[Pb]: Denied access when unplugged ?

[Pb]: Denied access when unplugged ?

[Xavier Maillard]

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Hi,

I have a problem here with _one_ server with nntp backend.

It is the primary select method (nntp news.nerim.net). All my nntp
servers should be agentized but this one seems to 'loose' its agentized
status whenever it is unplugged.

Furthermore, when working in train (so not connected), in the server
buffer this server is diplayed with a 'denied' word.

I have another nntp backend here which works just as expected: offline
when I am offline and it is agentized. I still can access it when
offline.

What should I check to correct this problem ? In fact when Gnus starts,
it always indicates me that news.nerim.net is not available and ask
whether I want to continue or not. I can't figure out what to correct.
I do remember clearly it has already happened before but it should have
disappeared without any intervention by me.

Any idea ?

zeDek
-- 
.o.   Xavier Maillard            Tel: +33 6 62 59 68 62
..o  
ooo   


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Agent weirdness (was: [Pb]: Denied access when unplugged ?)

[Xavier Maillard]

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On 12 Jan 2004, Xavier Maillard<zedek@gnu-rox.org> said:
> Hi,
>
> I have a problem here with _one_ server with nntp backend.
>
> It is the primary select method (nntp news.nerim.net). All my nntp
> servers should be agentized but this one seems to 'loose' its
> agentized status whenever it is unplugged.
>
> Furthermore, when working in train (so not connected), in the server
> buffer this server is diplayed with a 'denied' word.
>
> I have another nntp backend here which works just as expected: offline
> when I am offline and it is agentized. I still can access it when
> offline.
>
> What should I check to correct this problem ? In fact when Gnus
> starts, it always indicates me that news.nerim.net is not available
> and ask whether I want to continue or not. I can't figure out what to
> correct. I do remember clearly it has already happened before but it
> should have disappeared without any intervention by me.
>
> Any idea ?
>
> zeDek

Ok I did investigations and here is something I saw. Whenever I have a
network connection (ie I have my eth0 up), I can enter into an
agentized group (with agentized/cached articles). If a group doesn't
have any agentized article it fails which sounds good to me.

Now the weirdness, If for a reason or another, I switch off the network
connection, Gnus:

* fails to start correctly arguing it can't open nntp '.'
  (news.nerim.net)
* if I continue, and try to enter a group containing agentized
  articles, it fails too

Giving the fact that when in train I don't have any network connection,
I won't be able to read agentized newsgroups.

Is this the default behaviour ? I suppose it is not but it acts this
way here.

AFAIK, I followed Gnus manual part on Agent and just checked I did
things correctly so...

I really need help with that :)

Why does Gnus complain it can't open news.nerim.net when it is supposed
to be _unplugged_ ??

Thank you,

Regards,

zeDek
-- 
.o.  | Hacker wonderland
..o  |
ooo  | 


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Re: Agent weirdness

[Kevin Greiner]

Xavier Maillard <zedek@gnu-rox.org> writes:

> On 12 Jan 2004, Xavier Maillard<zedek@gnu-rox.org> said:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have a problem here with _one_ server with nntp backend.
>>
>> It is the primary select method (nntp news.nerim.net). All my nntp
>> servers should be agentized but this one seems to 'loose' its
>> agentized status whenever it is unplugged.
>>
>> Furthermore, when working in train (so not connected), in the server
>> buffer this server is diplayed with a 'denied' word.
>>
>> I have another nntp backend here which works just as expected: offline
>> when I am offline and it is agentized. I still can access it when
>> offline.
>>
>> What should I check to correct this problem ? In fact when Gnus
>> starts, it always indicates me that news.nerim.net is not available
>> and ask whether I want to continue or not. I can't figure out what to
>> correct. I do remember clearly it has already happened before but it
>> should have disappeared without any intervention by me.
>>
>> Any idea ?
>>
>> zeDek
>

OK, let's start with what version of gnus are you running?

> Ok I did investigations and here is something I saw. Whenever I have a
> network connection (ie I have my eth0 up), I can enter into an
> agentized group (with agentized/cached articles). If a group doesn't
> have any agentized article it fails which sounds good to me.

Are you running plugged, or unplugged, during this test.


> Now the weirdness, If for a reason or another, I switch off the network
> connection, Gnus:
>
> * fails to start correctly arguing it can't open nntp '.'
>   (news.nerim.net)
> * if I continue, and try to enter a group containing agentized
>   articles, it fails too
>
> Giving the fact that when in train I don't have any network connection,
> I won't be able to read agentized newsgroups.

