Confusion over to-list v. to-address

Confusion over to-list v. to-address

[Steven E. Harris]

[I first posted this to gnu.emacs.gnus, then realized I might stir up
 a better response here.]

I've been canceling several of my mailing list subscriptions and
moving over to the gmane equivalents. Today, for example, I realized
that the ding list is available as gmane.emacs.gnus.general. After
years of using Gnus, I'm still confused over the to-list and
to-address group parameters.

If I subscribe to a gmane newsgroup and want to participate as though
it was a mailing list, should I set to-list or to-address? The Info
section doesn't make it clear. For to-list, it says:

 If this variable is set, `gnus-mailing-list-mode' is turned on when
 entering summary buffer.

That sounds good. But to-address also sounds appropriate:

  Let's say there's a group on the server that is called `fa.4ad-l'.
  This is a real newsgroup, but the server has gotten the articles
  from a mail-to-news gateway.  Posting directly to this group is
  therefore impossible--you have to send mail to the mailing list
  address instead.

There's no substitute for experimentation. With to-list, only fresh
postings go to the right address. All other replies or follow-ups go
only to the original author. With to-address, replies and follow-ups
work mostly as expected, though still different from my "real" mailing
list groups. For the latter, follow-ups get addressed first to the
author and are copied to the list. I usually change this around
manually to avoid copying the author who is obviously subscribed as
well.

I also just noticed the "subscribed" variable. Is that part of the
solution? Please advise.

-- 
Steven E. Harris        :: seh@panix.com

Re: Confusion over to-list v. to-address

[Sam Steingold]

> * Jon Ericson <Wba.Revpfba@wcy.anfn.tbi> [2003-11-12 14:25:00 -0800]:
>
> Sam Steingold <sds@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> no posting:
>>
>> gmane.lisp.clisp.general
>> gmane.lisp.clisp.devel
>> [and maybe others]
>
> Most likely the mailing lists block non-subscribers from posting.

clisp-devel is closed, clisp-list is public, both gmane groups silently
drop postings.

> gmane.discuss is the best place to ask about Gmane.

indeed, but I have no time to pursue this beyond the to-address
workaround.  I was just replying to a message which claimed that gmane
did not need to-address.

-- 
Sam Steingold (http://www.podval.org/~sds) running w2k
<http://www.camera.org> <http://www.iris.org.il> <http://www.memri.org/>
<http://www.mideasttruth.com/> <http://www.honestreporting.com>
I don't have an attitude problem. You have a perception problem.

Re: Confusion over to-list v. to-address

[Jon Ericson]

Sam Steingold <sds@gnu.org> writes:

> no posting:
>
> gmane.lisp.clisp.general
> gmane.lisp.clisp.devel
> [and maybe others]

Most likely the mailing lists block non-subscribers from posting.
Take a look at http://gmane.org/post.php for more information.  I
hoped that http://gmane.org/info.php?group=gmane.lisp.clisp.devel
would have helpful information, but it doesn't. :(

gmane.discuss is the best place to ask about Gmane.

Jon
-- 
  But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for
  yourselves this day whom you will serve . . . But as for me and my
  household, we will serve the LORD.
  -- Joshua 24:15 (NIV)

Re: Confusion over to-list v. to-address

[Sam Steingold]

> * Steven E. Harris <fru@cnavk.pbz> [2003-11-12 13:30:04 -0800]:
>
> Sam Steingold <sds@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> I have no idea why, but gmane posting does not work with CLISP
>> newsgroups for me.
>
> That's one of the groups I read regularly. Perhaps if you can provide
> specific groups that exhibit this problem, Lars can explain why they
> don't behave as expected.

no posting:

gmane.lisp.clisp.general
gmane.lisp.clisp.devel
[and maybe others]

posting works:

gmane.emacs.gnus.general
[and maybe others]

-- 
Sam Steingold (http://www.podval.org/~sds) running w2k
<http://www.camera.org> <http://www.iris.org.il> <http://www.memri.org/>
<http://www.mideasttruth.com/> <http://www.honestreporting.com>
The program isn't debugged until the last user is dead.

Re: Confusion over to-list v. to-address

[Steven E. Harris]

Sam Steingold <sds@gnu.org> writes:

> For some groups yes, for some no.

Ouch. I just removed about ten group parameters with the posting
addresses in them.

> I have no idea why, but gmane posting does not work with CLISP
> newsgroups for me.

That's one of the groups I read regularly. Perhaps if you can provide
specific groups that exhibit this problem, Lars can explain why they
don't behave as expected.

-- 
Steven E. Harris        :: seh@panix.com

Re: Confusion over to-list v. to-address

[Sam Steingold]

> * Reiner Steib <4.hpr.03.e.f@aheshrefcnz.qr> [2003-11-12 21:16:36 +0100]:
>
> On Wed, Nov 12 2003, Steven E. Harris wrote:
>
>> If I subscr1be¹ to a gmane newsgroup and want to participate as though
>> it was a mailing list, should I set to-list or to-address? 
>
> For Gmane, you don't need either one.  Just post as usual.

For some groups yes, for some no.
I have no idea why, but gmane posting does not work with CLISP
newsgroups for me.

-- 
Sam Steingold (http://www.podval.org/~sds) running w2k
<http://www.camera.org> <http://www.iris.org.il> <http://www.memri.org/>
<http://www.mideasttruth.com/> <http://www.honestreporting.com>
I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

Re: Confusion over to-list v. to-address

[Steven E. Harris]

Reiner Steib <4.uce.03.r.s@nurfuerspam.de> writes:

> For Gmane, you don't need either one.  Just post as usual.  You have
> to confirm an authorization (for each group _once_).

Really? Wow. I can go remove a whole bunch of group parameters, then.

But what if it's not Gmane? For some other mail-to-news gateway
newsgroup (say, comp.soft-sys.ace), should I use to-list or
to-address?

> But I'm not sure if this makes sense.  I was confused about this
> stuff as well, but now I don't need it anymore. ;-)

Since posting, I did figure out that adding (subscr1bed . t) in
conjunction with

  (setq message-subscribed-address-functions
       '(gnus-find-subscribed-addresses))

enabled some different MFT behavior. The to-list v. to-address
comparison remains a mystery.

-- 
Steven E. Harris        :: seh@panix.com

Re: Confusion over to-list v. to-address

[Reiner Steib]

On Wed, Nov 12 2003, Steven E. Harris wrote:

> If I subscr1be¹ to a gmane newsgroup and want to participate as though
> it was a mailing list, should I set to-list or to-address? 

For Gmane, you don't need either one.  Just post as usual.  You have
to confirm an authorization (for each group _once_).

> With to-list, only fresh postings go to the right address. All other
> replies or follow-ups go only to the original author. With
> to-address, replies and follow-ups work mostly as expected, though
> still different from my "real" mailing list groups. For the latter,
> follow-ups get addressed first to the author and are copied to the
> list. I usually change this around manually to avoid copying the
> author who is obviously subscr1bed as well.

See the thread "follow-up & CC"
<URL:http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/54754>.

> I also just noticed the "subscr1bed" variable. Is that part of the
> solution? Please advise.

Before Gmane started to generate appropriate Mail-Followup-To headers,
I used this:

(setq
 gnus-parameter-to-list-alist
 '(("gmane.emacs.gnus.general" "ding@gnus.org")
   ;; [ other entries ]
   ("gnus.gnus-bug" "bugs@gnus.org"))
 gnus-parameter-to-address-alist gnus-parameter-to-list-alist
 message-subscribed-addresses
 (mapcar (lambda (elem) (car (cdr elem)))
	 gnus-parameter-to-list-alist))

But I'm not sure if this makes sense.  I was confused about this stuff
as well, but now I don't need it anymore. ;-)

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- PGP key available via WWW   http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Confusion over to-list v. to-address

[Steven E. Harris]

[I first posted this to gnu.emacs.gnus, then realized I might stir up
 a better response here.]

I've been canceling several of my mailing list subscriptions and
moving over to the gmane equivalents. Today, for example, I realized
that the ding list is available as gmane.emacs.gnus.general. After
years of using Gnus, I'm still confused over the to-list and
to-address group parameters.

If I subscr1be¹ to a gmane newsgroup and want to participate as though
it was a mailing list, should I set to-list or to-address? The Info
section doesn't make it clear. For to-list, it says:

 If this variable is set, `gnus-mailing-list-mode' is turned on when
 entering summary buffer.

That sounds good. But to-address also sounds appropriate:

  Let's say there's a group on the server that is called `fa.4ad-l'.
  This is a real newsgroup, but the server has gotten the articles
  from a mail-to-news gateway.  Posting directly to this group is
  therefore impossible--you have to send mail to the mailing list
  address instead.

There's no substitute for experimentation. With to-list, only fresh
postings go to the right address. All other replies or follow-ups go
only to the original author. With to-address, replies and follow-ups
work mostly as expected, though still different from my "real" mailing
list groups. For the latter, follow-ups get addressed first to the
author and are copied to the list. I usually change this around
manually to avoid copying the author who is obviously subscr1bed as
well.

I also just noticed the "subscr1bed" variable. Is that part of the
solution? Please advise.


Footnotes: 
¹ Munged i->1 to make it past the GLOBAL ADMIN BODY filter, as I'm not
  sure if this list actually has a moderator to approve my stalled
  original post. Now I feel like a spammer.

-- 
Steven E. Harris        :: seh@panix.com