Message buffers associated with files?

Message buffers associated with files?

[Shane Holder]

Long ago, before message.el there was a feature I liked in which when
you replied to a message, the buffer created would be associated with
a file so you could save the message just by using C-x C-s.  I was
told that this would be re-integrated into rgnus, but I can't find it.
Is it still in the works, I'm just blind, and can't find it, or has
that feature been nixed?

Thanks,
Shane

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Shane Holder <holder@mordor.rsn.hp.com> writes:

> Long ago, before message.el there was a feature I liked in which when
> you replied to a message, the buffer created would be associated with
> a file so you could save the message just by using C-x C-s.  I was
> told that this would be re-integrated into rgnus, but I can't find it.
> Is it still in the works, I'm just blind, and can't find it, or has
> that feature been nixed?

It has still to be written.  Maybe I'll put it off until, uhm, Mango
Gnus. 

-- 
  "Yes.  The journey through the human heart 
     would have to wait until some other time."

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no>:

> It has still to be written.  Maybe I'll put it off until, uhm, Mango
> Gnus.

Were you drinking mango tea, or eating a mango, as you wrote this?

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> writes:

> >>>>> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no>:
> 
> > It has still to be written.  Maybe I'll put it off until, uhm, Mango
> > Gnus.
> 
> Were you drinking mango tea, or eating a mango, as you wrote this?

Nope.

The first Gnus was named after a sound; the second after a month; and
the third after a color.  The fourth will therefore have to be named
after a fruit or vegetable.  It's logical.

Banana Gnus, Potato Gnus, Apple Gnus, Orange Gnus, Pepper Gnus,
Pear Gnus, Cucumber Gnus and Radish Gnus all lack a certain
jennesequa.  So I started thinking more about exotic fruits -- Kiwi
Gnus, Mango Gnus or Papaya Gnus.  Mango Gnus sounds sweet.

I'm still open to suggestions, though.  It's not too late to prevent
this!  Yet!

-- 
  "Yes.  The journey through the human heart 
     would have to wait until some other time."

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Nathanael Makarevitch]

>>>>> "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:

 Lars> Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> writes:

 >> > It has still to be written.  Maybe I'll put it  off until, uhm, Mango
 >> Gnus.

 >> Were you drinking mango tea, or eating a mango, as you wrote this?

 [ ... ]

 Lars> Banana Gnus, Potato Gnus, Apple Gnus, Orange Gnus, Pepper Gnus, Pear
 Lars> Gnus, Cucumber  Gnus and Radish  Gnus all lack a certain jennesequa.

ROTFL :-))
this is the phonetic form of the french "je ne sais quoi" which is,
litteraly "I do not know what" meaning exactly what you did intend.

 Lars> So I started  thinking more about exotic fruits  -- Kiwi Gnus, Mango
 Lars> Gnus or Papaya Gnus.  Mango Gnus sounds sweet.

"nannies for newsgroups" is a good idea but I think that some people
will think, if they receive only one message, that its states a non
standard opinion.
success also depends upon the form (friendliness and clarity) of your std
message.

I had a a project of a function for Gnus wich will "'zamine" the current
article and automagically generate the draft of an email to the author with
std paragraph explaining why one may not use long sigs, long lines, bad
"From" address ...

those approaches are nearly braindead, in fact, because all newsreaders (or
newsposting agents) must IMHO check this and warn (or bounce) at posting
time. but things are not perfect :-)

 Lars> I'm still open to suggestions, though.  It's not too late to prevent
 Lars> this!  Yet!

here is mine: "jennesequa" :-))

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no>:

> Banana Gnus, Potato Gnus, Apple Gnus, Orange Gnus, Pepper Gnus,
> Pear Gnus, Cucumber Gnus and Radish Gnus all lack a certain
> jennesequa.  

"...but I don't know what..."

I'm partial to Potato Gnus.  Has a nice, boring, Norwegian, down to
earth feel to it.

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Jost Krieger]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 61 bytes --]

How about "Chili Gnus", follows nicely after Red Gnus.

Jost

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--
Jost Krieger, Postmaster, Rechenzentrum der Ruhr-Universität Bochum
Jost.Krieger@rz.ruhr-uni-bochum.de

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Lars Balker Rasmussen]

Jost Krieger <Jost.Krieger@rz.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:
> How about "Chili Gnus", follows nicely after Red Gnus.

A good, hot chili is indeed a great thing on these cold September
evenings, and quite frankly, a good, hot chili makes me go `ding' all
over.

Yup, it all adds up.

(What's next, Tequila Gnus?)
-- 
Lars Balker Rasmussen                                           - Duck!
<URL:http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~gnort/>                           - Where!?

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Jack Vinson]

>>>>> "LMI" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:

LMI> Banana Gnus, Potato Gnus, Apple Gnus, Orange Gnus, Pepper Gnus,
LMI> Pear Gnus, Cucumber Gnus and Radish Gnus all lack a certain
LMI> jennesequa.  So I started thinking more about exotic fruits -- Kiwi
LMI> Gnus, Mango Gnus or Papaya Gnus.  Mango Gnus sounds sweet.

