deleting messages in nndoc?

deleting messages in nndoc?

[Paul Stodghill]

Has anyone put together a patch to GNUS that allows messages to be deleted
from nndoc files?

The reason I ask is that I have a bunch of mbox files scattered all over
the place that I would like to maintain. Converting to nnml or any other
backend that requires the files to be places in nnXXX-directory is not an
option. nndoc allows me to read the files in place, but I would really like
to manipulate the files as well.

Thanks for your help.
-- 
Paul Stodghill <stodghil@cs.cornell.edu>
http://www.cs.cornell.edu/home/stodghil/home.html

Re: deleting messages in nndoc?

[Paul Stodghill]

    Me> The reason I ask is that I have a bunch of mbox files scattered all
    Me> over the place that I would like to maintain.

    SSR> So, use nnmbox.

Alright, I must be dense. Help me out here:

I thought that nnmbox was used to save multiple "groups" in a single mbox
file, using the X-Gnus-Newsgroup header to indicate which article was in
which group.

Looking at the code and the documentation, I don't see how it can be used
to browse an arbitrary mbox file like the nndoc backend can.

Thanks in advance.
-- 
Paul Stodghill <stodghil@cs.cornell.edu>
http://www.cs.cornell.edu/home/stodghil/home.html

Re: deleting messages in nndoc?

[Aharon Schkolnik]

On the same topic (I think):

Gnus can save articles in babyl format (gnus-summary-save-in-rmail) or
in mbox format (gnus-summary-save-in-mail). I've been using babyl, and
I then create a nndoc group from the file generated. My problem is
that I  can not delete messages from that nndoc group. I know that
rmail can delete from babyl files, so why can't Gnus. Would I have any
better luck if I switched to mbox format ?

>>>>> "Paul" == Paul Stodghill <stodghil@CS.Cornell.EDU> writes:

    Paul> Has anyone put together a patch to GNUS that allows messages
    Paul> to be deleted from nndoc files?

    Paul> The reason I ask is that I have a bunch of mbox files
    Paul> scattered all over the place that I would like to
    Paul> maintain. Converting to nnml or any other backend that
    Paul> requires the files to be places in nnXXX-directory is not an
    Paul> option. nndoc allows me to read the files in place, but I
    Paul> would really like to manipulate the files as well.

    Paul> Thanks for your help.  -- Paul Stodghill
    Paul> <stodghil@cs.cornell.edu>
    Paul> http://www.cs.cornell.edu/home/stodghil/home.html


-- 
  The day is short, and the work is great,     |   Aharon Schkolnik
  and the laborers are lazy, and the reward    |   Aharon@Health.Gov.IL
  is great, and the Master of the house is     |
  impatient. - Ethics Of The Fathers Ch. 2     |

Re: deleting messages in nndoc?

[Justin Sheehy]

Aharon Schkolnik <aharon@health.gov.il> writes:

> Gnus can save articles in babyl format (gnus-summary-save-in-rmail) or
> in mbox format (gnus-summary-save-in-mail). I've been using babyl, and
> I then create a nndoc group from the file generated. My problem is
> that I  can not delete messages from that nndoc group. I know that
> rmail can delete from babyl files, so why can't Gnus. Would I have any
> better luck if I switched to mbox format ?

Um, why don't you just create an nnbabyl group?

-- 
Justin Sheehy

In a cloud bones of steel.
  

Re: deleting messages in nndoc?

[Aharon Schkolnik]

>>>>> "Justin" == Justin Sheehy <justin@linus.mitre.org> writes:

    Justin> Aharon Schkolnik <aharon@health.gov.il> writes:
    >> Gnus can save articles in babyl format
    >> (gnus-summary-save-in-rmail) or in mbox format
    >> (gnus-summary-save-in-mail). I've been using babyl, and I then
    >> create a nndoc group from the file generated. My problem is
    >> that I can not delete messages from that nndoc group. I know
    >> that rmail can delete from babyl files, so why can't
    >> Gnus. Would I have any better luck if I switched to mbox format
    >> ?

    Justin> Um, why don't you just create an nnbabyl group?


Boy, do I feel dumb. On the other hand, I think maybe I tried that
once, and couldn't figure out how to do it. Anyway, I tried it again
now, and I succeeded. OK, now I have an nnbabyl group (actually, I had
nndoc guess groups before, and now I have nndoc babyl groups, and I'm
not sure there is any difference). The thing is, that I want to DELETE
messages from the group ! I can kill messages, but I can't delete them!
That was the whole problem to begin with. Is it Gnus, or is it me ?

