loading gnus creates *Group* buffer

loading gnus creates *Group* buffer

[Katsumi Yamaoka]

Hi,

When I simply load gnus, the empty *Group* buffer is created.
Is the following change correct?

--- gnus.el~	2004-01-06 08:22:43 +0000
+++ gnus.el	2004-01-07 03:06:18 +0000
@@ -937,10 +937,10 @@
 
 (eval-when (load)
   (let ((command (format "%s" this-command)))
-    (if (and (string-match "gnus" command)
-	     (not (string-match "gnus-other-frame" command)))
-	(gnus-splash)
-      (gnus-get-buffer-create gnus-group-buffer))))
+    (when (string-match "gnus" command)
+      (if (string-match "gnus-other-frame" command)
+	  (gnus-get-buffer-create gnus-group-buffer)
+	(gnus-splash)))))
 
 ;;; Do the rest.
 

Re: loading gnus creates *Group* buffer

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Katsumi Yamaoka <yamaoka@jpl.org> writes:

> When I simply load gnus, the empty *Group* buffer is created.
> Is the following change correct?

Yes, I think so...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: loading gnus creates *Group* buffer

[Katsumi Yamaoka]

>>>>> In <m3znd01mix.fsf@quimbies.gnus.org>
>>>>>	Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote:

> Katsumi Yamaoka <yamaoka@jpl.org> writes:

>> When I simply load gnus, the empty *Group* buffer is created.
>> Is the following change correct?

> Yes, I think so...

Thanks.  Done.

Re: loading gnus creates *Group* buffer

[Steven E. Harris]

Katsumi Yamaoka <yamaoka@jpl.org> writes:

> When I simply load gnus, the empty *Group* buffer is created.

Thanks for fixing that. I've been noticing that one for a long time,
as I usually start up XEmacs with

  $ xemacs --eval '(load-library "gnus")' &

to pick up my non-packaged (and hence non-autoloaded) Gnus
installation. That empty *Group* buffer was always there even before
I'd start Gnus.

-- 
Steven E. Harris

Re: loading gnus creates *Group* buffer

[Steve Youngs]

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|--==> "SEH" == Steven E Harris <seh@panix.com> writes:

  SEH>   $ xemacs --eval '(load-library "gnus")' &

  SEH> to pick up my non-packaged (and hence non-autoloaded) Gnus
  SEH> installation.

Why isn't your Gnus autoloading?  Back in October last year I tweaked
the build so `auto-autoloads.el' & `custom-load.el' are created when
building with XEmacs.  Isn't it working for you?

-- 
|---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: A94B3003>---|
|              Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.               |
|      The proof of the pudding, is under the crust.       |
|------------------------------<sryoungs@bigpond.net.au>---|

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Re: loading gnus creates *Group* buffer

[Steven E. Harris]

Steve Youngs <sryoungs@bigpond.net.au> writes:

> Why isn't your Gnus autoloading?  Back in October last year I tweaked
> the build so `auto-autoloads.el' & `custom-load.el' are created when
> building with XEmacs.  Isn't it working for you?

I use a Gnus built from CVS and stored under ~/usr/local, so I don't
have the Gnus package installed. If I start up XEmacs without loading
Gnus explicitly, it doesn't know the functions `gnus' or
`gnus-no-server.' Should it? Does auto-autoloads.el provide these
functions?

I do add ~/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-packages/lisp/gnus to my
load-path in one of my init files, and that directory does contain
auto-autoloads.el as you intended. Maybe I'm adding this directory to
my load-path too late to work in concert with the autoload mechanism.

-- 
Steven E. Harris

Re: loading gnus creates *Group* buffer

[Steve Youngs]

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|--==> "SEH" == Steven E Harris <seh@panix.com> writes:

  SEH> Steve Youngs <sryoungs@bigpond.net.au> writes:
  >>Why isn't your Gnus autoloading?  Back in October last year I tweaked
  >>the build so `auto-autoloads.el' & `custom-load.el' are created when
  >>building with XEmacs.  Isn't it working for you?