What about "Relish Gnus."  It can take on several meanings.  :-)

Jack

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[William Perry]

Lars Balker Rasmussen writes:
>Jost Krieger <Jost.Krieger@rz.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:
>> How about "Chili Gnus", follows nicely after Red Gnus.
>
>A good, hot chili is indeed a great thing on these cold September
>evenings, and quite frankly, a good, hot chili makes me go `ding' all
>over.
>
>Yup, it all adds up.
>
>(What's next, Tequila Gnus?)

  Hold the lime though.  Real lushes use GNUs with no chaser. :)

-Bill P.

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Colin Rafferty]

Nathanael Makarevitch writes:

> I had a a project of a function for Gnus wich will "'zamine" the current
> article and automagically generate the draft of an email to the author with
> std paragraph explaining why one may not use long sigs, long lines, bad
> "From" address ...

To whom would you send the nanny-mail for a bad "From" address?

-- 
Colin

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Matt Pharr]

Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> writes:
> >>>>> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no>:
> 
> > Banana Gnus, Potato Gnus, Apple Gnus, Orange Gnus, Pepper Gnus, Pear
> >Gnus, Cucumber Gnus and Radish Gnus all lack a certain jennesequa.
> 
> "...but I don't know what..."
> 
> I'm partial to Potato Gnus.  Has a nice, boring, Norwegian, down to earth
> feel to it.

Lutefisk Gnus! Sure it's fish and not vegitable, but it's exotic yet boring
and Norwegian...

If that doesn't fly, I vote mango.

-matt
-- 
Matt Pharr | mmp@lux.stanford.edu | <URL:http://www-graphics.stanford.edu/~mmp>

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Nathanael Makarevitch <Nathanael.Makarevitch@ifp.fr> writes:

>  Lars> Banana Gnus, Potato Gnus, Apple Gnus, Orange Gnus, Pepper Gnus, Pear
>  Lars> Gnus, Cucumber  Gnus and Radish  Gnus all lack a certain jennesequa.
> 
> ROTFL :-))
> this is the phonetic form of the french "je ne sais quoi" which is,
> litteraly "I do not know what" meaning exactly what you did intend.

:-)  Yes, I know.  I think the spelling "jennesequa" has a certain,
uhm, jeg vet ikke helt hva.

> "nannies for newsgroups" is a good idea but I think that some people
> will think, if they receive only one message, that its states a non
> standard opinion.
> success also depends upon the form (friendliness and clarity) of your std
> message.

Yup.  The standard message is very non-confrontational.  It should
perhaps include an URL of a document that states more fully why
massive crossposting is a bad idea.  Does anybody have an URL of a
nice, comprehensible Nettiquette thingie?

>  Lars> I'm still open to suggestions, though.  It's not too late to prevent
>  Lars> this!  Yet!
> 
> here is mine: "jennesequa" :-))

"Jennesequa Gnus" does have a certain, well, I don't know what...  :-)

-- 
  "Yes.  The journey through the human heart 
     would have to wait until some other time."

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Jack Vinson <jvinson@cheux.ecs.umass.edu> writes:

> What about "Relish Gnus."  It can take on several meanings.  :-)

Yes, it sounds nice...  What is "relish", though?  Sounds kinda salady
to me, but I can't quite remember what it is exactly...

-- 
  "Yes.  The journey through the human heart 
     would have to wait until some other time."

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Lars Balker Rasmussen <gnort@daimi.aau.dk> writes:

> Jost Krieger <Jost.Krieger@rz.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:
> > How about "Chili Gnus", follows nicely after Red Gnus.
> 
> A good, hot chili is indeed a great thing on these cold September
> evenings, and quite frankly, a good, hot chili makes me go `ding' all
> over.
> 
> Yup, it all adds up.

It *does* add up in a scary sort of way...  :-)

-- 
  "Yes.  The journey through the human heart 
     would have to wait until some other time."

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[luis fernandes]

>>>>> "mmp" == Matt Pharr <mmp@graphics.stanford.edu> writes:

    > Lutefisk Gnus! 

In keeping with the nautical theme, I vote for Babelfish Gnus (from
_Hitch-hikers Guide to the Galaxy_) and it somehow feels cosmically
appropriate.

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Eric Hendrickson]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:

> Yup.  The standard message is very non-confrontational.  It should
> perhaps include an URL of a document that states more fully why
> massive crossposting is a bad idea.  Does anybody have an URL of a
> nice, comprehensible Nettiquette thingie?

Maybe just

http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p=netiquette

?  :)

		--eric
-- 
The grand leap of the whale up the Fall of Niagara is esteemed, by all
who have seen it, as one of the finest spectacles in nature.
		-- Benjamin Franklin.

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Per Abrahamsen]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:

> Does anybody have an URL of a
> nice, comprehensible Nettiquette thingie?

RFC 1855.