-- 
  The day is short, and the work is great,     |   Aharon Schkolnik
  and the laborers are lazy, and the reward    |   Aharon@Health.Gov.IL
  is great, and the Master of the house is     |
  impatient. - Ethics Of The Fathers Ch. 2     |

Re: deleting messages in nndoc?

[Justin Sheehy]

Aharon Schkolnik <aharon@health.gov.il> writes:

> OK, now I have an nnbabyl group (actually, I had nndoc guess groups
> before, and now I have nndoc babyl groups, and I'm not sure there is
> any difference). The thing is, that I want to DELETE messages from
> the group ! I can kill messages, but I can't delete them!  That was
> the whole problem to begin with. Is it Gnus, or is it me ?

The problem is that you don't want an nndoc group.

As I said before, create an nnbabyl group.

Not an nndoc group looking at a babyl file, but an nnbabyl group.

-- 
Justin Sheehy

In a cloud bones of steel.
  

Re: deleting messages in nndoc?

[Aharon Schkolnik]

>>>>> "Justin" == Justin Sheehy <justin@linus.mitre.org> writes:

    Justin> Aharon Schkolnik <aharon@health.gov.il> writes:
    >> OK, now I have an nnbabyl group (actually, I had nndoc guess
    >> groups before, and now I have nndoc babyl groups, and I'm not
    >> sure there is any difference). The thing is, that I want to
    >> DELETE messages from the group ! I can kill messages, but I
    >> can't delete them!  That was the whole problem to begin
    >> with. Is it Gnus, or is it me ?

    Justin> The problem is that you don't want an nndoc group.

    Justin> As I said before, create an nnbabyl group.

    Justin> Not an nndoc group looking at a babyl file, but an nnbabyl
    Justin> group.

O.K. - how EXACTLY do I create a nnbabyl group ?????

TIA.



    Justin> -- Justin Sheehy

    Justin> In a cloud bones of steel.
  




-- 
  The day is short, and the work is great,     |   Aharon Schkolnik
  and the laborers are lazy, and the reward    |   Aharon@Health.Gov.IL
  is great, and the Master of the house is     |
  impatient. - Ethics Of The Fathers Ch. 2     |

Re: deleting messages in nndoc?

[Hrvoje Niksic]

Aharon Schkolnik <aharon@health.gov.il> writes:

> O.K. - how EXACTLY do I create a nnbabyl group ?????

Try `G m' in *Group* buffer.

-- 
Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia
--------------------------------+--------------------------------
Ask not for whom the <CONTROL-G> tolls.

Re: deleting messages in nndoc?

[Aharon Schkolnik]

>>>>> "Hrv" == Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes:

    Hrv> Aharon Schkolnik <aharon@health.gov.il> writes:
    >> O.K. - how EXACTLY do I create a nnbabyl group ?????

    Hrv> Try `G m' in *Group* buffer.

Did that. Asks for a name and a method. Gave it foo and nnbabyl. Get a
group like




(nnbabyl "")

I guess I need to edit it (with G e). What do I need to add ?

let's say my file is called /home/aharon/foo/bar

TIA.


    Hrv> -- Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb,
    Hrv> Croatia
    Hrv> --------------------------------+--------------------------------
    Hrv> Ask not for whom the <CONTROL-G> tolls.


-- 
  The day is short, and the work is great,     |   Aharon Schkolnik
  and the laborers are lazy, and the reward    |   Aharon@Health.Gov.IL
  is great, and the Master of the house is     |
  impatient. - Ethics Of The Fathers Ch. 2     |

Re: deleting messages in nndoc?

[Kai Grossjohann]

>>>>> Aharon Schkolnik writes:

  Aharon> [...] The thing is, that I want to DELETE messages from the
  Aharon> group ! I can kill messages, but I can't delete them!  That
  Aharon> was the whole problem to begin with. Is it Gnus, or is it me
  Aharon> ?

What are you trying to do to delete a message?  Did you type B DEL?
Did you type d?  Did you type C-k?  Did you type E?

A message can be marked

  - unread (" "): fresh message, always show
  - read ("r"): message has been seen, but keep it and show when user
    asks for it
  - expirable ("E"): delete message from disks after expire time
    (default is 7 weeks) at the next expiry run (default is that
    quitting a group with q runs expiry)
  - ticked ("!"): keep message, always show it

Reading a message usually marks it as read.  Use key d.