  SEH> I use a Gnus built from CVS and stored under ~/usr/local, so I
  SEH> don't have the Gnus package installed. If I start up XEmacs
  SEH> without loading Gnus explicitly, it doesn't know the functions
  SEH> `gnus' or `gnus-no-server.'

This is because the directory is getting added to the load-path
_after_ XEmacs processes the autoloads.

  SEH> Does auto-autoloads.el provide these functions?

Yes.

  SEH> I do add ~/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-packages/lisp/gnus to my
  SEH> load-path in one of my init files, and that directory does
  SEH> contain auto-autoloads.el as you intended. Maybe I'm adding
  SEH> this directory to my load-path too late to work in concert with
  SEH> the autoload mechanism.

Yes.  And you wouldn't be able to add that directory to your load-path
soon enough because XEmacs processes the autoloads _before_ it loads
your `user-init-file'.  But don't worry, there are a few things that
you could do to work around it...

Solution #1:
-----------

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----

Solution #2:
-----------
When building Gnus...

./configure \
  --infodir=/home/you/.xemacs/site-packages/info \
  --with-lispdir=/home/you/.xemacs/site-packages/lisp/gnus \
  --with-etcdir=/home/you/.xemacs/site-packages/etc/gnus

This will install Gnus under ~/.xemacs/site-packages/ and you won't
have to add anything to your load-path because that directory is one
of the ones that XEmacs searches automatically.
----

Solution #3:
-----------
When building XEmacs...

./configure \
  --package-path=/home/you/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-packages
----

Solution #4:
-----------
Install Gnus to the default location
(/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-packages) by _not_ specifying any
directory related configure options.  You won't have to add any
directories to your load-path with this solution either.

Obviously, this solution requires write access to that directory.
----

HTH.

-- 
|---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: A94B3003>---|
|              Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.               |
|      The proof of the pudding, is under the crust.       |
|------------------------------<sryoungs@bigpond.net.au>---|

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Re: loading gnus creates *Group* buffer

[Istvan Marko]

"Steven E. Harris" <seh@panix.com> writes:

> Steve Youngs <sryoungs@bigpond.net.au> writes:
>
>> Why isn't your Gnus autoloading?  Back in October last year I tweaked
>> the build so `auto-autoloads.el' & `custom-load.el' are created when
>> building with XEmacs.  Isn't it working for you?
>
> I use a Gnus built from CVS and stored under ~/usr/local, so I don't
> have the Gnus package installed. If I start up XEmacs without loading
> Gnus explicitly, it doesn't know the functions `gnus' or
> `gnus-no-server.' Should it? Does auto-autoloads.el provide these
> functions?

(require 'gnus-load) ; setup the gnus autoloads
-- 
	Istvan

Re: loading gnus creates *Group* buffer

[Steven E. Harris]

Istvan Marko <mi-gnus@imarko.dhs.org> writes:

> (require 'gnus-load) ; setup the gnus autoloads

Nope, that doesn't work for the scenario I described.

-- 
Steven E. Harris

Re: loading gnus creates *Group* buffer

[Steve Youngs]

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|--==> "IM" == Istvan Marko <mi-gnus@imarko.dhs.org> writes:

  IM> "Steven E. Harris" <seh@panix.com> writes:
  >>Steve Youngs <sryoungs@bigpond.net.au> writes:
  >>
  >>>Why isn't your Gnus autoloading?  Back in October last year I tweaked
  >>>the build so `auto-autoloads.el' & `custom-load.el' are created when
  >>>building with XEmacs.  Isn't it working for you?
  >>
  >>I use a Gnus built from CVS and stored under ~/usr/local, so I don't
  >>have the Gnus package installed. If I start up XEmacs without loading
  >>Gnus explicitly, it doesn't know the functions `gnus' or
  >>`gnus-no-server.' Should it? Does auto-autoloads.el provide these
  >>functions?

  IM> (require 'gnus-load) ; setup the gnus autoloads

In XEmacs, this shouldn't be needed because of auto-autoloads.el which
is loaded automatically at XEmacs start (providing it is in the
default load-path).

Another thing to consider...

(insert-file-contents (locate-library "gnus-load.el"))

(provide 'gnus-load)

;;; Local Variables:
;;; version-control: never
;;; no-byte-compile: t
;;; no-update-autoloads: t
;;; End:
;;; gnus-load.el ends here

It isn't going to load much. :-)  Yes, I did this intentionally.  The
best way to load Gnus in XEmacs is to have it installed in a default
package path [1], and then do nothing except start XEmacs.


Footnotes: 
[1]  In search order:
        ~/.xemacs/site-packages
        ~/.xemacs/mule-packages
        ~/.xemacs/xemacs-packages
        <emacs-roots>/lib/xemacs/site-packages [2]
        <emacs-roots>/lib/xemacs/mule-packages
        <emacs-roots>/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages

[2]  This is the default if you don't give configure any path options
     when building Gnus.

-- 
|---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: A94B3003>---|
|              Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.               |
|      The proof of the pudding, is under the crust.       |
|------------------------------<sryoungs@bigpond.net.au>---|

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Re: loading gnus creates *Group* buffer

[Steven E. Harris]

Steve Youngs <sryoungs@bigpond.net.au> writes:

> Footnotes: 
> [1]  In search order:
>         ~/.xemacs/site-packages
>         ~/.xemacs/mule-packages
>         ~/.xemacs/xemacs-packages
>         <emacs-roots>/lib/xemacs/site-packages [2]
>         <emacs-roots>/lib/xemacs/mule-packages
>         <emacs-roots>/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages
>
> [2]  This is the default if you don't give configure any path options
>      when building Gnus.

So a home-built Gnus will not overwrite or take up residence in the
same place as a would-be real Gnus package? Would the real Gnus
package wind up in <emacs-roots>/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages?

Just for kicks, I tried symlinking ~/.xemacs/site-packages to
~/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-packages (under which my current Gnus
build sits), but XEmacs did not find Gnus in the lisp/gnus directory
below.

-- 
Steven E. Harris

Re: loading gnus creates *Group* buffer

[Steve Youngs]

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|--==> "SEH" == Steven E Harris <seh@panix.com> writes:

  SEH> So a home-built Gnus will not overwrite or take up residence in
  SEH> the same place as a would-be real Gnus package?

When the home-built Gnus was configured with default settings and the
"would-be real Gnus package" is that which is distributed by
XEmacs.org, then yes, that is correct.

  SEH> Would the real Gnus package wind up in
  SEH> <emacs-roots>/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages?

Providing it is the one distributed by XEmacs.org, yes.

The _only_ packages that should be in (xemacs|mule)-packages/ are the
"official" packages that are distributed by XEmacs.org.  The
site-packages/ directories are for other packages.  That's why the
Gnus from Gnus.org defaults to installing into site-packages/.

  SEH> Just for kicks, I tried symlinking ~/.xemacs/site-packages to
  SEH> ~/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-packages (under which my current
  SEH> Gnus build sits), but XEmacs did not find Gnus in the lisp/gnus
  SEH> directory below.

OK, that's weird.  That should have worked.  I'll have to test that.
I'll get back to you on that.


-- 
|---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: A94B3003>---|
|              Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.               |
|      The proof of the pudding, is under the crust.       |
|------------------------------<sryoungs@bigpond.net.au>---|

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Re: loading gnus creates *Group* buffer

[Kai Grossjohann]

"Steven E. Harris" <seh@panix.com> writes:

> Just for kicks, I tried symlinking ~/.xemacs/site-packages to
> ~/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-packages (under which my current Gnus
> build sits), but XEmacs did not find Gnus in the lisp/gnus directory
> below.