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[William Perry]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes:
>Nathanael Makarevitch <Nathanael.Makarevitch@ifp.fr> writes:
>
>>  Lars> Banana Gnus, Potato Gnus, Apple Gnus, Orange Gnus, Pepper Gnus, Pear
>>  Lars> Gnus, Cucumber  Gnus and Radish  Gnus all lack a certain jennesequa.
>> 
>> ROTFL :-))
>> this is the phonetic form of the french "je ne sais quoi" which is,
>> litteraly "I do not know what" meaning exactly what you did intend.
>
>:-)  Yes, I know.  I think the spelling "jennesequa" has a certain,
>uhm, jeg vet ikke helt hva.
>
>> "nannies for newsgroups" is a good idea but I think that some people
>> will think, if they receive only one message, that its states a non
>> standard opinion.
>> success also depends upon the form (friendliness and clarity) of your std
>> message.
>
>Yup.  The standard message is very non-confrontational.  It should
>perhaps include an URL of a document that states more fully why
>massive crossposting is a bad idea.  Does anybody have an URL of a
>nice, comprehensible Nettiquette thingie?
>
>>  Lars> I'm still open to suggestions, though.  It's not too late to prevent
>>  Lars> this!  Yet!
>> 
>> here is mine: "jennesequa" :-))
>
>"Jennesequa Gnus" does have a certain, well, I don't know what...  :-)

  JenneseGnu

-Bill P.

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Steven L Baur]

>>>>> "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:
>>>>> "Jack" == Jack Vinson <jvinson@cheux.ecs.umass.edu> writes:

Jack> What about "Relish Gnus."  It can take on several meanings.  :-)

Lars> Yes, it sounds nice...  What is "relish", though?  Sounds kinda salady
Lars> to me, but I can't quite remember what it is exactly...

Yucky salady stuff usually put on Hot Dogs and Hamburgers.

I liked Mango Gnus.
-- 
steve@miranova.com baur
Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be billed at $250/message.
What are the last two letters of "doesn't" and "can't"?
Coincidence?  I think not.

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Ed Donovan]

I see that Mango has gotten some support, and I'm not a'gin it, but ooh,
Kiwi Gnus really gets me.  Kiwi!  Kiwi!  Kiwi!  Mmm, that's fun.  

Thank you,

-- 
Ed Donovan				edonovan@world.std.com

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Ed Donovan <edonovan@world.std.com> writes:

> I see that Mango has gotten some support, and I'm not a'gin it, but ooh,
> Kiwi Gnus really gets me.  Kiwi!  Kiwi!  Kiwi!  Mmm, that's fun.  

:-)

Wouldn't people think it was an Aotearoan version of Gnus, though?
What with the kiwi being the national bird of New Zealand?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Andy Eskilsson]

/ elf@ee.ryerson.ca (luis fernandes) wrote:
| 
| >>>>> "mmp" == Matt Pharr <mmp@graphics.stanford.edu> writes:
| 
|     > Lutefisk Gnus! 
| 
| In keeping with the nautical theme, I vote for Babelfish Gnus (from
| _Hitch-hikers Guide to the Galaxy_) and it somehow feels cosmically
| appropriate.
| 

Good idea, and then we have the design for the frontpage of the
manu/logo, a big button with the text PANIC! or so :-)

	/Andy


-- 
 Hi I am an alien .sig, and at the moment I am having sex to your
 mind, by looking at your smile I can see that you like it.

 Unsolicited commercial email is subject to an archival fee of $400.
 See <http://www.fukt.hk-r.se/~flognat/mail/> for more info.

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Lars Balker Rasmussen <gnort@daimi.aau.dk>:

> (What's next, Tequila Gnus?)

Aquavit Gnus?  Uisghe Beatha Gnus?

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Matt Pharr <mmp@graphics.stanford.edu>:

> Lutefisk Gnus! Sure it's fish and not vegitable, but it's exotic yet
> boring and Norwegian...

Don't *do* this!  You bring up bad childhood christmas memories!

> If that doesn't fly, I vote mango.

Go Mango!

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> You wrote:

>> "Jennesequa Gnus" does have a certain, well, I don't know what...
>> :-)

>   JenneseGnu

I kinda like that.  But "JenneseGnus" loses the meaning, and
"JenneseGnu Gnus" is kinda... too much, like.

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Lars Balker Rasmussen]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:
> Jack Vinson <jvinson@cheux.ecs.umass.edu> writes:
> > What about "Relish Gnus."  It can take on several meanings.  :-)
> 
> Yes, it sounds nice...  What is "relish", though?  Sounds kinda salady
> to me, but I can't quite remember what it is exactly...

Radish Gnus?
-- 
Lars Balker Rasmussen                                           - Duck!
<URL:http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~gnort/>                           - Where!?

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Jack Vinson]

>>>>> "LMI" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:

LMI> Jack Vinson <jvinson@cheux.ecs.umass.edu> writes:
>> What about "Relish Gnus."  It can take on several meanings.  :-)

LMI> Yes, it sounds nice...  What is "relish", though?  Sounds kinda salady
LMI> to me, but I can't quite remember what it is exactly...

Just asked my office-mate.  The noun is chopped up pickles that usually
ends up on hot dogs / frankfurters / wieners in the United States.  It
probably shows up on hamburgers too.  One frequently sees it in the
supermarket as a mass of green stuff.

The verb, of course, is what I had in mind for the second meaning.  "I
relish using Gnus as it is far superior to other news readers."  "I relish
the news I read with Gnus."


-- 
   (      "Mmmmmm - coffee"               (   
   ))     Jack Vinson                     ))  
 C|~~|    jvinson@cheux.ecs.umass.edu   C|~~| 
  `--'                                   `--' 

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Richard Pieri]

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>>>>> "SB" == Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> writes:

SB> I kinda like that.  But "JenneseGnus" loses the meaning, and
SB> "JenneseGnu Gnus" is kinda... too much, like.