If auto-expire is turned on for the group (via a group parameter or
the variable gnus-auto-expirable-newsgroups), reading a message
automatically marks it expirable.

To explicitly mark a message expirable, type E.

If total-expire is turned on for a group (via group parameter or
variable gnus-total-expirable-newsgroups), messages that are marked
read are also expirable!

To explicitly mark a message as ticked, use ! or u.

kai
-- 
A large number of young women don't trust men with beards.
(BFBS Radio)

Re: deleting messages in nndoc?

[Aharon Schkolnik]

>>>>> "Kai" == Kai Grossjohann <grossjohann@ls6.cs.uni-dortmund.de> writes:

>>>>> Aharon Schkolnik writes:
    Aharon> [...] The thing is, that I want to DELETE messages from
    Aharon> the group ! I can kill messages, but I can't delete them!
    Aharon> That was the whole problem to begin with. Is it Gnus, or
    Aharon> is it me ?

    Kai> What are you trying to do to delete a message?  Did you type
    Kai> B DEL?  Did you type d?  Did you type C-k?  Did you type E?

B DEL
I get:
The current newsgroup does not support article deletion.

I made the assumption that that means that expiration won't work
either.


    Kai> A message can be marked

    Kai>   - unread (" "): fresh message, always show - read ("r"):
    Kai> message has been seen, but keep it and show when user asks
    Kai> for it - expirable ("E"): delete message from disks after
    Kai> expire time (default is 7 weeks) at the next expiry run
    Kai> (default is that quitting a group with q runs expiry) -
    Kai> ticked ("!"): keep message, always show it

    Kai> Reading a message usually marks it as read.  Use key d.

    Kai> If auto-expire is turned on for the group (via a group
    Kai> parameter or the variable gnus-auto-expirable-newsgroups),
    Kai> reading a message automatically marks it expirable.

    Kai> To explicitly mark a message expirable, type E.

    Kai> If total-expire is turned on for a group (via group parameter
    Kai> or variable gnus-total-expirable-newsgroups), messages that
    Kai> are marked read are also expirable!

    Kai> To explicitly mark a message as ticked, use ! or u.

    Kai> kai -- A large number of young women don't trust men with
    Kai> beards.  (BFBS Radio)


-- 
  The day is short, and the work is great,     |   Aharon Schkolnik
  and the laborers are lazy, and the reward    |   Aharon@Health.Gov.IL
  is great, and the Master of the house is     |
  impatient. - Ethics Of The Fathers Ch. 2     |

Re: deleting messages in nndoc?

[Danny Siu]

Kai Grossjohann writes:

  >>>>>> Aharon Schkolnik writes:
  Aharon> [...] The thing is, that I want to DELETE messages from the group
  Aharon> ! I can kill messages, but I can't delete them!  That was the
  Aharon> whole problem to begin with. Is it Gnus, or is it me ?

  Kai> What are you trying to do to delete a message?  Did you type B DEL?
  Kai> Did you type d?  Did you type C-k?  Did you type E?

  Kai> A message can be marked

  Kai>   - unread (" "): fresh message, always show read ("r"): message has
  Kai> been seen, but keep it and show when user asks for it expirable
  Kai> ("E"): delete message from disks after expire time (default is 7
  Kai> weeks) at the next expiry run (default is that quitting a group with
  Kai> q runs expiry) ticked ("!"): keep message, always show it

  Kai> Reading a message usually marks it as read.  Use key d.

  Kai> If auto-expire is turned on for the group (via a group parameter or
  Kai> the variable gnus-auto-expirable-newsgroups), reading a message
  Kai> automatically marks it expirable.

  Kai> To explicitly mark a message expirable, type E.

  Kai> If total-expire is turned on for a group (via group parameter or
  Kai> variable gnus-total-expirable-newsgroups), messages that are marked
  Kai> read are also expirable!

  Kai> To explicitly mark a message as ticked, use ! or u.

Should we put Kai's clear and concise explanation about read marks in the
manual?  

-- 
                                                                ^..^
 '/..\"                                                        ( oo )  )~
m( oo )m                                                         ,,  ,,
/=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\
|  Danny Dick-Fung Siu                http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~dsiu |
|  Reference System Group             http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/~dsiu   |
|  Adobe Systems Incorporated       E-Mail:<dsiu@alumni.eecs.berkeley.edu> |
|       "What do you expect from a         <dsiu@leland.stanford.edu>      |
|          Cal. Berkeley grad.?"           <dsiu@adobe.com>                |
\=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/

Re: deleting messages in nndoc?

