* Date header rewrite @ 2011-01-31 1:56 Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-01-31 8:07 ` Francis Moreau ` (4 more replies) 0 siblings, 5 replies; 39+ messages in thread From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-01-31 1:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding As I hinted earlier, I've now totally rewritten the way date headers are customised. You can now have as many Date headers as you like. I've removed a slew of date customisation variables, but it should still respect the legacy variables. (Sort of.) -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-01-31 1:56 Date header rewrite Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-01-31 8:07 ` Francis Moreau 2011-01-31 9:38 ` Rupert Swarbrick 2011-01-31 10:34 ` Robert Pluim ` (3 subsequent siblings) 4 siblings, 1 reply; 39+ messages in thread From: Francis Moreau @ 2011-01-31 8:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > As I hinted earlier, I've now totally rewritten the way date headers are > customised. You can now have as many Date headers as you like. > > I've removed a slew of date customisation variables, but it should still > respect the legacy variables. (Sort of.) Would be nice if you could a least give the revelant commits. Thanks -- Francis ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-01-31 8:07 ` Francis Moreau @ 2011-01-31 9:38 ` Rupert Swarbrick 0 siblings, 0 replies; 39+ messages in thread From: Rupert Swarbrick @ 2011-01-31 9:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1059 bytes --] Francis Moreau <francis.moro@gmail.com> writes: > Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > >> As I hinted earlier, I've now totally rewritten the way date headers are >> customised. You can now have as many Date headers as you like. >> >> I've removed a slew of date customisation variables, but it should still >> respect the legacy variables. (Sort of.) > > Would be nice if you could a least give the revelant commits. > > Thanks Or just look at the git log. I presume it's commit 5b81b4b7b447c64f3c09bad8541b3dfa71c392d1 Author: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> Date: Sun Jan 30 17:55:08 2011 -0800 Rewrite the Date header formatting functionality. The user can now have infinitely many Date headers. This change should be pretty much backwards-compatible, even though many customisation variables have been removed. Rupert P.S. No, the user can't have infinitely many Date headers. Arbitrarily many, maybe. Infinitely many would require a message of infinite length. Grr. [-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 315 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-01-31 1:56 Date header rewrite Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-01-31 8:07 ` Francis Moreau @ 2011-01-31 10:34 ` Robert Pluim 2011-01-31 10:43 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-01-31 13:49 ` Greg Troxel ` (2 subsequent siblings) 4 siblings, 1 reply; 39+ messages in thread From: Robert Pluim @ 2011-01-31 10:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > As I hinted earlier, I've now totally rewritten the way date headers are > customised. You can now have as many Date headers as you like. > > I've removed a slew of date customisation variables, but it should still > respect the legacy variables. (Sort of.) I had (gnus-treat-date-local 'head), which now seems to be ignored, I had to do (setq gnus-article-date-headers '(local)) to get it back. Just for fun, I tried: (setq gnus-article-date-headers '(local lapsed)) which caused my CPU to overheat, and everything in a summary buffer to become ridiculously slow. Using just combined-lapsed didn't have those issues (but that shows the original Date header, <sigh>). This is on XEmacs 21.5 (beta29) "garbanzo" 7ea837399734+ [Lucid] (i686-pc-cygwin, Mule) Regards Robert ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-01-31 10:34 ` Robert Pluim @ 2011-01-31 10:43 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-01-31 11:30 ` Robert Pluim 0 siblings, 1 reply; 39+ messages in thread From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-01-31 10:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes: > I had (gnus-treat-date-local 'head), which now seems to be ignored, I > had to do (setq gnus-article-date-headers '(local)) to get it back. `gnus-article-date-headers' is set from -date-local, etc, and if I try setting it, I get the expected result. Are you setting gnus-treat-date-local after loading gnus-art, by any chance? > Just for fun, I tried: > > (setq gnus-article-date-headers '(local lapsed)) > > which caused my CPU to overheat, and everything in a summary buffer to > become ridiculously slow. Should be fixed now. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-01-31 10:43 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-01-31 11:30 ` Robert Pluim 2011-02-01 1:55 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 39+ messages in thread From: Robert Pluim @ 2011-01-31 11:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes: > >> I had (gnus-treat-date-local 'head), which now seems to be ignored, I >> had to do (setq gnus-article-date-headers '(local)) to get it back. > > `gnus-article-date-headers' is set from -date-local, etc, and if I try > setting it, I get the expected result. > > Are you setting gnus-treat-date-local after loading gnus-art, by any > chance? So this turned out to be because I'd set gnus-treat-date-local using customize, which means this: (dolist (type types) (let ((variable (intern (format "gnus-treat-date-%s" type)))) (when (and (boundp variable) (symbol-value variable)) fails when doing the boundp test. Setting it with setq in .gnus.el makes things work fine. Whether customize should create variable bindings for variables that don't exist is a question I'm not going to think about early on a Monday morning :) >> Just for fun, I tried: >> >> (setq gnus-article-date-headers '(local lapsed)) >> >> which caused my CPU to overheat, and everything in a summary buffer to >> become ridiculously slow. > > Should be fixed now. Confirmed. Robert ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-01-31 11:30 ` Robert Pluim @ 2011-02-01 1:55 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-02-01 7:42 ` Robert Pluim 2011-02-01 19:23 ` Eric S Fraga 0 siblings, 2 replies; 39+ messages in thread From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-02-01 1:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes: > Whether customize should create variable bindings for variables that > don't exist is a question I'm not going to think about early on a Monday > morning :) It's later now. (In some regions.) :-) Yeah, I had no idea that customize didn't define the variables unless already existing. So... There are three options here that I can see: 1) Rip out all the -treat-date-* compat stuff and just let people deal with the new variable. It's nice, because then you don't any confusion. Just annoyed people. 2) Redefine all the -treat-date-* variables again, but only use the for the defaults. This is confusing, but would probably work slightly better for more people. 3) Make the new variable totally "dynamic". That is, if it isn't set explicitly by the user, then use all the -treat-date-* variables instead at article rendering time. This is totally confusing, but would probably annoy the least people right now. I'm leaning towards 1). -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-02-01 1:55 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-02-01 7:42 ` Robert Pluim 2011-02-01 19:23 ` Eric S Fraga 1 sibling, 0 replies; 39+ messages in thread From: Robert Pluim @ 2011-02-01 7:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes: > >> Whether customize should create variable bindings for variables that >> don't exist is a question I'm not going to think about early on a Monday >> morning :) > > It's later now. (In some regions.) :-) > > Yeah, I had no idea that customize didn't define the variables unless > already existing. > > So... > > There are three options here that I can see: > > 1) Rip out all the -treat-date-* compat stuff and just let people deal > with the new variable. It's nice, because then you don't any > confusion. Just annoyed people. I don't mind this option. It's not like having the date header display differently from expected prevents important stuff from working. [1] > 2) Redefine all the -treat-date-* variables again, but only use the for > the defaults. This is confusing, but would probably work slightly > better for more people. > > 3) Make the new variable totally "dynamic". That is, if it isn't set > explicitly by the user, then use all the -treat-date-* variables > instead at article rendering time. This is totally confusing, but would > probably annoy the least people right now. > Please don't do this. I'm too easily confused as it is. > I'm leaning towards 1). Go for it. Robert Footnotes: [1] Famous last words, I'm sure ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-02-01 1:55 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-02-01 7:42 ` Robert Pluim @ 2011-02-01 19:23 ` Eric S Fraga 2011-02-03 4:14 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 39+ messages in thread From: Eric S Fraga @ 2011-02-01 19:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: [...] > > There are three options here that I can see: > > 1) Rip out all the -treat-date-* compat stuff and just let people deal > with the new variable. It's nice, because then you don't any > confusion. Just annoyed people. go for this option! annoyance is temporary; confusion (for me) seems to be eternal, especially wrt gnus ;-) -- : Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 24.0.50.1 + No Gnus v0.11 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-02-01 19:23 ` Eric S Fraga @ 2011-02-03 4:14 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 39+ messages in thread From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-02-03 4:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes: >> 1) Rip out all the -treat-date-* compat stuff and just let people deal >> with the new variable. It's nice, because then you don't any >> confusion. Just annoyed people. > > go for this option! I've now done this. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-01-31 1:56 Date header rewrite Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-01-31 8:07 ` Francis Moreau 2011-01-31 10:34 ` Robert Pluim @ 2011-01-31 13:49 ` Greg Troxel 2011-02-01 1:07 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-02-01 18:23 ` Philipp Haselwarter 2011-02-01 6:05 ` Michael Welsh Duggan 2011-02-01 8:11 ` Francis Moreau 4 siblings, 2 replies; 39+ messages in thread From: Greg Troxel @ 2011-01-31 13:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 789 bytes --] As I hinted earlier, I've now totally rewritten the way date headers are customised. You can now have as many Date headers as you like. This isn't clearly a bug, but I think it is. In the "ago" display, seconds are omitted if 0. This results in something like Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 17:56:53 -0800 (11 hours, 49 minutes, 59 seconds ago) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 17:56:53 -0800 (11 hours, 50 minutes ago) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 17:56:53 -0800 (11 hours, 50 minutes, 1 second ago) I find the seconds coming and going to be distracting. Plus I wonder if the minutes would go away as well when 0. I have no problem omitting leading hours/days/minutes as zero, and omitting seconds because there is a day, etc. I am only objecting to suppressing fields because they are zero. [-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 194 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-01-31 13:49 ` Greg Troxel @ 2011-02-01 1:07 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-02-01 1:47 ` Richard Riley 2011-02-01 18:23 ` Philipp Haselwarter 1 sibling, 1 reply; 39+ messages in thread From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-02-01 1:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Greg Troxel <gdt@work.lexort.com> writes: > This isn't clearly a bug, but I think it is. In the "ago" display, > seconds are omitted if 0. All segments that are of zero size are omitted. It's a feature. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-02-01 1:07 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-02-01 1:47 ` Richard Riley 2011-02-01 2:04 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 39+ messages in thread From: Richard Riley @ 2011-02-01 1:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > Greg Troxel <gdt@work.lexort.com> writes: > >> This isn't clearly a bug, but I think it is. In the "ago" display, >> seconds are omitted if 0. > > All segments that are of zero size are omitted. It's a feature. Whats the official way to disable this ticking time feature? I did have '(gnus-article-update-lapsed-header nil) but that doesnt work now. cheers, r. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-02-01 1:47 ` Richard Riley @ 2011-02-01 2:04 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-02-01 2:25 ` Richard Riley 0 siblings, 1 reply; 39+ messages in thread From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-02-01 2:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com> writes: > Whats the official way to disable this ticking time feature? I did have > > '(gnus-article-update-lapsed-header nil) > > but that doesnt work now. The information you're looking for is cleverly hidden in the "Article Date" section in the Gnus manual. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-02-01 2:04 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-02-01 2:25 ` Richard Riley 2011-02-01 2:38 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 39+ messages in thread From: Richard Riley @ 2011-02-01 2:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com> writes: > >> Whats the official way to disable this ticking time feature? I did have >> >> '(gnus-article-update-lapsed-header nil) >> >> but that doesnt work now. > > The information you're looking for is cleverly hidden in the "Article > Date" section in the Gnus manual. So it is. Now. Thanks. gnus-article-update-date-headers is a variable defined in `gnus-art.el'. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-02-01 2:25 ` Richard Riley @ 2011-02-01 2:38 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-02-01 2:44 ` Richard Riley 0 siblings, 1 reply; 39+ messages in thread From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-02-01 2:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com> writes: > So it is. Now. The manual was updated in the same checkin as the code. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-02-01 2:38 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-02-01 2:44 ` Richard Riley 2011-02-01 3:10 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 39+ messages in thread From: Richard Riley @ 2011-02-01 2:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com> writes: > >> So it is. Now. > > The manual was updated in the same checkin as the code. Yes, and thanks for pointing it out. Previously the way was the variable I quoted. It can be hard to second guess a variable rename. One could, of course, re-read the manual with each pull .. ;) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-02-01 2:44 ` Richard Riley @ 2011-02-01 3:10 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-02-01 6:41 ` Richard Riley 0 siblings, 1 reply; 39+ messages in thread From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-02-01 3:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com> writes: > Yes, and thanks for pointing it out. Previously the way was the variable > I quoted. It can be hard to second guess a variable rename. One could, > of course, re-read the manual with each pull .. ;) You mean you don't?!? We can do a deal. If you promise to read the entire manual for every commit, I promise to document variables/functionality that I plan on introducing in the source code one week ahead of time. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-02-01 3:10 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-02-01 6:41 ` Richard Riley 0 siblings, 0 replies; 39+ messages in thread From: Richard Riley @ 2011-02-01 6:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com> writes: > >> Yes, and thanks for pointing it out. Previously the way was the variable >> I quoted. It can be hard to second guess a variable rename. One could, >> of course, re-read the manual with each pull .. ;) > > You mean you don't?!? > > We can do a deal. If you promise to read the entire manual for every > commit, I promise to document variables/functionality that I plan on > introducing in the source code one week ahead of time. It's a deal. Who knows, with that agreement my spam processing might even start working as I finally notice the correct spam variable or quoting method that's currently making it a non starter. Which reminds me .. I need to retest the issue with emails being reprocessed. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-01-31 13:49 ` Greg Troxel 2011-02-01 1:07 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-02-01 18:23 ` Philipp Haselwarter 1 sibling, 0 replies; 39+ messages in thread From: Philipp Haselwarter @ 2011-02-01 18:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Greg Troxel <gdt@work.lexort.com> writes: > As I hinted earlier, I've now totally rewritten the way date headers are > customised. You can now have as many Date headers as you like. > > This isn't clearly a bug, but I think it is. In the "ago" display, > seconds are omitted if 0. This results in something like > > Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 17:56:53 -0800 (11 hours, 49 minutes, 59 seconds ago) > Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 17:56:53 -0800 (11 hours, 50 minutes ago) > Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 17:56:53 -0800 (11 hours, 50 minutes, 1 second ago) > > I find the seconds coming and going to be distracting. Plus I wonder > if the minutes would go away as well when 0. > > > I have no problem omitting leading hours/days/minutes as zero, and > omitting seconds because there is a day, etc. I am only objecting to > suppressing fields because they are zero. > +1 I'd also prefer if the seconds/the least relevant portion didn't disappear when it's zero; a counter is fine with me, but the changing length of the date string is somewhat distracting. Oh and what happened to months (between weeks and years)? -- Philipp Haselwarter ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-01-31 1:56 Date header rewrite Lars Ingebrigtsen ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2011-01-31 13:49 ` Greg Troxel @ 2011-02-01 6:05 ` Michael Welsh Duggan 2011-02-01 6:14 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-02-01 8:11 ` Francis Moreau 4 siblings, 1 reply; 39+ messages in thread From: Michael Welsh Duggan @ 2011-02-01 6:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > As I hinted earlier, I've now totally rewritten the way date headers are > customised. You can now have as many Date headers as you like. > > I've removed a slew of date customisation variables, but it should still > respect the legacy variables. (Sort of.) I really like the new combined-lapsed. The max-segments for the lapsed part is hard-coded at 3 currently. I find that 2 is preferable for me, by far. I can obviously change the hard-coded value (and have in my own branch), but maybe this should be customizable? Just an opinion. -- Michael Welsh Duggan (md5i@md5i.com) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-02-01 6:05 ` Michael Welsh Duggan @ 2011-02-01 6:14 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-02-01 17:05 ` James Cloos 2011-02-01 18:54 ` Greg