Try using (gnus-unplugged) to start gnus.

>
> Is this the default behaviour ? I suppose it is not but it acts this
> way here.
>
> AFAIK, I followed Gnus manual part on Agent and just checked I did
> things correctly so...
>
> I really need help with that :)
>
> Why does Gnus complain it can't open news.nerim.net when it is supposed
> to be _unplugged_ ??

Being plugged, or unplugged, has very little to do with the
availability of a network connection.

If I am plugged but have no network connection, gnus will fail while
attempting to open a connection.  This will result in the server being
marked in accordance with gnus-server-unopen-status (by the way, what
do you have this set to?).  Depending upon gnus-server-unopen-status,
the server may be marked as either denied, offline, or you may be
prompted as to what to do.

If I am unplugged but have a network connection, gnus will immediately
mark all agentized servers as being offline while unagentized servers
will be marked as denied.

Kevin

Re: Agent weirdness

[Xavier Maillard]

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On 13 Jan 2004, Kevin Greiner<kgreiner@xpediantsolutions.com> said:
> Xavier Maillard <zedek@gnu-rox.org> writes:

 <snip>

> OK, let's start with what version of gnus are you running?

Fresh CVS copy.

>> Ok I did investigations and here is something I saw. Whenever I have
>> a network connection (ie I have my eth0 up), I can enter into an
>> agentized group (with agentized/cached articles). If a group doesn't
>> have any agentized article it fails which sounds good to me.
>
> Are you running plugged, or unplugged, during this test.

I have set in my .gnus: (setq gnus-plugged nil) so it should tell gnus
to be unplugged at startup.

>> Now the weirdness, If for a reason or another, I switch off the
>> network connection, Gnus:
>>
>> * fails to start correctly arguing it can't open nntp '.'
>> (news.nerim.net)
>> * if I continue, and try to enter a group containing agentized
>> articles, it fails too
>>
>> Giving the fact that when in train I don't have any network
>> connection, I won't be able to read agentized newsgroups.
>
> Try using (gnus-unplugged) to start gnus.

I just did and the point is with eth0 up, there is no problem for me
but if shut the network connection and launch gnus with
'gnus-unplugged', it complains at startup not to be able to open "nntp
blah blah blah, Do you want to continue (y or n) ?". If I say y, then
the server is marked as 'denied' in the server buffer (which is normal).

>>
>> Is this the default behaviour ? I suppose it is not but it acts this
>> way here.
>>
>> AFAIK, I followed Gnus manual part on Agent and just checked I did
>> things correctly so...
>>
>> I really need help with that :)
>>
>> Why does Gnus complain it can't open news.nerim.net when it is
>> supposed to be _unplugged_ ??
>
> Being plugged, or unplugged, has very little to do with the
> availability of a network connection.

Hmm.

> If I am plugged but have no network connection, gnus will fail while
> attempting to open a connection.  This will result in the server being
> marked in accordance with gnus-server-unopen-status (by the way, what
> do you have this set to?).  Depending upon gnus-server-unopen-status,
> the server may be marked as either denied, offline, or you may be
> prompted as to what to do.

Here it is:

,----[ C-h v gnus-server-unopen-status RET ]
| gnus-server-unopen-status's value is nil
| 
| The default status if the server is not able to open.
| If the server is covered by Gnus agent, the possible values are
| `denied', set the server denied; `offline', set the server offline;
| nil, ask user.  If the server is not covered by Gnus agent, set the
| server denied.
| 
| You can customize this variable.
| 
| Defined in `gnus-int'.
| 
| [back]
`----

> If I am unplugged but have a network connection, gnus will immediately
> mark all agentized servers as being offline while unagentized servers
> will be marked as denied.

Which is the normal behavior I should expect here too :)

zeDek
-- 
  "GNU is my religion"

.O.  Xavier Maillard 
..O   Reims - France 
OOO  +33 6 62 59 68 62 


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Re: Agent weirdness

[Xavier Maillard]

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On 13 Jan 2004, Kevin Greiner<kgreiner@xpediantsolutions.com>
verbalized:

 <snip>

> OK, let's start with what version of gnus are you running?
>
>> Ok I did investigations and here is something I saw. Whenever I have
>> a network connection (ie I have my eth0 up), I can enter into an
>> agentized group (with agentized/cached articles). If a group doesn't
>> have any agentized article it fails which sounds good to me.
>
> Are you running plugged, or unplugged, during this test.
>
>> Now the weirdness, If for a reason or another, I switch off the
>> network connection, Gnus:
>>
>> * fails to start correctly arguing it can't open nntp '.'
>> (news.nerim.net)
>> * if I continue, and try to enter a group containing agentized
>> articles, it fails too
>>
>> Giving the fact that when in train I don't have any network
>> connection, I won't be able to read agentized newsgroups.
>
> Try using (gnus-unplugged) to start gnus.