But it is still pronounced "jennesequa Gnus", so it works.

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-- 
Richard Pieri/Information Services \ When in doubt, cop an attitude. -A cat's
<ratinox@unilab.dfci.harvard.edu>   \ guide to life
http://www.dfci.harvard.edu/         \ 

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Ken Raeburn]

> > Banana Gnus, Potato Gnus, Apple Gnus, Orange Gnus, Pepper Gnus,
> > Pear Gnus, Cucumber Gnus and Radish Gnus all lack a certain
> > jennesequa.  
> I'm partial to Potato Gnus.  Has a nice, boring, Norwegian, down to
> earth feel to it.

I kinda like it too.

Actually, I'm more partial to Cucumber Gnus, as I told Lars, but we'd
need to come up with a few good punchlines for "cucumber gnus is
better than man(1)" jokes.  Or something.  (Lars gets the, uh, credit,
for the man(1) reference -- I didn't make the leap from "a man" or
"men" to the UNIX utility.  Guess I'm being slow.  And I still haven't
thought up any good punchlines....)

Ken

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Ken Raeburn <raeburn@cygnus.com> writes:

> Actually, I'm more partial to Cucumber Gnus, as I told Lars, but we'd
> need to come up with a few good punchlines for "cucumber gnus is
> better than man(1)" jokes.  Or something.  (Lars gets the, uh, credit,
> for the man(1) reference -- I didn't make the leap from "a man" or
> "men" to the UNIX utility.

Hey, you forgot the double entendre of the word "tool" -- "Cucumber
Gnus is a better tool than a man(1)."  :-)

Think I could get a job writing "jokes" for Benny Hill?  Huh?  I
probably cringe too much, though.

-- 
  "Yes.  The journey through the human heart 
     would have to wait until some other time."

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Jason L Tibbitts III]

>>>>> "LMI" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:

LMI> Hey, you forgot the double entendre of the word "tool" -- "Cucumber
LMI> Gnus is a better tool than a man(1)."  :-)

Now will someone write an nnman backend that lets you browse a tree of
manpages as if they were news?  That way at least the statement would be
true.

(I'm at least half serious.)
-- 
      Jason L. Tibbitts III - tibbs@uh.edu - 713/743-8684 - 221SR1
System Manager:  University of Houston High Performance Computing Center
                1994 PC800 "Kuroneko"      DoD# 1723

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Ken Raeburn]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:

> Hey, you forgot the double entendre of the word "tool" -- "Cucumber
> Gnus is a better tool than a man(1)."  :-)

Oops.  I missed that completely!

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Ed Donovan]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes:
 > Ed Donovan <edonovan@world.std.com> writes:
 > 
 > > I see that Mango has gotten some support, and I'm not a'gin it, but ooh,
 > > Kiwi Gnus really gets me.  Kiwi!  Kiwi!  Kiwi!  Mmm, that's fun.  
 > 
 > :-)
 > 
 > Wouldn't people think it was an Aotearoan version of Gnus, though?
 > What with the kiwi being the national bird of New Zealand?
 > 

(Stunned, reeling from the verbal impact--Lars's Vocabulary hits!)

Whoa...well, maybe.  Perhaps that's exactly what they'd say.

   "Oh, look, dear, Kiwi Gnus!"
   							
   "Well, yes, pet, but isn't that rather more for our Aotearoan
   friends?  Not Our Sort of Thing, you know."
   							
   (Sighing) "Yes, I suppose you're right.  Still, it seemed quite nice.
   I might have whipped you up a spot of it on Sundays."

But I think it's no less potentially misunderstood than September or Red
("Comrade!  How goes the People's glorious newsreading struggle?  Still
on the five-year plan?"), and I like those, too.  C'mon, admit it.  And,
furthermore, I submit to you, "Kiwi! Kiwi! Kiwi!"  The nonsense rests.

I know I'm running behind the list's pace here, but, man, 'Aotearoan,' I
spent half today just trying to pronounce that.  Hey!  (squints
accusingly) I bet you got that off Janet Frame, didn't you?  Look, I
live for Faulkner, but you don't see me using...well...well, I can't
even think of a good one, see!  (Great, what have _I_ just
demonstrated?...)

Sigh--I almost promise the next mail I send to the list will be
on-topic, actual content--unless, of course, someone else continues this
foolery...

Yours in shame,

-- 

Ed Donovan			edonovan@world.std.com

Vegetable Gnus (was: Message buffers associated with files?)

[Jost Krieger]

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I know it's a bit late ...

Guess what I found in the cellar the other day ?

A glass of "Mild Chili Relish" ! (No Gnus on it, unfortunately.)

Perhaps we should go for "Mild Gnus"
or was that "Wild Gnus" ?

Lars, have you fixed the name yet ?

Jost

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--
Jost Krieger, Postmaster, Rechenzentrum der Ruhr-Universität Bochum
Jost.Krieger@rz.ruhr-uni-bochum.de

Re: Vegetable Gnus (was: Message buffers associated with files?)

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Jost Krieger <Jost.Krieger@rz.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:

> Lars, have you fixed the name yet ?