Troxel 0 siblings, 2 replies; 39+ messages in thread From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-02-01 6:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Michael Welsh Duggan <md5i@md5i.com> writes: > I really like the new combined-lapsed. The max-segments for the lapsed > part is hard-coded at 3 currently. I find that 2 is preferable for me, > by far. I can obviously change the hard-coded value (and have in my own > branch), but maybe this should be customizable? Just an opinion. I'm not sure what the defaults should be. I mean, most people seem to dislike the seconds, so those might possibly go. But it's been necessary to have them switched on to be able to debug the various "why is the cursor moving around when stuff updates?" bugs. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-02-01 6:14 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-02-01 17:05 ` James Cloos 2011-02-02 11:18 ` Francis Moreau 2011-02-01 18:54 ` Greg Troxel 1 sibling, 1 reply; 39+ messages in thread From: James Cloos @ 2011-02-01 17:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding >>>>> "LI" == Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: LI> I'm not sure what the defaults should be. I mean, most people seem LI> to dislike the seconds, so those might possibly go. As long as it is static, I don't understand the aversion to seconds. But the dynamic updates are unwelcome. My second gnus runs the emacs trunk code; on that one I found that I like the combined lapsed format. But only /static/! -JimC -- James Cloos <cloos@jhcloos.com> OpenPGP: 1024D/ED7DAEA6 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-02-01 17:05 ` James Cloos @ 2011-02-02 11:18 ` Francis Moreau 0 siblings, 0 replies; 39+ messages in thread From: Francis Moreau @ 2011-02-02 11:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: James Cloos; +Cc: ding James Cloos <cloos@jhcloos.com> writes: [...] > My second gnus runs the emacs trunk code; on that one I found that I > like the combined lapsed format. But only /static/! I think a lot (most) of people agree with that. I would really like to understand why Lars wants to make it dynamic... If the reason is: Gnus is the only one to do that, then it should be taken as a big hint. -- Francis ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-02-01 6:14 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-02-01 17:05 ` James Cloos @ 2011-02-01 18:54 ` Greg Troxel 2011-02-03 4:13 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 39+ messages in thread From: Greg Troxel @ 2011-02-01 18:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1739 bytes --] Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > I'm not sure what the defaults should be. I mean, most people seem to > dislike the seconds, so those might possibly go. But it's been > necessary to have them switched on to be able to debug the various "why > is the cursor moving around when stuff updates?" bugs. I generally am a liking-seconds type; I have them displayed on the clock on various taskbars. But that's about the current time, once, where I asked for it, and I don't find any value in knowing whether someone wrote a message, for example, 11 hours, 24 minutes, and 17 seconds ago vs just 11 hours and 24 minutes ago. Also, I know you said that omiting values with 0 was in your opinion a feature, but after mulling it over I now feel very strongly that it's a bug. Leaving it out has two problems: * The user can't disambiguate between "17 minutes, 0 seconds", and "17 minutes" (rounded) * frequently, and for brief periods (1 min, 1s), the display blinks in a visually distracting manner as ", 59 seconds" disappears and is replaced by ", 1 second". I realize these two opinions are preference, so it makes sense to defcustom them. Then we could see how most people feel. So I propose: variable to say how many date/time components to show. Currently this is 3, but I would default to 2. variable to suppress other than MSD when zero. currently this is t, but I would argue the default should be nil. perhaps: minimum time component to ever show. could be seconds to get current behavior, or minutes to let one have 3 components but drop to 1 or 2 for recent mail. I think that with the above, most people will find the default display of the Date line to be reasonable. [-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 194 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-02-01 18:54 ` Greg Troxel @ 2011-02-03 4:13 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-02-03 11:50 ` Greg Troxel 0 siblings, 1 reply; 39+ messages in thread From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-02-03 4:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Greg Troxel <gdt@work.lexort.com> writes: > So I propose: > > variable to say how many date/time components to show. Currently this > is 3, but I would default to 2. > > variable to suppress other than MSD when zero. currently this is t, > but I would argue the default should be nil. I think this is way, way more customisation than what a frivolous feature like this warrants. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-02-03 4:13 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-02-03 11:50 ` Greg Troxel 0 siblings, 0 replies; 39+ messages in thread From: Greg Troxel @ 2011-02-03 11:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 682 bytes --] Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > Greg Troxel <gdt@work.lexort.com> writes: > >> So I propose: >> >> variable to say how many date/time components to show. Currently this >> is 3, but I would default to 2. >> >> variable to suppress other than MSD when zero. currently this is t, >> but I would argue the default should be nil. > > I think this is way, way more customisation than what a frivolous > feature like this warrants. The problem is that the hard-coded defaults you chose are viewed as too flashy by many. So if you don't suppress zero MSD, and change to 2 components then probably there wouldn't be critical mass in wanting it more complicated. [-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 194 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-01-31 1:56 Date header rewrite Lars Ingebrigtsen ` (3 preceding siblings ...) 2011-02-01 6:05 ` Michael Welsh Duggan @ 2011-02-01 8:11 ` Francis Moreau 2011-02-01 8:23 ` Robert Pluim 4 siblings, 1 reply; 39+ messages in thread From: Francis Moreau @ 2011-02-01 8:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > As I hinted earlier, I've now totally rewritten the way date headers are > customised. You can now have as many Date headers as you like. > > I've removed a slew of date customisation variables, but it should still > respect the legacy variables. (Sort of.) With latest git as of this writing (head is at dd811978420ac00e1e71c00b9291aa667950afbf) This doing this doesn't work: (setq gnus-article-date-headers 'combined-elapsed) (setq gnus-article-update-date-headers nil) => article-make-date-line: Unknown conversion type: combined-elapsed Also this doesn't: (setq gnus-article-date-headers 'lapsed) (setq gnus-article-update-date-headers nil) => the seconds are still updated... -- Francis ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-02-01 8:11 ` Francis Moreau @ 2011-02-01 8:23 ` Robert Pluim 2011-02-01 9:17 ` Francis Moreau 2011-02-01 10:09 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 2 replies; 39+ messages in thread From: Robert Pluim @ 2011-02-01 8:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Francis Moreau <francis.moro@gmail.com> writes: > Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > >> As I hinted earlier, I've now totally rewritten the way date headers are >> customised. You can now have as many Date headers as you like. >> >> I've removed a slew of date customisation variables, but it should still >> respect the legacy variables. (Sort of.) > > With latest git as of this writing (head is at > dd811978420ac00e1e71c00b9291aa667950afbf) > > > This doing this doesn't work: > > (setq gnus-article-date-headers 'combined-elapsed) > (setq gnus-article-update-date-headers nil) > > => article-make-date-line: Unknown conversion type: combined-elapsed It's 'combined-lapsed' (no e) > Also this doesn't: > > (setq gnus-article-date-headers 'lapsed) > (setq gnus-article-update-date-headers nil) > > => the seconds are still updated... Yes, I see the same thing. I'm waiting for Lars to fix it. Robert ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-02-01 8:23 ` Robert Pluim @ 2011-02-01 9:17 ` Francis Moreau 2011-02-01 10:06 ` Tassilo Horn ` (2 more replies) 2011-02-01 10:09 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 3 replies; 39+ messages in thread From: Francis Moreau @ 2011-02-01 9:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes: > Francis Moreau <francis.moro@gmail.com> writes: > >> Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: >> >>> As I hinted earlier, I've now totally rewritten the way date headers are >>> customised. You can now have as many Date headers as you like. >>> >>> I've removed a slew of date customisation variables, but it should still >>> respect the legacy variables. (Sort of.) >> >> With latest git as of this writing (head is at >> dd811978420ac00e1e71c00b9291aa667950afbf) >> >> >> This doing this doesn't work: >> >> (setq gnus-article-date-headers 'combined-elapsed) >> (setq gnus-article-update-date-headers nil) >> >> => article-make-date-line: Unknown conversion type: combined-elapsed > > It's 'combined-lapsed' (no e) > That's not what I'm seeing in the doc and changing it still fails: => article-make-date-line: Unknown conversion type: combine-lapsed Thanks -- Francis ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-02-01 9:17 ` Francis Moreau @ 2011-02-01 10:06 ` Tassilo Horn 2011-02-01 10:11 ` Francis Moreau 2011-02-01 10:19 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-02-01 10:08 