From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/64549 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Didier Verna Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: Mixing whitespace and topical changes Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 09:17:17 +0200 Organization: The Gnus Project Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1176967146 15750 80.91.229.12 (19 Apr 2007 07:19:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 07:19:06 +0000 (UTC) To: ding@gnus.org Original-X-From: ding-owner+M13060@lists.math.uh.edu Thu Apr 19 09:19:00 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ding-account@gmane.org Original-Received: from util0.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.18]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HeQux-0002Hr-8b for ding-account@gmane.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 09:18:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.math.uh.edu) by util0.math.uh.edu with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HeQu0-0001nx-5x; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 02:18:00 -0500 Original-Received: from mx2.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.33]) by util0.math.uh.edu with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HeQtw-0001nY-Bp for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 02:17:56 -0500 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]) by mx2.math.uh.edu with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HeQtp-0001VG-UZ for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 02:17:56 -0500 Original-Received: from 2.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net ([62.39.139.2] helo=kualalumpur.lrde.epita.fr) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1HeQto-0006YH-00 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 09:17:48 +0200 Original-Received: from uzeb.lrde.epita.fr ([192.168.101.53]) by kualalumpur.lrde.epita.fr with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HeQtK-0003ap-1J for ding@gnus.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 09:17:18 +0200 Original-Received: by uzeb.lrde.epita.fr (Postfix, from userid 17030) id CA59E5E239; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 09:17:17 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Reiner Steib's message of "Wed\, 18 Apr 2007 22\:55\:21 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) XEmacs/21.4.20 (linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAACVBMVEVXQjGUcF29oZLSJd9v AAAACXBIWXMAAAsSAAALEgHS3X78AAABh0lEQVQozz3QwY6bMBAG4HEESOlpIzFR1fte+hRQLXsG yYNkTj2so+KnYA+5Z6UYlZxSKSDsp+zYrNYnf/yj8TBgO8/HUQ3QwUcfMAccwaoNMuDXErBoxh5e TwETEUAGZGIDu+H0heNnmQ9lu88yb1UhngHHeCcqxAhtDOqUimzcyu6yVHWmt0RQa+X+DT44mXez VnK/wsi4vAnsZXoBy7O1iUBN2W8YeGr5A1t9ze4wcAt7pHaSuwsD+UllHO0GuEBqfNPezFUIWBM0 N+r8LHnQFdEszptJwjfwUPowkQuJT7ks4Mp/6t/JTHE/IXkPc998z+sBP/XG685PEWf90zlSYSPg R/LL7IhiMjuzzBO1dQQ3IPpCtzSYY4Sn7lE0gjYcXmVVIeURL5CS7BEizoAdadpg80S1Sm74R+Wp 0zmkAY/qpXLzExwC1kNDIxVb4suG7B8AihieeO8AuQi458gziyQmjxTUXxAyYhXIzyTcg3EWZGvA JmAQouSviAxXfC8qVYBMi/+MpNUerwhC1QAAACZ6VFh0Q29tbWVudAAAeNpzLkpNLElNUSjPLMlQ CMlIVXD39A0AAFLnByOQy2VwAAAAGnpUWHRKUEVHLUNvbG9yc3BhY2UAAHjaMwIAADMAMxEWfmMA AAAnelRYdEpQRUctU2FtcGxpbmctZmFjdG9ycwAAeNozqjDSMawwBGEAEYMC6WQPG2IAAAAASUVO RK5CYII= X-Face: "{Mlr>7Lx]0mPS4YtotD)8ZeN"hxr=qV(zI2y/^4^~d^;672Rnq}0Bp~HghbH@&lUK[4 *-$RP!LKyAJ'f[A~v2Bd?lx"wu)GHK"-:LYlN Precedence: bulk Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:64549 Archived-At: Reiner Steib wrote: >> Now, this part really upsets me :-( [...]. Gnus is an >> independant project,=20 > > If Gnus wasn't a part of Emacs, we would not have to require a > copyright assignment for non-trivial contributions (you also signed > it, so you should be aware of it). Of course. Although I can't remember exactly whether I signed for a GNU software, or for GNU Emacs specifically. But in any case, you can't deny that Gnus a somewhat "special" part of GNU Emacs for the reasons I stated. I don't hack GNU Emacs[1], and AFAICT, most GNU Emacs developpers don't hack Gnus. Yet, you explained that we should adhere to their coding style. >>> Beside yourself, nobody argued in favor of those "by-the-way >>> whitespace changes". >> >> So what ? When I think the majority is wrong, I try to convince >> the majority. Wouldn't you ? > > Note that this was a reply to... >>>> Note that I will accept whatever decision the majority adopts > ... so I tried to point out that the majority (at least of those who > participated in the previous discussions) doesn't agree. > > [ You may even replace Emacs developers with Gnus developers in the > paragraph above that upset you. ] That's not necessarily true BTW, I think Yamaoka San was not as strongly opposed as you are to my point of view. But let me explain again: I was initially trying to convince the Gnus committers. If I had failed, that would have been fine with me. But then, you pointed out that it was not a matter of convincing the Gnus Team, but the whole GNU Emacs team, and that, for the reason that we should adhere to their coding style (which I consider illegitimate).=20 That's what upset me. Only that. > _Not introducing_ trailing whitespace is different to "cleanup" > leading spaces to tabs. Hmmm. So we actually disagree on the kinds of whitespace cleanup that should be authorized ? What about spaces followed by tabs ? > If we'd agree that every Gnus developer should follows your proposal: > How do you propose to ensure this? By providing 4 lines of code for their .emacs. >> OK, you made an illegitimate yet strong point.=20 > > Making synchronization between v5-10 and the trunk as simple as > possible is illegitimate? I've clarified what I consider illegitimate a few paragraphs above. > But I don't think to accuse me of writing bullshit is good style. There was nothing personal in what I said. You stated a fact that upset me. It is the *fact* that you stated which upset me, not the fact that you *stated* it. Err, do you see what I mean ? :-) Footnotes:=20 [1] Actually, I did once: I rewrote rect.el for both Emacsen and then they didn't report back the changes they made to it afterwards :-/ --=20 Read the Jazz Blog !! http://jazzblog.didierverna.com Didier Verna, didier@lrde.epita.fr, http://www.lrde.epita.fr/~didier EPITA / LRDE, 14-16 rue Voltaire Tel.+33 (1) 44 08 01 85 94276 Le Kremlin-Bic=EAtre, France Fax.+33 (1) 53 14 59 22 didier@xemac= s.org