From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/64543 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Didier Verna Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: Mixing whitespace and topical changes Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:42:37 +0200 Organization: The Gnus Project Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1176886723 19480 80.91.229.12 (18 Apr 2007 08:58:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:58:43 +0000 (UTC) To: ding@gnus.org Original-X-From: ding-owner+M13054@lists.math.uh.edu Wed Apr 18 10:58:35 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ding-account@gmane.org Original-Received: from util0.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.18]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1He5zm-000090-Be for ding-account@gmane.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:58:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.math.uh.edu) by util0.math.uh.edu with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1He5zh-0003Zx-PA; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 03:58:29 -0500 Original-Received: from mx2.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.33]) by util0.math.uh.edu with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1He5zg-0003ZU-0c for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 03:58:28 -0500 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]) by mx2.math.uh.edu with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1He5zZ-0001oJ-Hs for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 03:58:27 -0500 Original-Received: from 2.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net ([62.39.139.2] helo=kualalumpur.lrde.epita.fr) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1He5zY-00026U-00 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:58:20 +0200 Original-Received: from uzeb.lrde.epita.fr ([192.168.101.53]) by kualalumpur.lrde.epita.fr with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1He5z4-0001wO-Gw for ding@gnus.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:57:50 +0200 Original-Received: by uzeb.lrde.epita.fr (Postfix, from userid 17030) id 712F75E23B; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:42:37 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Reiner Steib's message of "Tue\, 17 Apr 2007 19\:25\:32 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) XEmacs/21.4.20 (linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAADFBMVEWdYDnt7OnNsZybbkyI gFCpAAAACXBIWXMAAAsSAAALEgHS3X78AAABYElEQVQoz43PMUvDQBQH8D+9RdvQfIViEcRBi6MK foo7qB0lHVqofoSgmxadIhQXF0VQTFdpJUEXwUI3wa2LILXUA5dKQp6XtLSHIPgfjvvlXe69A9cC oYP/D87fx6zfFaFBXE5QVMuuqVX2zMUZPJqfgSjLK41J04genVY/rjhcRL55dvDhjAEiYkvLTvIe UNi1jcI3eJEL2Q239qESD0DdcPMIfoIySUDGaPBiiQgMyTGLV8nHOBYXLgEGMjGs03sPZsdodwAh tu8UfHPlqQAuam/eHEO2rS60rNqrazD2MMA7rHLrxU1JaUuzrv4JnB0m/fXc6ghOya1JJpHuH/dQ rA6/kC+ArbEBLty26rZB9kkqD36b9A/sawpQ8bx4ss+bKwMIqO+r6QMzTPsYJg8BUof9cwRyPD3z 3Cbi+cdRX6MpVBZsDc8ZDaOChlxTQ2SHM9Sz2nWtBQ0Zrzfd/wDE/sZQMiBmxAAAAHx6VFh0Q29t bWVudAAAeNpzLkpNLElNUSjPLMlQCMlIVXD39A3g4nIOcnUM8Q+yUogIUwhLLSrOzM9TMNYzNEhU UAhKLbNSMDTSN7LUtzRR0Ajwc1coSCxJzlAw1DPSVFAILE3MySypVLBVMDfVUQjOzc8vycjMSwfy DbgA1zoe/IQDM7QAAAAaelRYdEpQRUctQ29sb3JzcGFjZQAAeNozAgAAMwAzERZ+YwAAACd6VFh0 SlBFRy1TYW1wbGluZy1mYWN0b3JzAAB42jOqMNIxrDAEYQARgwLpZA8bYgAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Face: &{^WwqkaSBY5RAr.{rb#^HtK`v;,A@-zdO&QIqOM*nn!zh3@~Y\RJZT.l{irVk=0tS"2YI- WnL[!