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-02-01 10:08 ` Robert Pluim 2 siblings, 2 replies; 39+ messages in thread From: Tassilo Horn @ 2011-02-01 10:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Francis Moreau <francis.moro@gmail.com> writes: Hi Francis, >>> (setq gnus-article-date-headers 'combined-elapsed) >>> (setq gnus-article-update-date-headers nil) >>> >>> => article-make-date-line: Unknown conversion type: combined-elapsed >> >> It's 'combined-lapsed' (no e) > > That's not what I'm seeing in the doc ,----[ (info "(gnus)Customizing Articles") ] | `gnus-treat-date (head)' | This will transform/add date headers according to the | `gnus-article-date-headers' variable. This is a list of Date | headers to display. The formats available are: | | [...] | | `combined-elapsed' | Both the original date header and a (shortened) elapsed time. `---- Indeed, it seems the docs are wrong. > and changing it still fails: > > => article-make-date-line: Unknown conversion type: combine-lapsed Now you've missed the d in combine_d_. ;-) Bye, Tassilo -- Sent from my Emacs ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-02-01 10:06 ` Tassilo Horn @ 2011-02-01 10:11 ` Francis Moreau 2011-02-01 10:19 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 0 replies; 39+ messages in thread From: Francis Moreau @ 2011-02-01 10:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Tassilo Horn; +Cc: ding Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> writes: > Francis Moreau <francis.moro@gmail.com> writes: > > Hi Francis, > >>>> (setq gnus-article-date-headers 'combined-elapsed) >>>> (setq gnus-article-update-date-headers nil) >>>> >>>> => article-make-date-line: Unknown conversion type: combined-elapsed >>> >>> It's 'combined-lapsed' (no e) >> >> That's not what I'm seeing in the doc > > ,----[ (info "(gnus)Customizing Articles") ] > | `gnus-treat-date (head)' > | This will transform/add date headers according to the > | `gnus-article-date-headers' variable. This is a list of Date > | headers to display. The formats available are: > | > | [...] > | > | `combined-elapsed' > | Both the original date header and a (shortened) elapsed time. > `---- > > Indeed, it seems the docs are wrong. > >> and changing it still fails: >> >> => article-make-date-line: Unknown conversion type: combine-lapsed > > Now you've missed the d in combine_d_. ;-) :) Thanks. -- Francis ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-02-01 10:06 ` Tassilo Horn 2011-02-01 10:11 ` Francis Moreau @ 2011-02-01 10:19 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 0 replies; 39+ messages in thread From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-02-01 10:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> writes: > Indeed, it seems the docs are wrong. Fixed and pushed. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-02-01 9:17 ` Francis Moreau 2011-02-01 10:06 ` Tassilo Horn @ 2011-02-01 10:08 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-02-01 10:11 ` Francis Moreau 2011-02-01 10:08 ` Robert Pluim 2 siblings, 1 reply; 39+ messages in thread From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-02-01 10:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Francis Moreau <francis.moro@gmail.com> writes: >> It's 'combined-lapsed' (no e) > > That's not what I'm seeing in the doc and changing it still fails: > > => article-make-date-line: Unknown conversion type: combine-lapsed It's `combined-lapsed' (you missed the d). -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-02-01 10:08 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-02-01 10:11 ` Francis Moreau 0 siblings, 0 replies; 39+ messages in thread From: Francis Moreau @ 2011-02-01 10:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > Francis Moreau <francis.moro@gmail.com> writes: > >>> It's 'combined-lapsed' (no e) >> >> That's not what I'm seeing in the doc and changing it still fails: >> >> => article-make-date-line: Unknown conversion type: combine-lapsed > > It's `combined-lapsed' (you missed the d). Ok thanks -- Francis ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-02-01 9:17 ` Francis Moreau 2011-02-01 10:06 ` Tassilo Horn 2011-02-01 10:08 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-02-01 10:08 ` Robert Pluim 2 siblings, 0 replies; 39+ messages in thread From: Robert Pluim @ 2011-02-01 10:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Francis Moreau <francis.moro@gmail.com> writes: > Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes: > >> Francis Moreau <francis.moro@gmail.com> writes: >> >>> Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: >>> >>>> As I hinted earlier, I've now totally rewritten the way date headers are >>>> customised. You can now have as many Date headers as you like. >>>> >>>> I've removed a slew of date customisation variables, but it should still >>>> respect the legacy variables. (Sort of.) >>> >>> With latest git as of this writing (head is at >>> dd811978420ac00e1e71c00b9291aa667950afbf) >>> >>> >>> This