[Hrvoje Niksic]

Kai Grossjohann <grossjohann@charly.cs.uni-dortmund.de> writes:

>   - unread (" "): fresh message, always show
>   - read ("r"): message has been seen, but keep it and show when user
>     asks for it
>   - expirable ("E"): delete message from disks after expire time
>     (default is 7 weeks) at the next expiry run (default is that
>     quitting a group with q runs expiry)
>   - ticked ("!"): keep message, always show it
    - dormant ("?"): keep message, show it together with the followups

An important note is that (as Justin once put it) ticked and dormant
articles are just a fancy way of saying "unread".

-- 
Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia
--------------------------------+--------------------------------
main(){printf(&unix["\021%six\012\0"],(unix)["have"]+"fun"-0x60);}

Re: deleting messages in nndoc?

[Hrvoje Niksic]

Aharon Schkolnik <aharon@health.gov.il> writes:

> The thing is, that I want to DELETE messages from the group ! I can
> kill messages, but I can't delete them!  That was the whole problem
> to begin with. Is it Gnus, or is it me ?

Or is it not reading the manual?

Try `B DEL'.

-- 
Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia
--------------------------------+--------------------------------
Speak softly and carry a +6 two-handed sword.

Re: deleting messages in nndoc?

[Aharon Schkolnik]

>>>>> "Hrv" == Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes:

    Hrv> Aharon Schkolnik <aharon@health.gov.il> writes:
    >> >>>>> "Hrv" == Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes:
    >> 
    Hrv> Aharon Schkolnik <aharon@health.gov.il> writes:
    >> >> Let's say my babyl file is in /home/aharon/bab/a.b I type G
    >> m, >> and it asks me for a name and a method.
    >> 
    Hrv> Hmm...  does it ask for an address, or something like that?
    >> 
    >> 
    >> Nope. Just name and method.

    Hrv> Then change `nnbabyl-mbox-file' in the group parameters to
    Hrv> the file name "/home/aharon/bab/a.b" and it should,
    Hrv> hopefully, work.

Now I have:

;;; Editing the select method for `nnbabyl:foo2'.
;; Type `C-c C-c' after you've finished editing.

(nnbabyl ""
	 (nnbabyl-mbox-file "/usr/users/aharon/News/x.x"))


But, when I try to open it, I get:

Couldn't request group nnbabyl:foo2: No such group: foo2

    Hrv> -- Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb,
    Hrv> Croatia
    Hrv> --------------------------------+--------------------------------
    Hrv> "A Real Programmer's code can awe with its fiendish
    Hrv> brilliance, even as its crockishness appalls."


-- 
  The day is short, and the work is great,     |   Aharon Schkolnik
  and the laborers are lazy, and the reward    |   Aharon@Health.Gov.IL
  is great, and the Master of the house is     |
  impatient. - Ethics Of The Fathers Ch. 2     |

Re: deleting messages in nndoc?

[Kai Grossjohann]

>>>>> Paul Stodghill writes:

  Paul> Has anyone put together a patch to GNUS that allows messages
  Paul> to be deleted from nndoc files?

nndoc is read-only, but there is nnfolder.  You might need to make
symlinks from your ~/Mail directory to your files, or you might need
to set the nnfolder-directory or nnmail-directory or something
variable to the right value in the group parameters.  Or something.

kai
-- 
A large number of young women don't trust men with beards.
(BFBS Radio)

Re: deleting messages in nndoc?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Paul Stodghill <stodghil@CS.Cornell.EDU> writes:

> Has anyone put together a patch to GNUS that allows messages to be deleted
> from nndoc files?

The main reason that nndoc can't delete messages is that nndoc isn't
supposed to alter the contents of the documents it reads.  Since it
can't add new headers to keep an article-to-number mapping consistant,
articles won't have consistent article numbers if we allow article
deletion.

However, this is only important for solid nndoc groups.  There's
really no reason why nndoc shouldn't be able to edit ephemeral nndoc
groups, since the article-to-number mapping is rather up in the air in
any case.

So, deletion is (in principle) possible, although it would take rather
a lot of programming to make nndoc able to do that stuff.  Each and
every document format would need its own message deletion/insertion
function, which can get rather hairy in some cases.

So I don't really think it's worth it.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen