1) Trying to use `nnfolder' 2) Remote access

1) Trying to use `nnfolder' 2) Remote access

[François Pinard]

Hi, people.  (And maybe Lars?)

Following a suggestion from Horvje, I would like trying `nnfolder' to
access a lot of Babyl files from within Gnus (and take advantage of MIME
and many other features), but do not find the magic incantations to get
it up running from my `.gnus' file.  Oh, I tried a full day, a while ago,
but after a lot of Gnus reactions looking bizarre to me, I got somewhat
discouraged of trying.  Cleaning directories and `.newsrc.eld' after each
try is also painful for me.

The manual says very little about how to configure backends and start the
overall thing.  It took me some energy to get started with `nnml' initially,
and later, with `nnsoup'.  `nndoc' was easier.  The rest is still mysterious
for me.  Once again, this is maybe the weakest point of the Gnus manual.

Would someone be kind enough to explain his/her own setup,
if using `nnfolder', and in some quick lines, what I should expect?

When I see a strange behavior, I'm usually careful to report it to Lars,
but in this case, so little works that I do not even know where to start
reporting.  I thought that a good initial step for me would be to mimic
the working setup of someone else.


I also have another, separate request for advice.  Currently, for some
projects I manage, I keep a mirror of my correspondence as a directory full
of Babyl files.  I know that Gnus has the capability of opening servers
on remote sets of articles, and would like to offer such a capability to
my pretesters if the change in format is not too drastic.  I do not have
much experience with these Gnus capabilities.  Would someone have opinions
about a working approach that would be a good compromise between outside
accessibility, and my current organisation (folders of Babyl files)?

-- 
François Pinard                            mailto:pinard@iro.umontreal.ca
Join the free Translation Project!    http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard

Re: 1) Trying to use `nnfolder' 2) Remote access

[Aaron M. Ucko]

François Pinard <pinard@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> Following a suggestion from Horvje, I would like trying `nnfolder' to
> access a lot of Babyl files from within Gnus (and take advantage of MIME

You want nnbabyl.

-- 
Aaron M. Ucko, KB1CJC <amu@mit.edu> (finger amu@monk.mit.edu)

Re: 1) Trying to use `nnfolder' 2) Remote access

[François Pinard]

amu@mit.edu (Aaron M. Ucko) écrit:

> François Pinard <pinard@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> > Following a suggestion from Horvje, I would like trying `nnfolder' to
> > access a lot of Babyl files from within Gnus (and take advantage of MIME

> You want nnbabyl.

No, I do not! :-)

I need to delete, edit, or otherwise alter the files.  You know, I do such
things all the time.  I surely agree that Gnus shows articles and messages
very well.  Yet, read-only backends are not very attractive to me, as I
almost invariably have to resort to other means to modify file contents.
I wish Gnus should be more helpful than prohibitive, when the times come
to modify my own files.

Hrvoje told me that `nnfolder' was allowing me to do modifications,
and that is why I feel interested to evaluate if `nnfolder' would be
comfortable for me.

-- 
François Pinard                            mailto:pinard@iro.umontreal.ca
Join the free Translation Project!    http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard

Re: 1) Trying to use `nnfolder' 2) Remote access

[Kai.Grossjohann]

François Pinard <pinard@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

  > > You want nnbabyl.
  > 
  > No, I do not! :-)
  > 
  > I need to delete, edit, or otherwise alter the files.

nnbabyl: Babyl format file, all groups in one file.
nnmbox: mbox format file, all groups in one file.
nnfolder: mbox format files, one group per file, one file per group.
nndoc: read-only

I think the one you want (several babyl files) doesn't exist.

kai
-- 
I like _\bb_\bo_\bt_\bh kinds of music.

Re: 1) Trying to use `nnfolder' 2) Remote access

[Kai.Grossjohann]

François Pinard <pinard@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

  > I also have another, separate request for advice.  Currently, for some
  > projects I manage, I keep a mirror of my correspondence as a directory full
  > of Babyl files.  I know that Gnus has the capability of opening servers
  > on remote sets of articles, and would like to offer such a capability to
  > my pretesters if the change in format is not too drastic.

G f /user@host:/path/to/file RET  ?

kai
-- 
I like _\bb_\bo_\bt_\bh kinds of music.

Re: 1) Trying to use `nnfolder' 2) Remote access

[Hrvoje Niksic]

François Pinard <pinard@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> Following a suggestion from Horvje, I would like trying `nnfolder' to
> access a lot of Babyl files from within Gnus (and take advantage of MIME
> and many other features), but do not find the magic incantations to get
> it up running from my `.gnus' file.

Did I really say that?  I think I suggested the use of `nnbabyl', but
then you said that `nnbabyl' was unable to edit files, which I think
is wrong (but I haven't tried it!)  Anyway, I may have suggested
nnfolder as an *alternative* to nnbabyl files.

Re: 1) Trying to use `nnfolder' 2) Remote access

[François Pinard]

Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> écrit:

> > Following a suggestion from Horvje, I would like trying `nnfolder' to
> > access a lot of Babyl files from within Gnus (and take advantage of MIME
> > and many other features), but do not find the magic incantations to get
> > it up running from my `.gnus' file.

> Did I really say that?  I think I suggested the use of `nnbabyl', but
> then you said that `nnbabyl' was unable to edit files, which I think
> is wrong (but I haven't tried it!)  Anyway, I may have suggested
> nnfolder as an *alternative* to nnbabyl files.

Most probably.  I found a script, in a directory I made for doing such
tests, which converts many Babyl files to mbox format, exactly those I
wanted to play with `nnfolder'.  So maybe I realized and forgotten that
I had to move away from Babyl to use `nnfolder'.

But I never really succeeded in using it.  For example, the active file
contained a lot of `nil' groups, Gnus was refusing to open most of the
groups, and other strangeties.  This is why I was asking if someone has
some working setup that I might try to mimic to start with, at least to
understand a bit what is normal and what should be reported as a bug.

I understand that all folders should be brought into a common directory,
and I'm ready to create many symbolic links from a common place if this is
required.  (There might be in the order of 2000 to 3000 groups if I ever
complete this job.)  But how should I get the whole thing into motion?
The manual does not help me much about it.  I presume I would know how
everything interrelates if I had fought enough to write a few backends,
but as a mere user, I feel a bit lost about how to proceed.

-- 
François Pinard                            mailto:pinard@iro.umontreal.ca
Join the free Translation Project!    http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard

Re: 1) Trying to use `nnfolder' 2) Remote access

[Kai.Grossjohann]

Shane Holder <holder@rsn.hp.com> writes:

  > I'm confused now.  Why couldn't he just use 'G f' one time for each
  > file?  I just tried this using files in nnmbox format and it seemed to
  > work.  So couldn't he just set nnbabyl-get-new-mail to nil and use 'G
  > f'?

`G f' creates an nndoc group which is read-only.

kai
-- 
I like _\bb_\bo_\bt_\bh kinds of music.

Re: 1) Trying to use `nnfolder' 2) Remote access

[François Pinard]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE écrit:

>   > I also have another, separate request for advice.  Currently, for some
>   > projects I manage, I keep a mirror of my correspondence as a directory
>   > full of Babyl files.  I know that Gnus has the capability of opening
>   > servers on remote sets of articles, and would like to offer such a
>   > capability to my pretesters if the change in format is not too drastic.

> G f /user@host:/path/to/file RET  ?

Thanks for the tip.  It could ease access to a single file as a group.
Best would be to find a way so a user could browse all groups at once,
maybe like we may do already for `nntp', and maybe even subscribe to some
of them.  Unless such associations are necessarily ephemeral by nature?