doing this doesn't work: >>> >>> (setq gnus-article-date-headers 'combined-elapsed) >>> (setq gnus-article-update-date-headers nil) >>> >>> => article-make-date-line: Unknown conversion type: combined-elapsed >> >> It's 'combined-lapsed' (no e) >> > > That's not what I'm seeing in the doc and changing it still fails: > > => article-make-date-line: Unknown conversion type: combine-lapsed You've dropped the 'd' this time :) Looks like the info docs are wrong. Doc in the code say: `gnus-article-date-headers' is a variable declared in Lisp. -- loaded from "gnus-art" Value: (local lapsed) Documentation: A list of Date header formats to display. Valid formats are `ut' (universal time), `local' (local time zone), `english' (readable English), `lapsed' (elapsed time), `combined-lapsed' (both the original date and the elapsed time), `original' (the original date header), `iso8601' (ISO8601 format), and `user-defined' (a user-defined format defined by the `gnus-article-time-format' variable). You have as many date headers as you want in the article buffer. Some of these headers are updated automatically. See `gnus-article-update-date-headers' for details. Robert ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-02-01 8:23 ` Robert Pluim 2011-02-01 9:17 ` Francis Moreau @ 2011-02-01 10:09 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-02-01 11:15 ` Robert Pluim 1 sibling, 1 reply; 39+ messages in thread From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-02-01 10:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes: >> (setq gnus-article-update-date-headers nil) >> >> => the seconds are still updated... > > Yes, I see the same thing. I'm waiting for Lars to fix it. If you put the setq in your .gnus.el and restart Gnus, does it work? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-02-01 10:09 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-02-01 11:15 ` Robert Pluim 2011-02-03 4:10 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 39+ messages in thread From: Robert Pluim @ 2011-02-01 11:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes: > >>> (setq gnus-article-update-date-headers nil) >>> >>> => the seconds are still updated... >> >> Yes, I see the same thing. I'm waiting for Lars to fix it. > > If you put the setq in your .gnus.el and restart Gnus, does it work? No, it only takes effect if I restart emacs. Robert ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
* Re: Date header rewrite 2011-02-01 11:15 ` Robert Pluim @ 2011-02-03 4:10 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 39+ messages in thread From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2011-02-03 4:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes: >>>> (setq gnus-article-update-date-headers nil) [...] > No, it only takes effect if I restart emacs. Hm. Well, I guess Gnus could just stop the timer if that variable is nil. Fixed now. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 39+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2011-02-03 11:50 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 39+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2011-01-31 1:56 Date header rewrite Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-01-31 8:07 ` Francis Moreau 2011-01-31 9:38 ` Rupert Swarbrick 2011-01-31 10:34 ` Robert Pluim 2011-01-31 10:43 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-01-31 11:30 ` Robert Pluim 2011-02-01 1:55 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-02-01 7:42 ` Robert Pluim 2011-02-01 19:23 ` Eric S Fraga 2011-02-03 4:14 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-01-31 13:49 ` Greg Troxel 2011-02-01 1:07 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-02-01 1:47 ` Richard Riley 2011-02-01 2:04 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-02-01 2:25 ` Richard Riley 2011-02-01 2:38 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-02-01 2:44 ` Richard Riley 2011-02-01 3:10 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-02-01 6:41 ` Richard Riley 2011-02-01 18:23 ` Philipp Haselwarter 2011-02-01 6:05 ` Michael Welsh Duggan 2011-02-01 6:14 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-02-01 17:05 ` James Cloos 2011-02-02 11:18 ` Francis Moreau 2011-02-01 18:54 ` Greg Troxel 2011-02-03 4:13 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-02-03 11:50 ` Greg Troxel 2011-02-01 8:11 ` Francis Moreau 2011-02-01 8:23 ` Robert Pluim 2011-02-01 9:17 ` Francis Moreau 2011-02-01 10:06 ` Tassilo Horn 2011-02-01 10:11 ` Francis Moreau 2011-02-01 10:19 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-02-01 10:08 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-02-01 10:11 ` Francis Moreau 2011-02-01 10:08 ` Robert Pluim 2011-02-01 10:09 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2011-02-01 11:15 ` Robert Pluim 2011-02-03 4:10 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
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