I tried many times without success. Whenever my network connection
disappear, Gnus complains. I have launched a ntrace on gnus to see what
is going on. What I 've seen is funny !

Even explicitly telling Gnus not to go plugged, it tries to connect to
my nntp server !!

Here is the log of a session supposed not to be plugged, with nntp
backend agentized:

,----
| --- SIGALRM (Alarm clock) @ 0 (0) ---
| socket(PF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM, IPPROTO_IP) = 6
| connect(6, {sa_family=AF_INET, sin_port=htons(53), sin_addr=inet_addr("10.0.0.1")}, 28) = -1 ENETUNREACH (Network is unreachable)
| socket(PF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM, IPPROTO_IP) = 6
| connect(6, {sa_family=AF_INET, sin_port=htons(53), sin_addr=inet_addr("10.0.0.1")}, 28) = -1 ENETUNREACH (Network is unreachable)
| socket(PF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM, IPPROTO_IP) = 6
| connect(6, {sa_family=AF_INET, sin_port=htons(53), sin_addr=inet_addr("10.0.0.1")}, 28) = -1 ENETUNREACH (Network is unreachable)
| socket(PF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM, IPPROTO_IP) = 6
| connect(6, {sa_family=AF_INET, sin_port=htons(53), sin_addr=inet_addr("10.0.0.1")}, 28) = -1 ENETUNREACH (Network is unreachable)
| socket(PF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM, IPPROTO_IP) = 6
| connect(6, {sa_family=AF_INET, sin_port=htons(53), sin_addr=inet_addr("10.0.0.1")}, 28) = -1 ENETUNREACH (Network is unreachable)
| socket(PF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM, IPPROTO_IP) = 6
| connect(6, {sa_family=AF_INET, sin_port=htons(53), sin_addr=inet_addr("10.0.0.1")}, 28) = -1 ENETUNREACH (Network is unreachable)
| socket(PF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM, IPPROTO_IP) = 6
| connect(6, {sa_family=AF_INET, sin_port=htons(53), sin_addr=inet_addr("10.0.0.1")}, 28) = -1 ENETUNREACH (Network is unreachable)
| socket(PF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM, IPPROTO_IP) = 6
| connect(6, {sa_family=AF_INET, sin_port=htons(53), sin_addr=inet_addr("10.0.0.1")}, 28) = -1 ENETUNREACH (Network is unreachable)
| --- SIGIO (I/O possible) @ 0 (0) ---
| --- SIGIO (I/O possible) @ 0 (0) ---
| --- SIGIO (I/O possible) @ 0 (0) ---
`----

As you surely see, Gnus (or Emacs) is attempting to connect whereas my
current configuration doesn't say so:

,----
| (message "##### Not yet in agentized mode")
| (setq gnus-select-method '(nntp "news.nerim.net"))
| (setq gnus-server-unopen-status 'offline)
| (setq gnus-plugged nil)
| ;;(setq gnus-agent t)
| (message "Fin du chargement...")
`----

Note that the configuration above is my default and has *always* worked
this way except for the `gnus-server-unopen-status` variable which was
'nil'. 

>> Is this the default behaviour ? I suppose it is not but it acts this
>> way here.
>>
>> AFAIK, I followed Gnus manual part on Agent and just checked I did
>> things correctly so...
>>
>> I really need help with that :)
>>
>> Why does Gnus complain it can't open news.nerim.net when it is
>> supposed to be _unplugged_ ??
>
> Being plugged, or unplugged, has very little to do with the
> availability of a network connection.

Hmm, my opinion on that is that gnus-open-server function doesn't
work for me at that time. Dunno if it is related to the latest patch you
talked about before but what is sure is that with Gnus 5.10.1 version
all worked like a charm here :)

I am about to give up since I don't have more time to spend on this. I
will try to 'rollback' that patch (applied against 5.10.3) and see how
all is going on.

Regards,

zeDek

P.S: sorry for long lines
-- 
Xavier Maillard
http://www.gnu-rox.org/~zedek/cgi-bin/wiki.pl


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Re: Agent weirdness

[Kevin Greiner]

Xavier Maillard <zedek@gnu-rox.org> writes:

> On 13 Jan 2004, Kevin Greiner<kgreiner@xpediantsolutions.com>
> verbalized:
>
>  <snip>
>
>> OK, let's start with what version of gnus are you running?
>>
>>> Ok I did investigations and here is something I saw. Whenever I have
>>> a network connection (ie I have my eth0 up), I can enter into an
>>> agentized group (with agentized/cached articles). If a group doesn't
>>> have any agentized article it fails which sounds good to me.
>>
>> Are you running plugged, or unplugged, during this test.
>>
>>> Now the weirdness, If for a reason or another, I switch off the
>>> network connection, Gnus:
>>>
>>> * fails to start correctly arguing it can't open nntp '.'
>>> (news.nerim.net)
>>> * if I continue, and try to enter a group containing agentized
>>> articles, it fails too
>>>
>>> Giving the fact that when in train I don't have any network
>>> connection, I won't be able to read agentized newsgroups.
>>
>> Try using (gnus-unplugged) to start gnus.
>
> I tried many times without success. Whenever my network connection
> disappear, Gnus complains. I have launched a ntrace on gnus to see what
> is going on. What I 've seen is funny !
>
> Even explicitly telling Gnus not to go plugged, it tries to connect to
> my nntp server !!

Now that's the behavior that I was tring to fix with the last update
to gnus-open-server.


> Here is the log of a session supposed not to be plugged, with nntp
> backend agentized:

np, I believe you.

>
> As you surely see, Gnus (or Emacs) is attempting to connect whereas my
> current configuration doesn't say so:
>
> ,----
> | (message "##### Not yet in agentized mode")
> | (setq gnus-select-method '(nntp "news.nerim.net"))
> | (setq gnus-server-unopen-status 'offline)
> | (setq gnus-plugged nil)
> | ;;(setq gnus-agent t)
> | (message "Fin du chargement...")
> `----
>
> Note that the configuration above is my default and has *always* worked
> this way except for the `gnus-server-unopen-status` variable which was
> 'nil'. 
>
>>> Is this the default behaviour ? I suppose it is not but it acts this
>>> way here.
>>>
>>> AFAIK, I followed Gnus manual part on Agent and just checked I did
>>> things correctly so...
>>>
>>> I really need help with that :)
>>>
>>> Why does Gnus complain it can't open news.nerim.net when it is
>>> supposed to be _unplugged_ ??
>>
>> Being plugged, or unplugged, has very little to do with the
>> availability of a network connection.
>
> Hmm, my opinion on that is that gnus-open-server function doesn't
> work for me at that time. Dunno if it is related to the latest patch you
> talked about before but what is sure is that with Gnus 5.10.1 version
> all worked like a charm here :)
>
> I am about to give up since I don't have more time to spend on this. I
> will try to 'rollback' that patch (applied against 5.10.3) and see how
> all is going on.

Just to let you know, prior to 5.10.3, gnus always tried to open the
server.  The plugged/unplugged status and gnus-server-unopen-status
simply controlled how it handled the connection failure.

If you have any time left for this, I appreciate your debugging
gnus-open-server.  Eval the function then execute (debug-on-entry
'gnus-open-server) before starting gnus.  The only function that you
may need to step into is gnus-get-function.  If you are unplugged and
the gnus-command-method names an agentized server, gnus-get-function
should return nnagent-open-server.  If it returns nntp-open-server
then the bug is in gnus-open-server (that's why you may need to step into it).

Kevin

Re: [Pb]: Denied access when unplugged ?

[Kevin Greiner]

Xavier Maillard <zedek@gnu-rox.org> writes:

> Hi,
>
> I have a problem here with _one_ server with nntp backend.
>
> It is the primary select method (nntp news.nerim.net). All my nntp
> servers should be agentized but this one seems to 'loose' its agentized
> status whenever it is unplugged.
>
> Furthermore, when working in train (so not connected), in the server
> buffer this server is diplayed with a 'denied' word.
>
> I have another nntp backend here which works just as expected: offline
> when I am offline and it is agentized. I still can access it when
> offline.
>
> What should I check to correct this problem ? In fact when Gnus starts,
> it always indicates me that news.nerim.net is not available and ask
> whether I want to continue or not. I can't figure out what to correct.
> I do remember clearly it has already happened before but it should have
> disappeared without any intervention by me.
>
> Any idea ?