Nope.  "Mango Gnus" seems to be the current favourite, but the capital
"M" looks kinda square, in a way...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen

Re: Vegetable Gnus (was: Message buffers associated with files?)

[Robert Pluim]

>>>>> "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:

    Lars> Nope.  "Mango Gnus" seems to be the current favourite, but
    Lars> the capital "M" looks kinda square, in a way...

How about "Tango Gnus", as in "You've been Tangoed" or even "You've
been Tangnused". <groans at own pun> I'm sorry, I think I've been
staring at a screen for too long. Why am I even getting involved in
this discussion? Goodbye Cruel World <bang> :-)

Robert

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Jason L Tibbitts III <tibbs@hpc.uh.edu> writes:

> Now will someone write an nnman backend that lets you browse a tree of
> manpages as if they were news?  That way at least the statement would be
> true.
> 
> (I'm at least half serious.)

Well -- manual pages aren't particularly message-like.  New manual
pages seldom appear, and it isn't really interesting to mark read
manual pages in any way, so I don't think an nnman backend would make
much sense.

-- 
  "Yes.  The journey through the human heart 
     would have to wait until some other time."

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Steven L Baur]

>>>>> "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:
>>>>> "Jason" == Jason L Tibbitts III <tibbs@hpc.uh.edu> writes:

Jason> Now will someone write an nnman backend that lets you browse a
Jason> tree of manpages as if they were news?  That way at least the
Jason> statement would be true.

I like this idea.

Lars> Well -- manual pages aren't particularly message-like.  New manual
Lars> pages seldom appear,

Not on a Linux system.  I'm installing new software constantly. :-)

Lars> and it isn't really interesting to mark read manual pages in any
Lars> way, so I don't think an nnman backend would make much sense.

Sometime this is going to have to be reconciled.  Mail archives can be
very useful;  there is utility in rereading old messages.

Two things Gnus mail still needs are more convenient access to saved
material and drafts (the only MH feature I still miss).
-- 
steve@miranova.com baur
Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be billed at $250/message.
What are the last two letters of "doesn't" and "can't"?
Coincidence?  I think not.

Re: Vegetable Gnus (was: Message buffers associated with files?)

[Steven L Baur]

>>>>> "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:

> Jost Krieger <Jost.Krieger@rz.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:
> Lars, have you fixed the name yet ?

Lars> Nope.  "Mango Gnus" seems to be the current favourite, but the
Lars> capital "M" looks kinda square, in a way...

Then use a different font for it.  Surely `M' is not square in every
font.  It doesn't look very square in italics, for example.
-- 
steve@miranova.com baur
Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be billed at $250/message.
What are the last two letters of "doesn't" and "can't"?
Coincidence?  I think not.

Re: Vegetable Gnus (was: Message buffers associated with files?)

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Steven L Baur <steve@miranova.com> writes:

> Lars> Nope.  "Mango Gnus" seems to be the current favourite, but the
> Lars> capital "M" looks kinda square, in a way...
> 
> Then use a different font for it.  Surely `M' is not square in every
> font.  It doesn't look very square in italics, for example.

Hm...  How do I specify that the "M" in "Mango" should be italic when
you read this?  :-)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen

Re: Vegetable Gnus (was: Message buffers associated with files?)

[William Perry]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes:
>Steven L Baur <steve@miranova.com> writes:
>
>> Lars> Nope.  "Mango Gnus" seems to be the current favourite, but the
>> Lars> capital "M" looks kinda square, in a way...
>> 
>> Then use a different font for it.  Surely `M' is not square in every
>> font.  It doesn't look very square in italics, for example.
>
>Hm...  How do I specify that the "M" in "Mango" should be italic when
>you read this?  :-)

  <i>M</i>ango Gnus, with a suitable content-type.  Uhhh - you _ARE_ going
to integrate a MIME tool for Mango Gnus, right?

-Bill P.

Re: Vegetable Gnus (was: Message buffers associated with files?)

[Steven L Baur]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/richtext, Size: 382 bytes --]


>>>>> "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:

Steven L Baur <steve@miranova.com> writes:

sb> Then use a different font for it.  Surely `M' is not square in every

sb> font.  It doesn't look very square in italics, for example.



Lars> Hm...  How do I specify that the "M" in "Mango" should be italic when

Lars> you read this?  :-)

Welcome to Mango Gnus!


[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 272 bytes --]

Hopefully this comes out right.  I do not like the current interaction
between tm and enriched.el.
-- 
steve@miranova.com baur
Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be billed at $250/message.
What are the last two letters of "doesn't" and "can't"?
Coincidence?  I think not.

Re: Vegetable Gnus (was: Message buffers associated with files?)

[Steven L Baur]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 171 bytes --]

>>>>> "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:

Lars> Hm...  How do I specify that the "M" in "Mango" should be italic when
Lars> you read this?  :-)


[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/enriched, Size: 32 bytes --]



<italic>M</italic>ango Gnus.


[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 174 bytes --]


-- 
steve@miranova.com baur
Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be billed at $250/message.
What are the last two letters of "doesn't" and "can't"?
Coincidence?  I think not.

Re: Vegetable Gnus (was: Message buffers associated with files?)

