From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/25659 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_Pinard?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: 0x0a converted to 0x0d when saving attachments Date: 05 Oct 1999 10:25:39 -0400 Sender: owner-ding@hpc.uh.edu Message-ID: References: <5b905mesqo.fsf@giga.cs.rochester.edu> <5bemfecz14.fsf@giga.cs.rochester.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: coloc-standby.netfonds.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1035163004 15176 80.91.224.250 (21 Oct 2002 01:16:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 01:16:44 +0000 (UTC) Cc: ding@gnus.org Return-Path: Original-Received: from spinoza.math.uh.edu (spinoza.math.uh.edu [129.7.128.18]) by sclp3.sclp.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA07831 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:30:51 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from sina.hpc.uh.edu (lists@Sina.HPC.UH.EDU [129.7.3.5]) by spinoza.math.uh.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAB24073; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:29:55 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: by sina.hpc.uh.edu (TLB v0.09a (1.20 tibbs 1996/10/09 22:03:07)); Tue, 05 Oct 1999 09:30:59 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: from sclp3.sclp.com (root@sclp3.sclp.com [204.252.123.139]) by sina.hpc.uh.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01418 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:30:46 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: from jupiter.rtsq.qc.ca ([199.84.132.81]) by sclp3.sclp.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA07819 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:28:48 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from ariel.progiciels-bpi.ca by jupiter.rtsq.qc.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA26719; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:28:19 -0400 Original-Received: from iro.umontreal.ca (uucp@localhost) by ariel.progiciels-bpi.ca (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI) via UUCP id KAA15167; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:31:28 -0700 Original-Received: from titan.progiciels-bpi.ca by icule.progiciels-bpi.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA01427; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:25:48 -0400 Original-Received: from titan.progiciels-bpi.ca.progiciels-bpi.ca (unknown [199.84.132.86]) by titan.progiciels-bpi.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD7FE50; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:25:41 -0400 (EDT) Original-To: Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai =?iso-8859-1?q?Gro=DFjohann?=) X-Face: "b_m|CE6#'Q8fliQrwHl9K,]PA_o'*S~Dva{~b1n*)K*A(BIwQW.:LY?t4~xhYka_.LV?Qq `}X|71X0ea&H]9Dsk!`kxBXlG;q$mLfv_vtaHK_rHFKu]4'<*LWCyUe@ZcI6"*wB5M@[m François Pinard writes: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp > > $BH>ED$5$s(B (Handa-san) > I don't know any Japanese at all, Neither I. :-) > and I wonder: is `-san' a suffix used when speaking of a person informally; > somewhat like the use of first name (rather than `Mr' or `Ms' and last > name) in the Western culture? Or is it part of his name? Here is what I learned from my Japanese correspondents. Traditionally (that is, when Japanese do not give into "americanizing" their name, tss, tss, tss! :-), the family name always come first, followed by the given name. You, _when_ you address your correspondent, exclusively use the family name. The given name is present on business cards or signatures, or when you want to identify someone while speaking about him/her. But when addressing your correspondent directly, the given name is reserved to the close family or very intimates. That is, nothing common with the usage we do of the first name in Western countries. Japanese are surely tolerant that we use it, but this is not really the polite way. Instead, there is the friendly `-san' suffix after the family name, that corresponds a bit to our usage of the first name, which is the common way and very acceptable in most circumstances. If you want to be more formal, and show greater respect, a bit like we use `Mr.' in English, you use the `-sama' suffix instead of `-san'. Notice that the name is written with Kanji characters (ideograms), but the politeness suffix (like any other kind of grammatical suffix, by the way) is written with Hiragana characters (phonetic). The grammatical properties are written phonetically after the ideograms. Levels of politeness are part of the grammar. There is no correspondence in English, and only a tiny bit in French (familiar `tu'/ polite `vous' when addressing a single person). -- --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit François Pinard http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard --=-=-=--