This sounds like the server name to method conversion isn't stable.
One other person reported something like this.  Open your .newsrc.eld
file then search gnus-newsrc-alist for one of the groups subscribed
from this server.  The name of the group begins a list, look for the
next-to-last member of that list.  If this is the same problem, you
should find the string "news.nerim.net".  If you do, replace it with
the method (nntp "news.nerim.net").

There is a patch related to this in version 5.10.3 that may help.

Kevin

Re: [Pb]: Denied access when unplugged ?

[Xavier Maillard]

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On 13 Jan 2004, Kevin Greiner<kgreiner@xpediantsolutions.com>
verbalized:
> Xavier Maillard <zedek@gnu-rox.org> writes:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have a problem here with _one_ server with nntp backend.
>>
>> It is the primary select method (nntp news.nerim.net). All my nntp
>> servers should be agentized but this one seems to 'loose' its
>> agentized status whenever it is unplugged.
>>
>> Furthermore, when working in train (so not connected), in the server
>> buffer this server is diplayed with a 'denied' word.
>>
>> I have another nntp backend here which works just as expected:
>> offline when I am offline and it is agentized. I still can access it
>> when offline.
>>
>> What should I check to correct this problem ? In fact when Gnus
>> starts, it always indicates me that news.nerim.net is not available
>> and ask whether I want to continue or not. I can't figure out what to
>> correct. I do remember clearly it has already happened before but it
>> should have disappeared without any intervention by me.
>>
>> Any idea ?
>
> This sounds like the server name to method conversion isn't stable.
> One other person reported something like this.  Open your .newsrc.eld
> file then search gnus-newsrc-alist for one of the groups subscribed
> from this server.  The name of the group begins a list, look for the
> next-to-last member of that list.  If this is the same problem, you
> should find the string "news.nerim.net".  If you do, replace it with
> the method (nntp "news.nerim.net").
>
> There is a patch related to this in version 5.10.3 that may help.

Well the patch concerned, AFAIK, foreign groups whereas my problem is
related with my default nntp server and the foreign one is still
working.

What's more, my newsrc.eld file didn't contain any reference to my
nntp:news.nerim.net servers.

If I do a cat on agent/lib/servers, here is what I have:

,----[ servers ]
| ("nntp:news.nerim.net" "nntp:news.gmane.org")
`----

And according to the thread, it is supposed to be right.

Thanx,

zeDek
-- 
"sometimes i feel like we're making emacs better and better because we don't 
 know what to do with emacs once it is finished."

    -- AlexSchroeder on #emacs @OPN


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Re: [Pb]: Denied access when unplugged ?

[Xavier Maillard]

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On 13 Jan 2004, Kevin Greiner<kgreiner@xpediantsolutions.com>
verbalized:
> Xavier Maillard <zedek@gnu-rox.org> writes:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have a problem here with _one_ server with nntp backend.
>>
>> It is the primary select method (nntp news.nerim.net). All my nntp
>> servers should be agentized but this one seems to 'loose' its
>> agentized status whenever it is unplugged.
>>
>> Furthermore, when working in train (so not connected), in the server
>> buffer this server is diplayed with a 'denied' word.
>>
>> I have another nntp backend here which works just as expected:
>> offline when I am offline and it is agentized. I still can access it
>> when offline.
>>
>> What should I check to correct this problem ? In fact when Gnus
>> starts, it always indicates me that news.nerim.net is not available
>> and ask whether I want to continue or not. I can't figure out what to
>> correct. I do remember clearly it has already happened before but it
>> should have disappeared without any intervention by me.
>>
>> Any idea ?
>
> This sounds like the server name to method conversion isn't stable.
> One other person reported something like this.  Open your .newsrc.eld
> file then search gnus-newsrc-alist for one of the groups subscribed
> from this server.  The name of the group begins a list, look for the
> next-to-last member of that list.  If this is the same problem, you
> should find the string "news.nerim.net".  If you do, replace it with
> the method (nntp "news.nerim.net").
>
> There is a patch related to this in version 5.10.3 that may help.

Also not that I am set in offline mode by default using 

(setq gnus-plugged nil)

zeDek
-- 
Hito no kokoro wa kawareru mono

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