[Per Abrahamsen]

;; From my .gnus file:

(add-hook 'gnus-article-display-hook 'article-mango)

(defun article-mango ()
  "Make sure Mango is displayed properly."
  (interactive)
  (save-excursion
    (let ((buffer-read-only nil))
      (goto-char (point-min))
      (while (re-search-forward "\\<Mango\\>" nil t)
	(put-text-property (- (point) 5) (- (point) 4) 'face 'italic)))))

Re: Vegetable Gnus (was: Message buffers associated with files?)

[Lars Balker Rasmussen]

;; Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk> writes:
;;; ;; From my .gnus file:
;;; 
;;; (add-hook 'gnus-article-display-hook 'article-mango)
;;;
;;; (defun article-mango ()
;;;   "Make sure Mango is displayed properly."
;;;   (interactive)
;;;   (save-excursion
;;;     (let ((buffer-read-only nil))
;;;       (goto-char (point-min))
;;;       (while (re-search-forward "\\<Mango\\>" nil t)
;;; 	(put-text-property (- (point) 5) (- (point) 4) 'face 'italic)))))

;; But Per!  You also have this in your .emacs!
;;
;; Use grey for italic, as the fixed font doesn't have italic!
(set-face-foreground 'italic "grey60")
(set-face-foreground 'bold-italic "grey60")
(condition-case nil
    (make-face-bold 'bold-italic)
  (error))

;; (grey M)ango looks silly :-)
;; as does legal lisp-code posts
-- 
Lars Balker Rasmussen                                           - Duck!
<URL:http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~gnort/>                           - Where!?

Re: Vegetable Gnus (was: Message buffers associated with files?)

[Hans de Graaff]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:

> > Lars, have you fixed the name yet ?
> 
> Nope.  "Mango Gnus" seems to be the current favourite, but the capital
> "M" looks kinda square, in a way...

I simply don't understand how everybody in this threat seems to miss
one important yet simple requirement for the new name. Remember, we
had September, the Red, so, obviously, now we have to get something
starting with a Q.

A fruit with a Q. Hmm.

Quassia has a nice ring to it, though not strictly a fruit or
something. Quassia Gnus.

Hans

Re: Vegetable Gnus (was: Message buffers associated with files?)

[Kevin.Christian]

I say we skip the Q and go directly to P. Passion fruit Gnus or 
Passion Gnus for short. Don't like it? How about Pomarosa Gnus.

Kevin

In message <yahlodxmsx6.fsf@twi.tudelft.nl>, Hans de Graaff writes:
> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:
> 
> > > Lars, have you fixed the name yet ?
> > 
> > Nope.  "Mango Gnus" seems to be the current favourite, but the capital
> > "M" looks kinda square, in a way...
> 
> I simply don't understand how everybody in this threat seems to miss
> one important yet simple requirement for the new name. Remember, we
> had September, the Red, so, obviously, now we have to get something
> starting with a Q.
> 
> A fruit with a Q. Hmm.
> 
> Quassia has a nice ring to it, though not strictly a fruit or
> something. Quassia Gnus.
> 
> Hans

Re: Vegetable Gnus (was: Message buffers associated with files?)

[Lars Balker Rasmussen]

Kevin.Christian@symbios.com writes:
> I say we skip the Q and go directly to P. Passion fruit Gnus or 
> Passion Gnus for short. Don't like it? How about Pomarosa Gnus.

Potato Gnus.  Deja vu.
-- 
Lars Balker Rasmussen                                           - Duck!
<URL:http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~gnort/>                           - Where!?

Re: Vegetable Gnus (was: Message buffers associated with files?)

[Brent B. Powers]

Hans de Graaff writes:
 > From: Hans de Graaff <J.J.deGraaff@twi.tudelft.nl>
 > To: ding@ifi.uio.no
 > Subject: Re: Vegetable Gnus (was: Message buffers associated with files?)
 > Date: 26 Sep 1996 13:12:21 +0200
 > 
 > Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:
 > 
 > > > Lars, have you fixed the name yet ?
 > > 
 > > Nope.  "Mango Gnus" seems to be the current favourite, but the capital
 > > "M" looks kinda square, in a way...
 > 
 > I simply don't understand how everybody in this threat seems to miss
 > one important yet simple requirement for the new name. Remember, we
 > had September, the Red, so, obviously, now we have to get something
 > starting with a Q.
 > 
 > A fruit with a Q. Hmm.

Quince?  (If you make jam from a quince, which is somewhat fig-like,
you get something tasting a bit like apple butter... I'm not sure if
you're worse off or better off at that point)

 > 
 > Quassia has a nice ring to it, though not strictly a fruit or
 > something. Quassia Gnus.
 > 
 > Hans

Re: Vegetable Gnus (was: Message buffers associated with files?)

[Per Abrahamsen]

>>>>> "LBR" == Lars Balker Rasmussen <gnort@daimi.aau.dk> writes:

LBR> Potato Gnus.  Deja vu.

Deja Gnus has been suggested before, but I guess it is simply one of
those proposals we will see again and again.


 

Re: Vegetable Gnus (was: Message buffers associated with files?)

[C. R. Oldham]

On Thu, 26 Sep 1996 Kevin.Christian@symbios.com wrote:

> I say we skip the Q and go directly to P. Passion fruit Gnus or 
> Passion Gnus for short. Don't like it? How about Pomarosa Gnus.

