instead of
>
> Привет Sam!

When I tried several days ago, it worked for me for the body.  I
didn't test encoded Subject lines then.  Now, it doesn't work for me
neither for the body or headers.  :-/

Probably `gnus-article-save' and/or `gnus-summary-save-article' need
to be fixed if we want the commands `O f', `O F' and `O b' to save the
decoded content (ask for a coding system if required).  From the
description in the manual [1], I conclude that this should be the
case.  Alas, I don't have time to do this ATM.  Anyone?

Bye, Reiner.

[1]
,----[ (info "(gnus)Saving Articles") ]
| `O f'
|      Save the current article in plain file format
|      (`gnus-summary-save-article-file').
| 
| `O F'
|      Write the current article in plain file format, overwriting any
|      previous file contents (`gnus-summary-write-article-file').
| 
| `O b'
|      Save the current article body in plain file format
|      (`gnus-summary-save-article-body-file').
`----
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/