%S3ZphN5R2j}E-Z=HH;^j=~G-,V#c8m|hl{k=j'04X'1J;W=`PfkX^q,6Pr:hNXFs(83N!ImF 3x@p4Ye_BfUX5?d\RRbxPW Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAACVBMVEWaYz3n4t2edE7r2dn0 AAAACXBIWXMAAAsSAAALEgHS3X78AAABIUlEQVQoz63PwUrDQBAG4HGh0O5dD56CUGn3LTz6AAmY k4gWu08RFwTNUUxJ97QWusz+T+lumjR5gM7tyz+Z/KF8MnQhhCnUckSJ7xHBPpxR6KM4o2SMeOGb EftXtToDTvw2PQrmOz3gkTOhBkjOyA0AM7ljwnXuf0xF6LCwNcFBfyZIWj/joLepKRFJB7NF6EH2 Q+s+IcLsia96OL0sV+IE4dCU8z7JHPKCusRJzEXEOsEsjJlFdN34voLY7g9N/pbT+23VShbwKclQ A1qibtI1L/9s2CH9EM33cSVm6L5jDSsbWsSJBUyr3K61gI8FvpyqPGcbv0l1KuXiitI2FWVJPu4j 0Gmy+Kz2NIyQ6dowyo8QAXZMECZrmLwjpojH8A8a4bl9X4RZkAAAAHx6VFh0Q29tbWVudAAAeNpz LkpNLElNUSjPLMlQCMlIVXD39A3g4nIOcnUM8Q+yUogIUwhLLSrOzM9TMNYzNEhUUAhKLbNSMDTS N7LUtzRR0Ajwc1coSCxJzlAw1DPSVFAILE3MySypVLBVMDfVUQjOzc8vycjMSwfyDbgA1zoe/IQD M7QAAAAaelRYdEpQRUctQ29sb3JzcGFjZQAAeNozAgAAMwAzERZ+YwAAACd6VFh0SlBFRy1TYW1w bGluZy1mYWN0b3JzAAB42jOqMNIxrDAEYQARgwLpZA8bYgAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Face: *5PeAGGnN6gmDX%hrU(lLb6c8'Uky;[b9D0oQc`$,`sqapJM%3pc`8iv.rxjP?dqTWt[ Precedence: bulk Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:64543 Archived-At: Reiner Steib wrote: > - Synchronizing also happens between the trunk and v5-10 [...] > The fact that doing mass whitespace change (and even mixing them > with topical changes) makes syncing harder, already is a > k.o. argument against switching to such a policy. > > - Unrelated whitespace changes make many CVS operations less useful > (diff, annotate, ...). [...] You're missing the point: you're arguing that mixing whitespace and topical changes together is a bad thing. Of course. What I'm arguing is that whitespace cleanness is a good thing, and that if all committers took care of it locally, the files would always be whitespace-clean, and would never see the problem again.[1] > - Automatic whitespace removal may even lead to wrong code... Again, not very convincing. Once on approx. 135000 lines of code... > - As Gnus is part of Emacs we should follow the same policies whenever > possible. > > * It's consensus among Emacs developers _not_ to do mass whitespace > removal without prior coordination. > > * It's consensus among Emacs developers to use the Emacs defaults > for editing Emacs files (e.g. fill-column, tab-width, coding > style, ...). `whitespace-cleanup' in `write-file-hooks' is not > the default in Emacs. Now, this part really upsets me :-( (this has nothing to do with the old XEmacs / GNU Emacs war in which I never participated, nore wanted to BTW). Gnus is an independant project, maintained in an independant CVS archive, by independant developpers. I don't give a sh*t about how the GNU Emacs guys do their job and I shouldn't have to. This is almost as hilarious as the "backend back-end back end or was it BackEnd" troll. > Didier, in the past few years, I've never seen any other Gnus > developer committing mixed changes except you. Sure, I was the only one to properly whitespace-clean my files after editing. > Beside yourself, nobody argued in favor of those "by-the-way > whitespace changes". So what ? When I think the majority is wrong, I try to convince the majority. Wouldn't you ? > If also Larsi has said "Don't use whitespace.el or equivalent when > changing Gnus." (as Katsumi mentioned), isn't this sufficient to > convince you? No. > I agree that we should _not introduce_ trailing whitespace. Oh, I see. Now we're talking. And how do you propose to ensure that this is the case ? I propose a whitespace-cleanup in write-file-hooks; that way you don't have to think about it. Does that ring a bell ? > You are kind of arguing that we should change our policy because of a > bug/missing feature in `whitespace.el'. Again, you're missing the point. My point is that files should *always* be whitespace-clean. whitespace.el is just a tool. I don't care about the tool. OK, you made an illegitimate yet strong point. I'm obviously not going to make the GNU Emacs guys change their way, and I don't want to make anybody's job harder, so I'll fix my setup. Congrats though. You've just ruined my day with that "Gnus is part of Emacs" bullshit. :-( Footnotes:=20 [1] Please don't reply that if I stopped nuking whitespaces, there would be no more problem either :-)=20 --=20 Read the Jazz Blog !! http://jazzblog.didierverna.com Didier Verna, didier@lrde.epita.fr, http://www.lrde.epita.fr/~didier EPITA / LRDE, 14-16 rue Voltaire Tel.+33 (1) 44 08 01 85 94276 Le Kremlin-Bic=EAtre, France Fax.+33 (1) 53 14 59 22 didier@xemac= s.org