I think that link creates a directory
~/.xemacs/site-packages/gnus/lisp, but XEmacs searches for
~/.xemacs/site-packages/lisp/gnus, instead.

The ./configure arguments that Steve gave put things in the right
directory.

WIBNI there was a convenience arg --as-personal-xemacs-package that
people could use to get the right settings automatically?  Then people
could just download the most recent tarball and have a working
personal installation real quick.  Even if the XEmacs package is
older.

Kai

Re: loading gnus creates *Group* buffer

[Steve Youngs]

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* Kai Grossjohann <kai@emptydomain.de> writes:

  > WIBNI there was a convenience arg --as-personal-xemacs-package
  > that people could use to get the right settings automatically?
  > Then people could just download the most recent tarball and have a
  > working personal installation real quick.  Even if the XEmacs
  > package is older.

So that arg would cause Gnus to install to '~/.xemacs/site-packages'.
That's what you mean, isn't it, Kai?

I'll see if I can put something together later today.

-- 
|---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: A94B3003>---|
|              Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.               |
|      The proof of the pudding, is under the crust.       |
|------------------------------<sryoungs@bigpond.net.au>---|

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Re: loading gnus creates *Group* buffer

[Steven E. Harris]

Kai Grossjohann <kai@emptydomain.de> writes:

> I think that link creates a directory
> ~/.xemacs/site-packages/gnus/lisp, but XEmacs searches for
> ~/.xemacs/site-packages/lisp/gnus, instead.

Well, with that symlink in place, ~/.xemacs/site-packages/lisp/gnus is
there. XEmacs didn't notice it, though. Perhaps it doesn't follow
symlinks when doing the autoload scan.

-- 
Steven E. Harris

Re: loading gnus creates *Group* buffer

[Steve Youngs]

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* Steven E Harris <seh@panix.com> writes:

  > Well, with that symlink in place, ~/.xemacs/site-packages/lisp/gnus
  > is there. XEmacs didn't notice it, though. Perhaps it doesn't follow
  > symlinks when doing the autoload scan.

Seems to work fine here.

(locate-library "gnus")
 => "/home/steve/.xemacs/site-packages/lisp/gnus/gnus.elc"

(featurep 'gnus-autoloads)
 => t

$ file /home/steve/.xemacs/site-packages/lisp/gnus
 => /home/steve/.xemacs/site-packages/lisp/gnus: symbolic link to
       /tmp/steve/gnus

(member "/tmp/steve/gnus/" load-path)
 => nil

(member "/home/steve/.xemacs/site-packages/lisp/gnus/" load-path)
 => ("/home/steve/.xemacs/site-packages/lisp/gnus/" (rest of my
       load-path elided)

I don't understand where yours has gone wrong, Steven.

-- 
|---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: A94B3003>---|
|              Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.               |
|      The proof of the pudding, is under the crust.       |
|------------------------------<sryoungs@bigpond.net.au>---|

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Re: loading gnus creates *Group* buffer

[Steven E. Harris]

Steve Youngs <sryoungs@bigpond.net.au> writes:

> Seems to work fine here.

It looks like you made ~/.xemacs/site-packages/lisp/gnus a symlink
rather than making ~/.xemacs/site-packages a symlink and expecting
XEmacs to find stuff beneath (say, lisp/gnus). In any case, I tried
your symlink approach. Just to make sure we're talking about the same
thing, I have:

  ~/.xemacs/site-packages/lisp/gnus

    symlinked to

  ~/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-packages/lisp/gnus

The latter contains a working Gnus installation built from a recent
CVS snapshot. auto-autoloads.el(c) is there.