Hmph.  I realize how fuzzy all of this is in my head.  For example,
could we say that a server is only a particular instance of a backend?
And at which level "ephemeralness" applies?  backend, server, group?

-- 
François Pinard                            mailto:pinard@iro.umontreal.ca
Join the free Translation Project!    http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard

Re: 1) Trying to use `nnfolder' 2) Remote access

[Kai.Grossjohann]

François Pinard <pinard@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

  > [...] But how should I get the whole thing into motion?  The
  > manual does not help me much about it.  I presume I would know how
  > everything interrelates if I had fought enough to write a few
  > backends, but as a mere user, I feel a bit lost about how to
  > proceed.

Well, I guess the difficult part about it is to configure the server
such that it searches for its files in a different place.  From the
*Server* buffer, you can easily create a new server, and I guess
you'll need to add parameters for nnfolder-directory and
nnfolder-active-file, but I don't know what else.

Emacs comes with a program b2m for going from babyl to mbox format, btw.

kai
-- 
I like _\bb_\bo_\bt_\bh kinds of music.

Re: 1) Trying to use `nnfolder' 2) Remote access

[Shane Holder]

>>>>> "Kai" == Kai Grossjohann <Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE> writes:

  Kai> François Pinard <pinard@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:
  >> > You want nnbabyl.
  >> 
  >> No, I do not! :-)
  >> 
  >> I need to delete, edit, or otherwise alter the files.

  Kai> nnbabyl: Babyl format file, all groups in one file.
  Kai> nnmbox: mbox format file, all groups in one file.
  Kai> nnfolder: mbox format files, one group per file, one file per group.
  Kai> nndoc: read-only

  Kai> I think the one you want (several babyl files) doesn't exist.

I'm confused now.  Why couldn't he just use 'G f' one time for each
file?  I just tried this using files in nnmbox format and it seemed to
work.  So couldn't he just set nnbabyl-get-new-mail to nil and use 'G
f'?

Shane

Re: 1) Trying to use `nnfolder' 2) Remote access

[Kai.Grossjohann]

François Pinard <pinard@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

  > Thanks for the tip.  It could ease access to a single file as a group.
  > Best would be to find a way so a user could browse all groups at once,
  > maybe like we may do already for `nntp', and maybe even subscribe to some
  > of them.  Unless such associations are necessarily ephemeral by nature?

`G D /user@host:/path/to/dir/ RET'?

kai
-- 
I like _\bb_\bo_\bt_\bh kinds of music.

Re: 1) Trying to use `nnfolder' 2) Remote access

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

François Pinard <pinard@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> Hmph.  I realize how fuzzy all of this is in my head.  For example,
> could we say that a server is only a particular instance of a backend?

Properly speaking, a backend is an entity that implements a server
interface.  nnml, nntp and nnweb are backends.  A server is a named
instance of a backend, with backend slots set.

Or, rather, a backend is a class and a server is an object.  :-)

> And at which level "ephemeralness" applies?  backend, server, group?

Only groups are ephemeral (or not).

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: 1) Trying to use `nnfolder' 2) Remote access

[François Pinard]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE écrit:

> Well, I guess the difficult part about it is to configure the server such
> that it searches for its files in a different place.  From the *Server*
> buffer, you can easily create a new server, and I guess you'll need to
> add parameters for nnfolder-directory and nnfolder-active-file, but I
> don't know what else.

I guess the difficult part, for me, is to understand how it should work,
so I'm at least able to report things which look like misbehaviour.
I'm keeping your notes for when I'll try again.  Thanks for sharing your
thoughts with me.  (If I only could use the Vulcan grip over you :-).

> Emacs comes with a program b2m for going from babyl to mbox format, btw.

I also have a little Perl script (babyl) to do that. :-)  The problem is not
really there, for me...

-- 
François Pinard                            mailto:pinard@iro.umontreal.ca
Join the free Translation Project!    http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard