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From: "François Pinard" <pinard@iro.umontreal.ca>
Cc: "^[$(BH>ED^[(B ^[$(B7u0l^[(B Handa Kenichi" <handa@etl.go.jp>
Subject: Re: Info on Internationalization
Date: 06 Dec 1998 09:11:41 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <oqww45nyw2.fsf@icule.progiciels-bpi.ca> (raw)
In-Reply-To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen's message of "03 Dec 1998 01:05:17 +0100"

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Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> (I found the terminology in the document interesting, though -- they
> refer to UFT-8 as a "charset".  Hee hee hee hee!  Ok, they explain
> that it's really a CES (character encoding scheme), but it's a charset
> anyway.  (Not a character set; that's different.  A charset.  :-)

I had a similar problem in `recode'.  Users did convince me that since
the UTF-8 encoding scheme is exclusively used with the UCS (Universal
Character Set), it is kind of conceptual overkill to consider a double
layer, and just simpler to take UTF-8 as a charset.  This *is* abusive,
of course, but I now think it is handy to accept it that way.

Also, beware that all UCS related things (Unicode, ISO 10646, UCS-N and
UTF-N) are a religious issue for many people.  It relies to Han unification
(for example, attributing a single code to similar Chinese and Japanese
glyphs), to which many Japanese *strongly* object.

So, any blind UTF-8! UTF-8! UTF-8! attitudes are prone to be very irritating
to some people, and we should be careful about our own attitudes.  Of course,
UTF-8 has its own elegances and various technical merits, which surely appeal
me a lot, but we should never loose sight and perspective that charsets
(or encodings) are there to serve people, and not the other way around.

We surely may discuss at length for Mule or against Mule, which currently
ignores UCS (yet this is in the process of changing).  The FSF choice
favouring Mule was indeed taking a position within a religious fight about
Han unification, and we know that the FSF likes politics :-).  For the
poor little me, Mule is not technically appealing (to put it very mildly!).
However, there are two great qualities I recognise in Mule: the first is the
incredible amount of knowledge and experience which has been melt within it
(especially about input methods), the second is to bring a discording voice
in our Americanized views, remembering us that we should not bulldoze people.

-- 
François Pinard                            mailto:pinard@iro.umontreal.ca
Join the free Translation Project!    http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard


  parent reply	other threads:[~1998-12-06 14:11 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 70+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <6f67buzzff.fsf@dna.lth.se>
1998-12-02  9:41 ` Automatic part insertion: åäö and 吃哪塞 on the same line Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
1998-12-02 10:00   ` Russ Allbery
1998-12-02 12:49     ` Kurt Swanson
1998-12-02 17:19     ` Automatic part insertion: åäö and ÔÄû " François Pinard
1998-12-02 17:30       ` Hrvoje Niksic
1998-12-02 17:55         ` Richard Coleman
1998-12-03  8:53           ` Automatic part insertion: åao and ÔAû " Jari Aalto+list.ding
1998-12-02 18:02     ` Automatic part insertion: åäö and 吃哪塞 " Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
1998-12-02 19:32     ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
1998-12-02 10:27   ` Matt Armstrong
1998-12-02 18:03     ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
1998-12-02 19:12     ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
1998-12-02 20:39       ` Simon Josefsson
     [not found]         ` <6fyaopd2dz.fsf@dna.lth.se>
1998-12-03 18:39           ` Simon Josefsson
1998-12-02 16:59   ` Hrvoje Niksic
1998-12-02 22:19   ` Karl Kleinpaste
1998-12-02 22:40     ` Hrvoje Niksic
1998-12-02 23:07     ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
1999-02-13  2:17       ` Neil Crellin
1999-02-13  6:00         ` Dmitry Yaitskov
1999-02-13 12:59           ` Kai.Grossjohann
1999-02-19 13:58         ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
1999-02-19 17:04           ` Neil Crellin
1998-12-03  0:10     ` Kai.Grossjohann
1998-12-03  6:38       ` Graham Murray
1998-12-03 10:46         ` Kai.Grossjohann
1998-12-03 11:50         ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
1998-12-02 12:39 ` Vladimir Volovich
1998-12-02 17:38   ` Shenghuo ZHU
1998-12-02 18:34     ` Vladimir Volovich
1998-12-02 18:59       ` Shenghuo ZHU
1998-12-02 19:43         ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
1998-12-02 23:34           ` Info on Internationalization Richard Coleman
1998-12-03  0:05             ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
1998-12-03  0:17               ` Shenghuo ZHU
1998-12-03 11:39                 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
1998-12-03 16:49                   ` Shenghuo ZHU
1998-12-03  0:27               ` Richard Coleman
1998-12-06 14:11               ` François Pinard [this message]
1998-12-03  0:06             ` Shenghuo ZHU
1998-12-03  0:12               ` Hrvoje Niksic
1998-12-03 11:38               ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
1998-12-03 13:18                 ` Hrvoje Niksic
1998-12-03 16:39                   ` Shenghuo ZHU
1998-12-03 16:38                 ` Shenghuo ZHU
1998-12-04  1:15                   ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
1998-12-04  7:10                     ` Shenghuo ZHU
1998-12-02 21:19         ` Automatic part insertion: åäö and 吃哪塞 on the same line Vladimir Volovich
1998-12-02 21:37           ` Shenghuo ZHU
1998-12-02 22:18             ` Vladimir Volovich
1998-12-02 23:29               ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
1998-12-02 17:50   ` Hrvoje Niksic
1998-12-02 18:19   ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
1998-12-02 19:12   ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
1998-12-02 19:41     ` Vladimir Volovich
1998-12-02 21:34       ` Hrvoje Niksic
1998-12-02 22:29       ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
1998-12-04  8:31         ` Vladimir Volovich
1998-12-02 21:33     ` Hrvoje Niksic
1998-12-02 16:26 ` Michael Harnois
1998-12-02 17:02   ` Michael Harnois
1998-11-14 15:30 Scriptin' MIME Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
1998-11-14 18:07 ` Bruce Stephens
1998-11-14 18:27   ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
1998-11-14 18:38     ` Bruce Stephens
1998-11-14 20:48     ` Richard Coleman
1998-11-14 19:55   ` Hrvoje Niksic
1998-11-14 20:45     ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
1998-11-14 20:45       ` Hrvoje Niksic
1998-11-14 18:29 ` Andi Kleen

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