When I start up XEmacs as xemacs -q, I get

(locate-library "gnus")
=> nil

(featurep 'gnus-autoloads)
=> nil

$ file /home/seh/.xemacs/site-packages/lisp/gnus
=> bash: file: command not found

Well, anyway, per above,
=> /home/seh/.xemacs/site-packages/lisp/gnus: symbolic link to
   /home/seh/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-packages/lisp/gnus

(member "/home/seh/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-packages/lisp/gnus" load-path)
=> nil

(member "/home/seh/.xemacs/site-packages/lisp/gnus/" load-path)
=> nil

> I don't understand where yours has gone wrong, Steven.

Could this be a Cygwin problem? I've tried it on XEmacs 21.4.13 on
up-to-date Cygwin atop both Windows 2000 and Windows XP, with the same
results in both cases.

Is there a variable (besides the obvious load-path) that I can inspect
to see if XEmacs includes ~/.xemacs/site-packages as part of its
initial path to find these autoload files? When I start with xemacs
-q, the default load-path is (gulp):

("/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-lisp/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/apel/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/bbdb/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/c-support/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/calc/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/calendar/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/cc-mode/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/debug/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/dictionary/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/dired/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ecb/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/edebug/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ediff/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/edit-utils/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/efs/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/eieio/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/elib/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/emerge/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/eshell/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/eterm/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/eudc/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/footnote/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/fsf-compat/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/hm--html-menus/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/igrep/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ilisp/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ispell/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/mail-lib/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/mmm-mode/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/net-utils/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/os-utils/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/pc/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/pcl-cvs/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/pcomplete/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/perl-modes/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/prog-modes/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ps-print/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/psgml/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/psgml-dtds/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/python-modes/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/reftex/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ruby-modes/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sasl/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/scheme/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/semantic/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sgml/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sh-script/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sounds-wav/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/speedbar/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/texinfo/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/text-modes/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/textools/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/time/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/tramp/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/vc/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/view-process/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/viper/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/w3/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/x-symbol/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xemacs-base/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xemacs-devel/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/zenirc/"
 "/usr/local/lib/xemacs-21.4.13/lisp/")

Note that there's nothing under my home directory.

-- 
Steven E. Harris

Re: loading gnus creates *Group* buffer

[Steve Youngs]

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* Steven E Harris <seh@panix.com> writes:

  > Steve Youngs <sryoungs@bigpond.net.au> writes:
  >> Seems to work fine here.

  > It looks like you made ~/.xemacs/site-packages/lisp/gnus a symlink
  > rather than making ~/.xemacs/site-packages a symlink 

Only because I was too lazy to create the proper hierarchy at the
other end of the link.  It wouldn't make any difference, though.

  > Just to make sure we're talking about the same thing, I have:

  >   ~/.xemacs/site-packages/lisp/gnus

  >     symlinked to

  >   ~/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-packages/lisp/gnus

  > The latter contains a working Gnus installation built from a recent
  > CVS snapshot. auto-autoloads.el(c) is there.

  > When I start up XEmacs as xemacs -q, I get

For reasons that I'm not sure of, when you start XEmacs like that you
won't get the package directories under $HOME/.xemacs in your
load-path. 

Try again, loading XEmacs normally.

  > $ file /home/seh/.xemacs/site-packages/lisp/gnus
  > => bash: file: command not found

That's Cygwin for ya.

  > Could this be a Cygwin problem? 

Oh, how I'd love to say "yes" here, alas, I honestly don't know
because I have never had anything to do with Cygwin.  It sits on top
of Windoze, so it is bound to be poorly designed and bug-ridden. :-)

  > Is there a variable (besides the obvious load-path) that I can
  > inspect to see if XEmacs includes ~/.xemacs/site-packages as part
  > of its initial path to find these autoload files?

 $ xemacs -debug-paths -kill > ~/xemacs-full-paths.out 2>&1

Whatever paths that XEmacs knows about on a normal start up will be in
~/xemacs-full-paths.out.

 $ xemacs -q -debug-paths -kill > ~/xemacs-q-paths.out 2>&1

Will tell you the paths that XEmacs knows about when started with
'-q'. 

OK, now I have to ask the question... Why don't you just install Gnus
to the default location?  Or configure Gnus to install under
~/.xemacs/site-packages ?

-- 
|---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: A94B3003>---|
|              Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.               |
|      The proof of the pudding, is under the crust.       |
|------------------------------<sryoungs@bigpond.net.au>---|

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 256 bytes --]

Re: loading gnus creates *Group* buffer

[Steven E. Harris]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1640 bytes --]

Steve Youngs <sryoungs@bigpond.net.au> writes:

> For reasons that I'm not sure of, when you start XEmacs like that
> you won't get the package directories under $HOME/.xemacs in your
> load-path.
>
> Try again, loading XEmacs normally.

Same result.

> That's Cygwin for ya.

Maybe 'file' is available in some package that I don't have
installed.

>  $ xemacs -debug-paths -kill > ~/xemacs-full-paths.out 2>&1
>
> Whatever paths that XEmacs knows about on a normal start up will be in
> ~/xemacs-full-paths.out.
>
>  $ xemacs -q -debug-paths -kill > ~/xemacs-q-paths.out 2>&1
>
> Will tell you the paths that XEmacs knows about when started with
> '-q'. 

See attached below. They're both the same, and neither makes mention
of anything under ~/.xemacs.

> Why don't you just install Gnus to the default location?

For years, I was running an XEmacs in a location that I didn't have
write permission to, so I got in the habit of keeping my local
packages (including Gnus CVS builds) under my home directory. I chose
~/usr/local/ as the root to feed to the Gnus 'configure' script and it
came up with ~/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-packages as the root for
Gnus.

> Or configure Gnus to install under ~/.xemacs/site-packages ?

Well, now I'd consider doing that, but I jumped in on this thread
because I didn't know about these special directories under ~/.xemacs
that would enable the autoload behavior. You explained how they're
supposed to work, and I've been trying to convince myself (and you in
the process) that these directories are not inspected with my current
Cygwin XEmacs 21.4.13. It's a good idea. I just wished it worked here.


[-- Attachment #2: xemacs-q-paths.out --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 6234 bytes --]

      4 [unknown (0xBC8)] xemacs-21.4.13 7024 fhandler_console::fixup_after_exec: error opening input console handle after exec, errno 13, Win32 error 5
  40463 [unknown (0xBC8)] xemacs-21.4.13 7024 fhandler_console::fixup_after_exec: error opening input console handle after exec, errno 13, Win32 error 5
emacs-roots:
("/usr/local/")
configure-package-path:
nil
early-packages and early-package-load-path:
nil
nil
late-packages and late-package-load-path:
("/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/")
("/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/apel/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/bbdb/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/c-support/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/calc/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/calendar/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/cc-mode/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/clearcase/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/debug/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/dictionary/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/dired/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/docbookide/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ecb/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/edebug/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ediff/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/edit-utils/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/efs/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/eieio/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/elib/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/emerge/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/eshell/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/eterm/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/eudc/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/footnote/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/frame-icon/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/fsf-compat/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/hm--html-menus/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/igrep/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ilisp/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ispell/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/mail-lib/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/mailcrypt/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/mmm-mode/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/net-utils/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/os-utils/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/pc/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/pcl-cvs/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/pcomplete/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/perl-modes/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/prog-modes/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ps-print/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/psgml/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/psgml-dtds/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/python-modes/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/reftex/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/rmail/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sasl/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/scheme/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/semantic/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sgml/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sh-script/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sounds-wav/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/speedbar/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/texinfo/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/text-modes/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/textools/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/time/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/tramp/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/vc/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/view-process/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/viper/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/w3/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/x-symbol/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xemacs-base/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xemacs-devel/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/zenirc/")
last-packages and last-package-load-path:
nil
nil
lisp-directory:
"/usr/local/lib/xemacs-21.4.13/lisp/"
site-directory:
"/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-lisp/"
Info-directory-list:
("/usr/local/lib/xemacs-21.4.13/info/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/info/" "/usr/info" "/usr/share/info")
exec-directory:
/usr/local/lib/xemacs-21.4.13/i686-pc-cygwin/
exec-path:
("/usr/local/bin/" "/usr/bin/" "/bin/" "/mnt/c/PROGRA~1/RATIONAL/RATION~1/NUTCROOT/bin/" "/mnt/c/PROGRA~1/RATIONAL/RATION~1/NUTCROOT/bin/x11/" "/mnt/c/PROGRA~1/RATIONAL/RATION~1/NUTCROOT/mksnt/" "/mnt/c/Program Files/Compaq/Compaq Management Agents/Dmi/Win32/Bin/" "/mnt/c/WINNT/system32/" "/mnt/c/WINNT/" "/mnt/c/WINNT/System32/Wbem/" "/mnt/c/Program Files/Rational/common/" "/mnt/c/Program Files/Rational/Rational Test/" "/mnt/c/Program Files/Rational/ClearCase/bin/" "/mnt/c/Program Files/Executive Software/Diskeeper/" "/mnt/c/Program Files/SecureCRT/" "/home/sharr/usr/local/bin/" "/usr/local/bin/i686-pc-cygwin/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs-21.4.13/i686-pc-cygwin/")
doc-directory:
"/usr/local/lib/xemacs-21.4.13/i686-pc-cygwin/"
data-directory:
"/usr/local/lib/xemacs-21.4.13/etc/"
data-directory-list:
("/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/auctex/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/bbdb/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/e/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/ediff/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/frame-icon/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/hm--html-menus/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/ilisp/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/ps-print/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/psgml/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/psgml-dtds/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/reftex/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/sounds/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/time/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/w3/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/x-symbol/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/zenirc/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs-21.4.13/etc/")

[-- Attachment #3: xemacs-full-paths.out --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 6236 bytes --]

      3 [unknown (0x12D8)] xemacs-21.4.13 8888 fhandler_console::fixup_after_exec: error opening input console handle after exec, errno 13, Win32 error 5
  12874 [unknown (0x12D8)] xemacs-21.4.13 8888 fhandler_console::fixup_after_exec: error opening input console handle after exec, errno 13, Win32 error 5
emacs-roots:
("/usr/local/")
configure-package-path:
nil
early-packages and early-package-load-path:
nil
nil
late-packages and late-package-load-path:
("/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/")
("/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/apel/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/auctex/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/bbdb/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/c-support/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/calc/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/calendar/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/cc-mode/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/clearcase/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/debug/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/dictionary/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/dired/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/docbookide/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ecb/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/edebug/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ediff/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/edit-utils/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/efs/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/eieio/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/elib/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/emerge/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/eshell/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/eterm/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/eudc/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/footnote/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/frame-icon/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/fsf-compat/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/hm--html-menus/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/igrep/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ilisp/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ispell/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/mail-lib/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/mailcrypt/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/mmm-mode/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/net-utils/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/os-utils/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/pc/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/pcl-cvs/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/pcomplete/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/perl-modes/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/prog-modes/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/ps-print/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/psgml/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/psgml-dtds/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/python-modes/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/reftex/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/rmail/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sasl/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/scheme/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/semantic/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sgml/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sh-script/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/sounds-wav/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/speedbar/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/texinfo/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/text-modes/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/textools/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/time/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/tramp/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/vc/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/view-process/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/viper/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/w3/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/x-symbol/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xemacs-base/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/xemacs-devel/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/lisp/zenirc/")
last-packages and last-package-load-path:
nil
nil
lisp-directory:
"/usr/local/lib/xemacs-21.4.13/lisp/"
site-directory:
"/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-lisp/"
Info-directory-list:
("/usr/local/lib/xemacs-21.4.13/info/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/info/" "/usr/info" "/usr/share/info")
exec-directory:
/usr/local/lib/xemacs-21.4.13/i686-pc-cygwin/
exec-path:
("/usr/local/bin/" "/usr/bin/" "/bin/" "/mnt/c/PROGRA~1/RATIONAL/RATION~1/NUTCROOT/bin/" "/mnt/c/PROGRA~1/RATIONAL/RATION~1/NUTCROOT/bin/x11/" "/mnt/c/PROGRA~1/RATIONAL/RATION~1/NUTCROOT/mksnt/" "/mnt/c/Program Files/Compaq/Compaq Management Agents/Dmi/Win32/Bin/" "/mnt/c/WINNT/system32/" "/mnt/c/WINNT/" "/mnt/c/WINNT/System32/Wbem/" "/mnt/c/Program Files/Rational/common/" "/mnt/c/Program Files/Rational/Rational Test/" "/mnt/c/Program Files/Rational/ClearCase/bin/" "/mnt/c/Program Files/Executive Software/Diskeeper/" "/mnt/c/Program Files/SecureCRT/" "/home/sharr/usr/local/bin/" "/usr/local/bin/i686-pc-cygwin/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs-21.4.13/i686-pc-cygwin/")
doc-directory:
"/usr/local/lib/xemacs-21.4.13/i686-pc-cygwin/"
data-directory:
"/usr/local/lib/xemacs-21.4.13/etc/"
data-directory-list:
("/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/auctex/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/bbdb/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/e/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/ediff/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/frame-icon/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/hm--html-menus/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/ilisp/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/ps-print/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/psgml/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/psgml-dtds/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/reftex/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/sounds/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/time/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/w3/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/x-symbol/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/zenirc/" "/usr/local/lib/xemacs-21.4.13/etc/")

[-- Attachment #4: Type: text/plain, Size: 22 bytes --]


-- 
Steven E. Harris

Re: loading gnus creates *Group* buffer

[Steve Youngs]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1904 bytes --]

* Steven E Harris <seh@panix.com> writes:

  > Steve Youngs <sryoungs@bigpond.net.au> writes:
  >> Why don't you just install Gnus to the default location?

  > For years, I was running an XEmacs in a location that I didn't have
  > write permission to, so I got in the habit of keeping my local
  > packages (including Gnus CVS builds) under my home directory. I chose
  > ~/usr/local/ as the root to feed to the Gnus 'configure' script and it
  > came up with ~/usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-packages as the root for
  > Gnus.

OK, that's fair enough.

  >> Or configure Gnus to install under ~/.xemacs/site-packages ?

  > Well, now I'd consider doing that, but I jumped in on this thread
  > because I didn't know about these special directories under ~/.xemacs
  > that would enable the autoload behavior. You explained how they're
  > supposed to work, and I've been trying to convince myself (and you in
  > the process) that these directories are not inspected with my current
  > Cygwin XEmacs 21.4.13. It's a good idea. I just wished it worked here.

I'm at a loss.  It should _just work_.  I'll see if I can find the
answer for you, but in the meantime just use this...

(let* ((gnusdir (file-name-as-directory
		 (expand-file-name 
		  "usr/local/lib/xemacs/site-packages/lisp/gnus"
		  (getenv "HOME"))))
       (autos (expand-file-name "auto-autoloads.elc" gnusdir))
       (customs (expand-file-name "custom-load.elc" gnusdir)))
  (setq load-path (push gnusdir load-path))
  (when (file-exists-p autos)
    (load-file autos))
  (when (file-exists-p customs)
    (load-file customs)))

And keep installing Gnus in the way/place you are used to.

-- 
|---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: A94B3003>---|
|              Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.               |
|      The proof of the pudding, is under the crust.       |
|------------------------------<sryoungs@bigpond.net.au>---|

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