Pomegrenate Gnus.

This discussion has now officially degenerated.  Don't we all have better
things to do?  Oops, dumb question--there is nothing better than reading
Gnus.

--
| Charles R. (C. R.) Oldham     |         NCA Commission on Schools  |
| cro@nca.asu.edu               |  Arizona St. Univ., PO Box 873011  |
| V:602/965-8700 F:602/965-9423 |________      Tempe, AZ 85287-3011_ |
| "Of course--a child could do it!"-McCoy| #include <disclaimer.h>X_>|

Re: Vegetable Gnus (was: Message buffers associated with files?)

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Hans de Graaff <J.J.deGraaff@twi.tudelft.nl> writes:

> I simply don't understand how everybody in this threat seems to miss
> one important yet simple requirement for the new name. Remember, we
> had September, the Red, so, obviously, now we have to get something
> starting with a Q.

I see that you conveniently forgot about (ding) Gnus.  :-)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Usenet news]

.com> <x63f0cwd3n.fsf@eyesore.no> <ufau3ssffup.fsf@sina.hpc.uh.edu> <x67mpjddor.fsf@eyesore.no>
From: Paul Franklin <paul@cs.washington.edu>
Date: 26 Sep 1996 22:23:22 -0700
Message-ID: <r9qenjobkfp.fsf@fester.cs.washington.edu>
Organization: Computer Science, U of Washington, Seattle, WA, USA
Lines: 66
X-Newsreader: Red Gnus v0.34/Emacs 19.34
Path: fester.cs.washington.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: fester.cs.washington.edu

>>>>> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes:

 > Well -- manual pages aren't particularly message-like.  New manual
 > pages seldom appear, and it isn't really interesting to mark read
 > manual pages in any way, so I don't think an nnman backend would make
 > much sense.

This is the problem I ran into when I was contemplating writing
nngnats, and all of the time I had slated to actually write it went
into discovering how these models don't match.  :)  (And now I've
left my summer job and don't use nngnats anymore.  But now I'm really
wanting imap stuff again.  Sigh.)

The issues with nngnats are even more difficult--files change, and you
want to notice when they do.  Not only can the content change, but the
status can change as well--essentially, the back end wants to keep
track of some of the flags.  And some files you want to see again
whenever they change, while others you don't want to see again.  This
could be done through scoring, but the ideal thing would be to
redefine dormancy as articles which magically become either unread or
ticked when they change.  (This works well with gnats, since you
should never have followups; you just keep adding to the same
document.)

So here's my wish list for backend capabilities needed by nngnats
(which should be a superset of those needed for a nice nnman):

* Backends can affect the marks of articles.  Hmm.  Looks like this is
  now possible by coding nngnats-request-update-info.  This would be
  the time to awake dormant articles when they've changed.

* Backends can contribute additional fields.  Users can limit by these
  fields, possibly through a special '/' command which prompts you for
  a backend-specific field name.  Users can also score on these
  fields.  (For nngnats, this would include responsible person,
  severity, priority, ...)

* Backends can have persistent, internal state.  For nngnats, this
  would be the last mod date of the gnats report, and possibly 1-2
  other things so the files don't have to be scanned every time.  (Or
  maybe this should go into files in a directory specified by a server
  parameter.  It can't go into a gnats or man dir, since they're
  shared dirs.)  For nnman, this would be the article numbers of man
  pages.  (Hmm.  Pretty soon, we'll have a .gnus directory for all of
  this stuff.)

* Backends should be able to reject incorrectly-formatted messages in
  -request-replace-article and -request-accept-article, probably via a
  return value.  This would allow someone to submit or edit problem
  reports from gnus with appropriate checks in place.

* Backends should be able to lock files for editing, if that's
  necessary.  (I'm not sure if nngnats actually needs it, but it seems
  really useful.)

Hmm.  We're closer than I thought.  One has been addressed, and one
has an alternative I hadn't thought of earlier which probably is
better anyways.

(For the record, someone else wanted nngnats groups to be basically
query parameters for querypr.  My personal opinion is that gnus'
scoring and limiting mechanisms can deal with this quite adequately.
And I wanted to read the gnats list of bug reports directly, so I
could base the active file on it.)

--Paul

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Scott Blachowicz]

> The issues with nngnats are even more difficult--files change, and you
> want to notice when they do.  Not only can the content change, but the
> status can change as well--essentially, the back end wants to keep
> track of some of the flags.  And some files you want to see again
> whenever they change, while others you don't want to see again.  This
> could be done through scoring, but the ideal thing would be to
> redefine dormancy as articles which magically become either unread or
> ticked when they change.  (This works well with gnats, since you
> should never have followups; you just keep adding to the same
> document.)

Another [probably full of holes] approach could be to have things like
file update time used to synthesize a "message-id" for the files. That
way, if the file changes, its message-id changes and it becomes a "new
message" as far as a news reader is concerned. Maybe there could be some
smarts in there to consider all revisions of the same file as part of the
same thread? Hmmm...I suppose that also means an automatic "cancel" on the
previous "message-id" too.

Just some thought/brick-bat fodder...

Scott Blachowicz  Ph: 206/283-8802x240   Mathsoft (Data Analysis Products Div)
                                         1700 Westlake Ave N #500
scott@statsci.com                        Seattle, WA USA   98109
Scott.Blachowicz@seaslug.org

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Usenet news <news@sunsite.auc.dk> channeling Paul Franklin writes:

> So here's my wish list for backend capabilities needed by nngnats
> (which should be a superset of those needed for a nice nnman):
> 
> * Backends can affect the marks of articles.  Hmm.  Looks like this is
>   now possible by coding nngnats-request-update-info.  This would be
>   the time to awake dormant articles when they've changed.

Yup.

> * Backends can contribute additional fields.  Users can limit by these
>   fields, possibly through a special '/' command which prompts you for
>   a backend-specific field name.  Users can also score on these
>   fields.  (For nngnats, this would include responsible person,
>   severity, priority, ...)

Yes, this is very important, but I haven't made any progress here,
I'm afraid.  It's on that todo list, though.

> * Backends can have persistent, internal state.  For nngnats, this
>   would be the last mod date of the gnats report, and possibly 1-2
>   other things so the files don't have to be scanned every time.  (Or
>   maybe this should go into files in a directory specified by a server
>   parameter.  It can't go into a gnats or man dir, since they're
>   shared dirs.)  For nnman, this would be the article numbers of man
>   pages.  (Hmm.  Pretty soon, we'll have a .gnus directory for all of
>   this stuff.)

Quite a few of the backends store data to keep a consistant internal
state.  The latest is nnweb, which creates an URL<->article number
mapping and stores that to be able to number things properly.

> * Backends should be able to reject incorrectly-formatted messages in
>   -request-replace-article and -request-accept-article, probably via a
>   return value.  This would allow someone to submit or edit problem
>   reports from gnus with appropriate checks in place.

This is possible -- if the backend returns nil for these functions,
the replacement is aborted.

> * Backends should be able to lock files for editing, if that's
>   necessary.  (I'm not sure if nngnats actually needs it, but it seems
>   really useful.)

I don't think there's any file locking in Emacs currently, but it
would be useful.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Paul Franklin]

BTW, Lars, for the record, gnus5 has substantially increase the amount
of time I spend hacking elisp code.  I'm not sure whether that's a
good thing or not.  But it is fun.

>>>>> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes:

 > Usenet news <news@sunsite.auc.dk> channeling Paul Franklin writes:

 >> * Backends should be able to reject incorrectly-formatted messages in
 >>   -request-replace-article and -request-accept-article, probably via a
 >>   return value.  This would allow someone to submit or edit problem
 >>   reports from gnus with appropriate checks in place.

 > This is possible -- if the backend returns nil for these functions,
 > the replacement is aborted.

Cool!  I didn't find this in the docs, but I may not have the latest
rev.  In my version, this option isn't mentioned for
-request-accept-article, and the docs for -request-replace-article,
-request-delete-group, and -request-rename-group don't mention return
values.

 >> * Backends should be able to lock files for editing, if that's
 >>   necessary.  (I'm not sure if nngnats actually needs it, but it seems
 >>   really useful.)

 > I don't think there's any file locking in Emacs currently, but it
 > would be useful.

This wasn't quite what I was thinking of.  If I recall correctly,
editpr in gnats implements some sort of file locking.  I'd like to use
that mechanism to restrict editing nngnats messages.  Since
-request-replace-article is presumably called when an edit finishes, I
just need to know when an edit starts or is cancelled (including
killing the edit buffer).

This may be particular enough to nngnats that it should maybe wait
until there's someone to actually code it though, since I'm no longer
a gnats user.

--Paul

Re: Message buffers associated with files?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Paul Franklin <paul@cs.washington.edu> writes:

> Cool!  I didn't find this in the docs, but I may not have the latest
> rev.  In my version, this option isn't mentioned for
> -request-accept-article, and the docs for -request-replace-article,
> -request-delete-group, and -request-rename-group don't mention return
> values.

I think this is only mentioned one place -- in the "Backend Interface"
section:

   Functions that fail should return `nil' as the return value.

> This wasn't quite what I was thinking of.  If I recall correctly,
> editpr in gnats implements some sort of file locking.  I'd like to use
> that mechanism to restrict editing nngnats messages.  Since
> -request-replace-article is presumably called when an edit finishes, I
> just need to know when an edit starts or is cancelled (including
> killing the edit buffer).

Ah, right.  I could add a new backend function --
`nn*-request-lock-article' (or something) if you think that's
required.  (We'd also need `nn*-request-release-article', I guess.)

-- 
  "Yes.  The journey through the human heart 
     would have to wait until some other time."

Manual generation problem with 0.48

[C. R. Oldham]

Lars,

I tried to generate a copy of the Red Gnus manual today, and got a .dvi
file that only had the message manual in it.  Did I do something wrong?

--
| Charles R. (C. R.) Oldham     |         NCA Commission on Schools  |
| cro@nca.asu.edu               |  Arizona St. Univ., PO Box 873011  |
| V:602/965-8700 F:602/965-9423 |________      Tempe, AZ 85287-3011_ |
| "Of course--a child could do it!"-McCoy| #include <disclaimer.h>X_>|